| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Enough is enough Thread poster: Nikki Scott-Despaigne
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| For the record, setting things straight a little | Aug 13, 2015 |
The intention behind this post is not for me complain about how few jobs I have had via the ProZ job system. I was using the fact that I have obtained none that way myself as a springboard for opening a discussion/review on the overall efficacy of the system. This is a forum so it is not going to be a very scientific survey of the system's efficacy.
For the record, I work with direct clients only. I accept what any self-employed individual has to accept, namely that the flow of wor... See more The intention behind this post is not for me complain about how few jobs I have had via the ProZ job system. I was using the fact that I have obtained none that way myself as a springboard for opening a discussion/review on the overall efficacy of the system. This is a forum so it is not going to be a very scientific survey of the system's efficacy.
For the record, I work with direct clients only. I accept what any self-employed individual has to accept, namely that the flow of work is irregular. I am also naturally extremely curious. The ProZ job system is something I was curious about when it was set up. Every now and again I would like to imagine it presenting new opportunities for me. That is not the case. Also for the record, I have been translating professionally since 1994. I joined ProZ in 2003. My activity on ProZ has brought me into contact with many individuals and continues to do so. That is already a great return on the “investment” of time spent on ProZ. Indeed, some of my fellow Prozers have become clients, some colleagues and others friends. Some are all three!
On the subject of investment, well, don’t worry. I do understand quite a lot about investment of time and money in order to create, build and sustain my business activity. The amount of time and money invested directly and indirectly in my business activity has been, is and will continue to be important. Like any serious professional, investment is something I take seriously. Here are just a few investments made since 1994 and which many (most?) of us will invest in and so I imagine I’m not giving any trade secrets away here. Many of these go without saying, but I’m saying them anyway: computers etc., software, travel to meet existing and potential clients, attendance at conferences (to keep up to date with events in my fields, but also to observe and meet potential clients), regular purchases of books, subscriptions, training, on-the-job first-hand experience as an employee, degrees, certificates (real life attendance, distance and MOOC), renting an office to keep business and family apart. If I reckoned a USD 300-1000 CAT tool would help, I think I’ve made my point that I’d make no bones about getting one. I reckon that most of us invest quite heavily directly or indirectly in what we do.
CAT tools are costly, and helpful for many. It depends on the type of work you do. Good tools are expensive. They always have been and always will be. You get what you pay for. I know there are a couple of fairly basic, inexpensive and quite helpful tools out there too. I have actually been to one or two brief and basic CAT training courses. So I am an informed individual and I chose not to invest in something I don't need and will not use. For me, it would be a waste of money, a poor investment. For translators who do use CAT tools, then go for it! I do actually support the idea that such an investment should be applauded. Technology at the service of mankind and not mankind as a slave to the machine! So if it is of use for you, I’m behind you all the way. Where I do jump of the train though is when agents boast to clients on the one hand, that they will get precision and consistency as their freelancers use CAT tools, whilst imposing discounted rates for freelancers doing the work. In a nutshell, CAT tools are often used by agents to pay the freelancer less, whilst maintaining (or even increasing) rates with their clients.
I do understand that agents have a job to do and also that if a CAT tool really does bring in more work, then the cost of purchase can be written off pretty quickly.
Back to the case in point. ProZ is quite an incredible tool. It is highly beneficial to me and I enjoy contributing. As a freelancer, with direct clients and registered with one agency only (who has yet to contact me with a job), I’m nevertheless always open to new sources of work. I think we all have to be. It makes commercial sense. My best direct clients are people I’ve been working with for more than 10 years. I’m only interested in good new clients. I used to think I couldn’t afford to choose. I now know I can’t afford not to!
Therefore I remain curious about the ProZ job system as a potential source. I hope that those who pay membership do get the jobs and that the rates are close to market rates for where you are based. All I can say is that rates for the “open” jobs, always at less than 40% of the get-out-of-bed rate are simply not serious offers for serious translators where I am based. They are generally not the sort of client I can afford. That’s all I was saying folks. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Your comment says it all. Couldnt agree more | Aug 13, 2015 |
The kudoz and gloss are full of errors. Askers are ignorant and they dont do enough research to begin with so it became like this. Not to mention there are cases of bands trying to increase points for their own members.
