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Off topic: 神六上天,国外尤其是海外华人反应如何?
Auteur du fil: Mark Xiang
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
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价值观 Jun 21, 2012

Shang wrote:

Sun

我不是说在有能力的情况下搞这个东西有什么不好。我想说的是政府的宣传工具把类似活动的目的宣扬成了在外国人面前“扬眉吐气”的手段(源于从鸦片战争开始的耻辱感),很多老百姓也接受了这种说法。其实我们做什么都是为了自己,为什么要做给别人看呢?这是严重缺乏自信的表现。再说了,一个人做一件事可以改变周围人对你的看法,但一个国家却做不到这一点。

Shang,

我理解你的意思,也同意你的看法。开发航天技术与开发其它任何技术一样,应该只是为了和平利用宇宙空间,加强国防,造福于人民,而不是做给别人看的,或出于其它任何目的。

一个国家如果想改变外人的看法,首先得改变国人的看法,但那不是做一两件事情就能改变的。某些做事情专门做给别人看的人,往往会以为别人做事情也是做给别人看的。例如,某些官方媒体认为美驻华大使骆家辉不坐头等舱、不住费用超出规定的五星级酒店,都是做给别人看的。骆家辉却说,他只是代表了一种价值观。


[Edited at 2012-06-21 14:18 GMT]


 
wherestip
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作给人看 Jun 21, 2012

ysun wrote:

骆家辉却说,他只是代表了一种价值观。



其实艰苦朴素一直是中国人民历来的优良传统。

现在价值观变了, 却会被人看作是作秀或者是穷酸。 ...


 
Shang
Shang
Chine
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过奖了 Jun 21, 2012

Wherestip:

最近有些忙,来得少了。空间站这样的东西,也许民用价值要比军事价值大得多,比如在失重状态下研究新材料和处理作物种子。很多东西中国做不出来,原因就是无法解决材料和工艺问题。这是烧钱的游戏,烧到一定程度之后,再有钱的主儿也会心疼的。

wherestip wrote:

火箭技术发展到一定程度大概也就到顶了。 所以美国国债总额日益累积庞大,将 Space Shuttle program 这样的宇宙探索项目都给取消了。依我看,如果真是对国家的军事能力有重大影响的话, 美国政府也不会这样做的。 中国的军事力量非常强,但大概还是有必要继续发展火箭技术。


 
wherestip
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科研 Jun 21, 2012

Shang wrote:

Wherestip:

最近有些忙,来得少了。空间站这样的东西,也许民用价值要比军事价值大得多,比如在失重状态下研究新材料和处理作物种子。很多东西中国做不出来,原因就是无法解决材料和工艺问题。这是烧钱的游戏,烧到一定程度之后,再有钱的主儿也会心疼的。



言之有理。 你和 Yueyin 说得对, 和平利用宇宙空间和太空科研还是建立空间站的首要目的。

前不久的说法是: 以后没有 space shuttle 了, 要去 the International Space Station 还要依赖于 Russia. 美国民间钱是有,但谁也不愿意增加税收。...


 
ysun
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顺便说一句 Jun 22, 2012

wherestip wrote:

那天跟 Yueyin 瞎聊还谈起你。 我们都认为你 ......

我现在轻易不敢在论坛上公开夸人,因为怕反而给人家带来麻烦。有一次,我在论坛上夸了一位恰巧与我为加州同一客户工作的 native English speaker + Ph.D.。结果马上就有人给她发信,在她贴出的中译英 Sample translations 里挑毛病。天下真是无奇不有!


 
Shiya Luo
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美国承包给私人了 Jun 23, 2012

wherestip wrote:

火箭技术发展到一定程度大概也就到顶了。 所以美国国债总额日益累积庞大,将 Space Shuttle program 这样的宇宙探索项目都给取消了。依我看,如果真是对国家的军事能力有重大影响的话, 美国政府也不会这样做的。


Elon Musk,他开了个营利性的公司搞航天工程,SpaceX。我不知道这意味着什么,是不是对国家军事能力有重大影响。但是隐约觉得和美国经济能力有关系,不过这在中国是不可能发生的。


 
wherestip
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SpaceX Jun 24, 2012

Shiya Luo wrote:

wherestip wrote:

火箭技术发展到一定程度大概也就到顶了。 所以美国国债总额日益累积庞大,将 Space Shuttle program 这样的宇宙探索项目都给取消了。依我看,如果真是对国家的军事能力有重大影响的话, 美国政府也不会这样做的。


Elon Musk,他开了个营利性的公司搞航天工程,SpaceX。我不知道这意味着什么,是不是对国家军事能力有重大影响。但是隐约觉得和美国经济能力有关系,不过这在中国是不可能发生的。


Thanks a lot, Shiya. I wasn't keeping up with that.

PayPal, Telsa Motors, SpaceX, SolarCity ... He's one smart cookie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk



SpaceX

In June 2002, Musk founded his third company, Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX),[21] of which he is currently the CEO and CTO. SpaceX develops and manufactures space launch vehicles with a focus on advancing the state of rocket technology. The company's first two launch vehicles are the Falcon 1 and Falcon 9 rockets and its first spacecraft is Dragon[22].