I dont know what to say when I set my rate to community rate Proz suggests and outsourers get back to me saying my rate is extremely high and if I want to work for them, lower my rate because other give them lower rate. Certainly I cant pay for membership if things ... See more The kudoz and gloss are full of errors. Askers are ignorant and they dont do enough research to begin with so it became like this. Not to mention there are cases of bands trying to increase points for their own members.
I dont know what to say when I set my rate to community rate Proz suggests and outsourers get back to me saying my rate is extremely high and if I want to work for them, lower my rate because other give them lower rate. Certainly I cant pay for membership if things are going like this.
writeaway wrote: Robert Rietvelt wrote:
I thought Proz was a portal for professionals in the translation industry, not for moonshiners and cheap "BS" agencies. Built in a minimum level, so that not every fool who think he/she is a translator or an agency who is out to "rob" you has access to it.
Lets bring this platform back to where it was intended for: For professionals!
When I joined Proz in 2002, I discovered a site for pro translators. People were very enthusiastic and proud about their very own site (until Proz, translating from home was a very isolated job) and defended it against wannabee or lazy translators who bothered others with terms found in any dictionary. Comments like "this is a site for pros", "someone please by xx a dictionary for Christmas", "give the job to someone who can actually do it" etc were common. That was Proz. But times have changed and sometime in 2005/2006, Proz moved the goalposts and became a site "with" pro translators and not a site exclusively "for" pros. It was a super business move because membership numbers have exploded ever since the rulez forbid any comment at all about a term posted, about a (wrong) answer chosen, about a misleading glossary entry etc. Want to be a translator? Simple. Sign up on Proz and it's a done deal. List whatever native language(s) you wish, invent a glorious profile page: no rules against lying. Just do it. I don't see any restrictions or serious qualifications being introduced. Proz is a huge and very successful commercial enterprise that exists and lives from the www. It's true that since the shift in emphasis, a lot of early members have left or no longer participate. But the membership vacuum has been filled by newbies and others who want to start working in translation. And Proz is the place to start. ▲ Collapse
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Paulinho Fonseca wrote: Hi Nikki, there are times everyone has got reasons to stop and reflect on the things they have made so far, but not to end up when there are still many things/options on the go. I have been on Proz for 4 years and at first my impression was that it was again paying for something else and not getting any benefits and it was indeed, but that was mostly on y side. I subscribed and expected things would happen, I am not saying this is your case. The idea is just to illustrate how we expect life to be; and after sometime, during a training session, I found out that the idea is not simply to be born; we gotta walk, move, talk, travel, meet, speak, walk the talk, study, specialize, value ourselves, etc. To curt the long story short: I had tiny jobs, small jobs, loads of agencies offering peanuts (some I refused, I had some 'bread' at home and I could refuse it, others I accepted and felt very frustrated, that reminded me of my University project, based on the life of a professional translator, where I pointed out how competition can turn into an unfair and nasty breadwinning thing). I still work for agencies on a negotiable basis and have got my prime clients (70%) found me on Proz. I am not a propaganda guy here. I have a friend in Scotland that once said: "Wow! This is a massive website (Proz)", and after sometime I got it right. Someone, anywhere in the world, will soon look for translators specialized in any field and your profile won't be found. Don't give up! 
I think I probably didn't make myself clear in my initial post. Maybe my second post clarifies things a little. I'm a pro-Proz fan, otherwise I wouldn't be here. But don't worry, I don't expect anything to fall into my hands. I never have, never will. I've been in this business for more than 20 years so I have learnt a fair bit about what does not work for me and what works well.
My clients are mainly people who have come to me through word of mouth. They account for maybe two-thirds of my client base. I started out as businesses were contacting me to work for them. The other third comes esssentially from having done extensive research and contacted the client myself, often also meeting them professionally. I am quite aware that a small or pro bono piece today would be a big and/or regular soruce of work tomorrow. Much of my work has started that way.
What I did take time to learn was that standard payment terms in France are not acceptable. Standard is often two months after the end of the month in which the invoice was sent. Those days are now behind me. My conditions are to be paid upon receipt of the invoice. I generally see the money appearing on my bank account within 7-10 days after having completed the job. Two weeks top whack. I simply wish that the JobZ system were more effective on the open circuit.
| | | | | Is this the same Nikki? | Aug 13, 2015 |
I saw your entry and I read your last input. Could be me (sorry, I am Dutch, not native English), but according to me they are two different stories.
Please enlight me, because you lost me.
Kind regards,
Rob
[Edited at 2015-08-13 21:29 GMT]
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| @ Angela Rimmer | Aug 13, 2015 |
Angela Rimmer wrote: Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:
Further, not only are the extremely costly CAT tools something I refuse to acquire...
I personally find that approach outdated with potential to affect your incoming workload as the future progresses. But of course, you are free not to invest if you so desire. It's just that from your post, I get the impression that you only view CAT tools as a means for clients to exploit translators out of cold hard cash. From my perspective, however, I find that they do indeed increase productivity and are a useful bargaining chip when a client wishes to try their luck at renegotiating rates. Of course, some clients want to use their CAT analyses to exploit you, but I just don't work with those ones. I treat the analyses like I treat my base rate: I do not allow my clients to set my base rate, and I don't allow them to set my match discounts either. But anyway, with regard to ProZ and the job postings, I never even cast an eye on those. I use ProZ purely as a means to increase my visibility and my credibility as an established translator, and indeed since becoming a paying member and a certified pro, my visibility has increased significantly and I have received a number of new clients as a result of my membership on ProZ -- but never through the job postings, those posts are an absolute joke and I will continue to wonder why any self-respecting professional even bothers with those.
Hi Angela,
Perhaps with my subsequent posts, you will see that I have nothing against CAT tools. I do actually use Wordfast from time to time. I've been on a couple of courses too. However, for the type of work I do, they make next to no difference.
When you say (above) : "It's just that from your post, I get the impression that you only view CAT tools as a means for clients to exploit translators out of cold hard cash. From my perspective, however, I find that they do indeed increase productivity and are a useful bargaining chip when a client wishes to try their luck at renegotiating rates.
You will see that in my additional posts, I support CAT tools where the advantages of increased productivity, precision, consistency etc, play into the hands of the translator having acquired the tool. There are arguments for paying you a higher rate if you have CAT tool, not a lower one!
I am among those who has certainly benefitted from ProZ. I still enjoy it, I still contribute and I still obtain benefits from that. Observing and learning from others has been one of the foremost advantages for me. Next to that, the contacts, direct and indirect, have been quite numerous too. (I just wish the JobZ section were more useful to all).
The echos I have form paying members are that the rates are not that brilliant even when you have access to those jobs too. Again, don't get me wrong folks. I'm not begrudging members better access : it's only right if you pay for it. I have actually been a paying member in the past by the way. What is worrying is that even then the rates are often way under market rates. And that is a shame, all the more so if you have paid for it, don't you think?
[Edited at 2015-08-13 22:02 GMT]
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Robert Rietvelt wrote:
I saw your entry and I read your last input. Could be me (sorry, I am Dutch, not native English), but according to me they are two different stories.
Please enlight me, because you lost me.
Kind regards,
Rob
[Edited at 2015-08-13 21:29 GMT]
It's probably not you, but me!
The purpose of ths initial post is about the rates on the JobZ section on the site.
The question of CAT tools is related as it is often a requirement.
You are right, I may have encouraged us to get side-tracked on the CAT tools question.
On the related issue of CAT tools and job postings, I stated that CAT tools are great for those who find them useful in their work. I support the idea that it is an investment which increases a translator's productivity. I add the proviso that they are not an absolute necessity for the type of work you do. I keep the situation under reveiw. If I reckon I have an interest in acquiring one, then I will.
As for the job postings on Proz...
A significant number of jobs posted here require CAT tools. As CAT tools increase productivity, I think that should be an advantage for the freelancer first and foremost. If a translator can produce more - at the same rate - that is a serious advantage. That's efficiency! If the translator is producing more but at a lower rate, he might be earning the same amount as before, when he was producing less for a better rate.
From the agent's point of view, he (the agent) is however receiving more and paying less for it. Lucky agent! However, he is not selling on to his client at a lower rate. I feel bad for some freelancers working with agencies who certainly have to take their cut, but who are billing the same prices as before, if not higher still, and rather than passing this on to the freelancer, are instead negotiating lower rates!
A freelancer who works with a direct client can probably make better use of his CAT tool as he/she can be more productive and still charge the standard rate. Now that's progress! Both are better off.
Coming back to the main issue, CAT tools are often requested for jobs on ProZ. Rates are already low here. Are job posters expecting those with CAT tools to work for even less?
[Edited at 2015-08-13 22:07 GMT]
| | | | Michael Beijer 
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:24
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
| Thanks for the added context. | Aug 13, 2015 |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote: The intention behind this post is not for me complain about how few jobs I have had via the ProZ job system. I was using the fact that I have obtained none that way myself as a springboard for opening a discussion/review on the overall efficacy of the system. This is a forum so it is not going to be a very scientific survey of the system's efficacy. For the record, I work with direct clients only. I accept what any self-employed individual has to accept, namely that the flow of work is irregular. I am also naturally extremely curious. The ProZ job system is something I was curious about when it was set up. Every now and again I would like to imagine it presenting new opportunities for me. That is not the case. Also for the record, I have been translating professionally since 1994. I joined ProZ in 2003. My activity on ProZ has brought me into contact with many individuals and continues to do so. That is already a great return on the “investment” of time spent on ProZ. Indeed, some of my fellow Prozers have become clients, some colleagues and others friends. Some are all three! On the subject of investment, well, don’t worry. I do understand quite a lot about investment of time and money in order to create, build and sustain my business activity. The amount of time and money invested directly and indirectly in my business activity has been, is and will continue to be important. Like any serious professional, investment is something I take seriously. Here are just a few investments made since 1994 and which many (most?) of us will invest in and so I imagine I’m not giving any trade secrets away here. Many of these go without saying, but I’m saying them anyway: computers etc., software, travel to meet existing and potential clients, attendance at conferences (to keep up to date with events in my fields, but also to observe and meet potential clients), regular purchases of books, subscriptions, training, on-the-job first-hand experience as an employee, degrees, certificates (real life attendance, distance and MOOC), renting an office to keep business and family apart. If I reckoned a USD 300-1000 CAT tool would help, I think I’ve made my point that I’d make no bones about getting one. I reckon that most of us invest quite heavily directly or indirectly in what we do. CAT tools are costly, and helpful for many. It depends on the type of work you do. Good tools are expensive. They always have been and always will be. You get what you pay for. I know there are a couple of fairly basic, inexpensive and quite helpful tools out there too. I have actually been to one or two brief and basic CAT training courses. So I am an informed individual and I chose not to invest in something I don't need and will not use. For me, it would be a waste of money, a poor investment. For translators who do use CAT tools, then go for it! I do actually support the idea that such an investment should be applauded. Technology at the service of mankind and not mankind as a slave to the machine! So if it is of use for you, I’m behind you all the way. Where I do jump of the train though is when agents boast to clients on the one hand, that they will get precision and consistency as their freelancers use CAT tools, whilst imposing discounted rates for freelancers doing the work. In a nutshell, CAT tools are often used by agents to pay the freelancer less, whilst maintaining (or even increasing) rates with their clients. I do understand that agents have a job to do and also that if a CAT tool really does bring in more work, then the cost of purchase can be written off pretty quickly. Back to the case in point. ProZ is quite an incredible tool. It is highly beneficial to me and I enjoy contributing. As a freelancer, with direct clients and registered with one agency only (who has yet to contact me with a job), I’m nevertheless always open to new sources of work. I think we all have to be. It makes commercial sense. My best direct clients are people I’ve been working with for more than 10 years. I’m only interested in good new clients. I used to think I couldn’t afford to choose. I now know I can’t afford not to! Therefore I remain curious about the ProZ job system as a potential source. I hope that those who pay membership do get the jobs and that the rates are close to market rates for where you are based. All I can say is that rates for the “open” jobs, always at less than 40% of the get-out-of-bed rate are simply not serious offers for serious translators where I am based. They are generally not the sort of client I can afford. That’s all I was saying folks.
Thanks for the added context. I was under the impression that you didn't have enough work, and were peeved at not getting any from Proz, which is obviously not the case. A closer look at your profile would probably have set me straight, but to be honest, I'm multi-tasking (translating, while dipping in and out of the current discussion for a little light entertainment).
Yes, I agree that the rates here on Proz are pretty terrible, and what's worse, many newbies don't know any better. And what's even worse … is that some of these newbies actually end up becoming pretty decent translators, but then undercut the rest of us by accepting Proz rates and in doing so mess up the market. But that's another story and another thread. Or is it?
Anyway, I found my highest paying clients off-site, but I have managed to find a handful of agencies here on Proz that are willing to pay around €0.15/src word (albeit somewhat begrudgingly); not great, but pretty decent. Oh yeah, this is for Dutch-English. Direct clients pay quite a bit more, but then again, finding them takes time and money, whereas with Proz you just sit there and get thrown jobs (and orange peels, coffee grinds and empty Coke cans ), which is pretty nifty, if you're lazy like I am when it comes to marketing yourself professionally, etc.
[Edited at 2015-08-13 22:26 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-08-13 22:26 GMT]
| | | | | If I understand right..... | Aug 13, 2015 |
.... your grudge is not about Proz, but about the use of CAT-tools (????)
If that is the topic, let me tell you how I learned translating during my studies, by pen and paper, and no, I am not 120 years old. Looking back on it, you were not allowed to make any mistake, or you had to start all over again. It was a pain, but a good way to learn the trade of translation!
Before you call me an old geezer, let me tell you that I for one am happy with CAT-tools. Now I can't im... See more .... your grudge is not about Proz, but about the use of CAT-tools (????)
If that is the topic, let me tell you how I learned translating during my studies, by pen and paper, and no, I am not 120 years old. Looking back on it, you were not allowed to make any mistake, or you had to start all over again. It was a pain, but a good way to learn the trade of translation!
Before you call me an old geezer, let me tell you that I for one am happy with CAT-tools. Now I can't imagine any other way to translate a text. I learned to master about 8 (or more, I lost count) CAT-tools, on- and offline. Personally I think the amount of tools is nonsence, but it pays my daily bread. You are a professional translator, or you are not, go with the time!
That is the way I look at it.
If your grudge is about something else, you still lost me. ▲ Collapse
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Robert Rietvelt wrote:
.... your grudge is not about Proz, but about the use of CAT-tools (????)
If that is the topic, let me tell you how I learned translating during my studies, by pen and paper, and no, I am not 120 years old. Looking back on it, you were not allowed to make any mistake, or you had to start all over again. It was a pain, but a good way to learn the trade of translation!
Before you call me an old geezer, let me tell you that I for one am happy with CAT-tools. Now I can't imagine any other way to translate a text. I learned to master about 8 (or more, I lost count) CAT-tools, on- and offline. Personally I think the amount of tools is nonsence, but it pays my daily bread. You are a professional translator, or you are not, go with the time!
That is the way I look at it.
If your grudge is about something else, you still lost me.
Robert,
I have no grudge against CAT tools.
I have a grudge against how clients, generally where the client is an agency, will expect to pay the translator less for the job siply becasue he has a CAT tool. The client should pay the same rate, if not more! So no, nothing against CAT tools. Quite the opposite. (The fact that they are not helpful in my specialities is in fact not important).
Bringing it back to ProZ, my grudge is that the rates on ProZ are low anyway and tend to be even lower when a translator has a CAT tool. It should be the opposite! The client gets more volume, greater accuracy and he expects to pay less? No, he should probably even pay more.
Effectively, I had probably not made myself clear as I think you have understood the opposite of what I wanted to say.
| | | | Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:24
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
| it's good to keep both eyes open when it comes to agencies and CAT tools | Aug 13, 2015 |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote: Robert Rietvelt wrote:
.... your grudge is not about Proz, but about the use of CAT-tools (????)
If that is the topic, let me tell you how I learned translating during my studies, by pen and paper, and no, I am not 120 years old. Looking back on it, you were not allowed to make any mistake, or you had to start all over again. It was a pain, but a good way to learn the trade of translation!
Before you call me an old geezer, let me tell you that I for one am happy with CAT-tools. Now I can't imagine any other way to translate a text. I learned to master about 8 (or more, I lost count) CAT-tools, on- and offline. Personally I think the amount of tools is nonsence, but it pays my daily bread. You are a professional translator, or you are not, go with the time!
That is the way I look at it.
If your grudge is about something else, you still lost me.
Robert, I have no grudge against CAT tools. I have a grudge against how clients, generally where the client is an agency, will expect to pay the translator less for the job siply becasue he has a CAT tool. The client should pay the same rate, if not more! So no, nothing against CAT tools. Quite the opposite. (The fact that they are not helpful in my specialities is in fact not important). Bringing it back to ProZ, my grudge is that the rates on ProZ are low anyway and tend to be even lower when a translator has a CAT tool. It should be the opposite! The client gets more volume, greater accuracy and he expects to pay less? No, he should probably even pay more. Effectively, I had probably not made myself clear as I think you have understood the opposite of what I wanted to say.
Yes, that's a very good point: we are expected to pay for a CAT tool, so the agency can then force us to adopt their stupid fuzzy discount table. Not exactly fair. There is some truth in that. However, there are certain things that do make sense, even though I'd rather have it otherwise.
Repetitions, e.g.. If the text has tons of repetitions (as mine often do, since I do mainly IT and legal), I feel that it's only right to give the client a discount on them. However, they aren't free: I charge 25% for pure reps, which I feel is fair. The trick is to understand how these discount tables work and watch out that agencies aren't scr€wing you. For example, there are many agencies that will try to get discounts for fuzzy matches, when there is no TM! Very sneaky. If there is no TM, there can only be two things: "no match", or "repetition". No fuzzy %s. Or they will switch on the "homogeneity" function in e.g. memoQ, and hope you don't notice.
[Edited at 2015-08-13 22:56 GMT]
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Michael Beijer wrote: Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:
That’s all I was saying folks.
Thanks for the added context. [...] if you're lazy like I am when it comes to marketing yourself professionally, etc.
[Edited at 2015-08-13 22:26 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-08-13 22:26 GMT] [/quote]
You can keep the Coke cans. But if you get orange peels, I'd like to know how you manage to get them.
We each know (or should know) what our basic rate is. I have a basic rate and adjust according to a number of factors. Every single job I have ever seen posted on the "open" circuit on the ProZ job section is way below my break-even rate.
I used to expect that those jobs went to people in places where the cost of having a business and the cost of living are lower than they are in France, that they could make a living from it and so much the better. I now think it is not always the case. Sometimes I see a host of questions posted which are obviously from one of the jobs posted on ProZ. I suppose that the person accepted the rate proposed, or even offered less to get the job. If it is an experienced translator, then I think it's a shame. If it's a newbie, I think it's a shame also. Newbies need to eat too! Taking longer makes you less efficient and that's penalty enough when you're starting out. There are some good newbies and some not so good oldies. Also, for the record, I know there are good agencies out there too. (For the record, I'm not bashing all agencies, nor am I bashing CAT tools or their users).
Actually, I'm just rattled that the job system seems to perpetuate rotten rates. Rattled even more that there's not much to be done about it.
One good piece of advice someone gave me quite early on and which I only really understood after a few years:
"If you know you can do a good job, it is always easier to justify a high price to a client than a bad price to oneself."
It started to make sense when I had to turn down a job at a normal to good rate because I was working on a job at a bad rate. I simply prefer to do some (very, very short) jobs for free, (very, very occasionally) as a favour. That way a serious client will come back.
What you say about CAT tools is pertinent. You need to know how to use them to your advantage. I'm actually quite geeky, in that I appreciate techie tools. A point I've been misunderstood on here this evening, but I'll survive that. When I started out in 1994 with my US Roboticcs modem (beep, beep, beep), I was astounded to discover how many translators were working with a typewriter and no internet connexion. For me though, less is more. If the nature of the work I do changes, and it might, who knows, then I will get hold of a more sophisticated CAT tool than WordFast. Even then , I still don't expect I will ever consider a job via a ProZ job post.
[Edited at 2015-08-13 23:28 GMT]
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Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:
... I remain curious about the ProZ job system as a potential source. I hope that those who pay membership do get the jobs and that the rates are close to market rates for where you are based. All I can say is that rates for the “open” jobs, always at less than 40% of the get-out-of-bed rate are simply not serious offers for serious translators where I am based. They are generally not the sort of client I can afford. That’s all I was saying folks.
With the typical ProZ job board bottom rates, do you still remain curious about it as a potential source for jobs? In spite of the fact that all your work come from direct clients? Given your success, I do not understand your curiosity for such a system.
Also, if you have so many direct clients that you cannot afford not to choose, how come you complain about the high price of professional CAT tools? You would amortize the investment in no time. I do not understand this either.
[Edited at 2015-08-14 01:27 GMT]
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Miguel Carmona wrote: Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:
... I remain curious about the ProZ job system as a potential source. I hope that those who pay membership do get the jobs and that the rates are close to market rates for where you are based. All I can say is that rates for the “open” jobs, always at less than 40% of the get-out-of-bed rate are simply not serious offers for serious translators where I am based. They are generally not the sort of client I can afford. That’s all I was saying folks.
With the typical ProZ job board bottom rates, do you still remain curious about it as a potential source for jobs? In spite of the fact that all your work come from direct clients? Given your success, I do not understand your curiosity for such a system. Also, if you have so many direct clients that you cannot afford not to choose, how come you complain about the high price of professional CAT tools? You would amortize the investment in no time. I do not understand this either. [Edited at 2015-08-13 23:36 GMT]
1) “With the typical ProZ job board bottom rates, do you still remain curious about it as a potential source for jobs? In spite of the fact that all your work come from direct clients? Given your success, I do not understand your curiosity for such a system”.
Miguel, I am curious for a number of reasons. Firstly, I was around on ProZ in the early days when the system came in and a moderator at the time. I have kept a close eye on how things have evolved. I would love the rates to be higher! Secondly, I keep an eye on the system but let’s not exaggerate. I look once in a blue moon. I keep my eyes open and an open mind. You never know when you might need a new source of work. I simply note with regret that the rates are still low.
2) “Also, if you have so many direct clients that you cannot afford not to choose, how come you complain about the high price of professional CAT tools? You would amortize the investment in no time. I do not understand this either.”
Please do be careful about how you read me. I did not say I have lots of clients. What I did say was that all my clients are direct clients. That is a fact.
I do not know what you mean when you say “success”. Please realise that I did not say I have lots of clients. I find your comment comes across as slightly unpleasant. It is however a simple fact of life that if I work for the rates that are offered on the open ProZ job system, I would not be able to remain in business. A break-even rate in country A is a profitable rate in country B and even a fairly decent rate in country C.
What I did say and mean was that we all have a rate which is necessary and that if we don’t get that rate, then we don’t stay in business. Several years ago, working with a wide variety of clients, all essentially in one sector, I had a lot of work coming in. But when that particular business sector changed, many clients became unreliable. They became bad payers. Some went out of business. I stayed in business but learnt that I would have to be more careful. If I was to continue working as a translator, I would have to learn to refuse work from some clients. I could not work on the principle that any client was a good client as I had seen that was not so. My experience had taught me that I had to choose my clients. So when I say that I could not afford not to choose, it is not through arrogance, not at all.
In the past, I made the mistake of not choosing carefully. I did not have the confidence to refuse work. In the early stages, I think many of us accept whatever comes our way. After a while, not always in such a brutal way, we learn that perhaps we should be a little more careful. What I mean is that I learnt from my experience. The hard way.
Now, as always, I still have direct clients. Clients are not just in one sector of business. Common sense dictates that I should be aware of all reasonable potential sources of income - and that includes checking the ProZ jobz system. I simply regret that not a lot seems to have improved.
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Nikki,
I truly apologize. Now I realize I misread your words.
As to the ProZ job board, please do yourself a favor: forget about it. I do not think it will ever get better. Or, has it over the period of time you have observed it?
Obviously you have been doing some things right, since you have some direct clients and, unlike many colleagues, you know how much your professional work is worth and, God bless you, you refuse to work for less than that. If only e... See more Nikki,
I truly apologize. Now I realize I misread your words.
As to the ProZ job board, please do yourself a favor: forget about it. I do not think it will ever get better. Or, has it over the period of time you have observed it?
Obviously you have been doing some things right, since you have some direct clients and, unlike many colleagues, you know how much your professional work is worth and, God bless you, you refuse to work for less than that. If only everybody else did that! Can you imagine what a beautiful translator's world this would be?
I wish you the best. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Michael Newton
United States
Local time: 11:24
Japanese to English
+ ...
| Enough is enough | Aug 14, 2015 |
Translators need to wean themselves from agencies and go directly for the end client.
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