On 23 December 2008, SpaceX was awarded a $1.6 billion NASA contract for 12 flights of their Falcon 9 rocket and Dragon spacecraft to the International Space Station, replacing the Space Shuttle after it retired in 2011. Initially, Falcon 9/Dragon will replace the cargo transport function of the Shuttle and astronaut transport will be handled by the Soyuz. However, SpaceX has designed Falcon 9/Dragon with astronaut transport in mind and the Augustine commission has recommended that astronaut transport be handled by commercial companies like SpaceX.[23]

Musk views space exploration as an important step in expanding—if not preserving—the consciousness of human life.[24] Musk has said that multiplanetary life may serve as a hedge against threats to the survival of the human species. "An asteroid or a super volcano could destroy us, and we face risks the dinosaurs never saw: An engineered virus, inadvertent creation of a micro black hole, catastrophic global warming or some as-yet-unknown technology could spell the end of us. Humankind evolved over millions of years, but in the last sixty years atomic weaponry created the potential to extinguish ourselves. Sooner or later, we must expand life beyond this green and blue ball—or go extinct." Musk's goal is to reduce the cost of human spaceflight by a factor of 100. He founded SpaceX with $100 million of his early fortune. He remains chief executive officer and chief technology officer of the Hawthorne, Calif.-based company.

In seven years, SpaceX has designed the family of Falcon launch vehicles and the Dragon multi-purpose spacecraft from the ground-up. In September 2009, SpaceX's Falcon 1 rocket became the first privately funded liquid-fueled vehicle to put a satellite into Earth orbit. NASA selected SpaceX to be part of the first program that entrusts private companies to deliver cargo to the International Space Station. This contract, which has a minimum value of $1.6 billion and a maximum value of $3.1 billion, has become a cornerstone of the Space Station's continued access to cargo delivery and return. In addition to these services, SpaceX's goals include simultaneously lowering the price of orbital spaceflight and improving reliability, both by an order of magnitude, while creating the first fully reusable orbital launch vehicle. In the coming years, Musk will focus on delivering astronauts to the International Space Station, but has stated his personal goal of eventually enabling human exploration and settlement of Mars. In a 2011 interview, he said he hopes to send humans to Mars' surface within 10–20 years.[25]. On May 25, 2012, the SpaceX Dragon vehicle docked with the ISS, making history as the first commercial company to launch and dock a vehicle to the International Space Station.



 
Shang
Shang
Chine
Local time: 23:35
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传统决定的 Jun 25, 2012

美国的武器和军用装备都是承包给私营公司生产的。最初可能是政府图省事,花钱购买就好,后来就形成了传统。再说私营企业技术能力强,要是政府自己另起炉灶,不免带上中国式的官僚主义作风,从经济效益上讲实在不划算。NASA的航天飞机也是因为烧钱太多下马的。他们连打仗的军人都可以外聘(黑水公司),与众不同。

Shiya Luo wrote:

wherestip wrote:

火箭技术发展到一定程度大概也就到顶了。 所以美国国债总额日益累积庞大,将 Space Shuttle program 这样的宇宙探索项目都给取消了。依我看,如果真是对国家的军事能力有重大影响的话, 美国政府也不会这样做的。


Elon Musk,他开了个营利性的公司搞航天工程,SpaceX。我不知道这意味着什么,是不是对国家军事能力有重大影响。但是隐约觉得和美国经济能力有关系,不过这在中国是不可能发生的。


 
wherestip
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Capitalism Jun 25, 2012

Shang wrote:

美国的武器和军用装备都是承包给私营公司生产的。最初可能是政府图省事,花钱购买就好,后来就形成了传统。再说私营企业技术能力强,要是政府自己另起炉灶,不免带上中国式的官僚主义作风,从经济效益上讲实在不划算。NASA的航天飞机也是因为烧钱太多下马的。他们连打仗的军人都可以外聘(黑水公司),与众不同。



这话说得很对。 Cost effectiveness 是作出这类外包(outsourcing)决定的主要考虑因素。 这是与资本主义制度运行的基本原理是绝对分不开的。

十几二十年来,美国的大公司逐步地把许多技术发展、产品生产都搬到其它国家去了(offshoring is a major type of outsourcing),而且愈演愈烈,目的就是为了不断地降低成本,增加利润,并且合法地变相逃避美国的联邦税收。 一般中国企业是不会作出这种目光短浅、摧残自己国家经济命脉的傻事的。


[Edited at 2012-06-26 13:56 GMT]


 
ysun
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一位朋友看了此讨论后发给我的新闻 Jun 27, 2012

巴航工业将在哈尔滨总装生产喷气公务机
http://sky.news.sina.com.cn/2012-06-25/100521528.html


 
wherestip
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嫦娥三号登月着陆 Dec 14, 2013

Great achievement! Congratulations to all the hardworking personnel involved in the program. And congratulations to the Chinese nation and Chinese people as a whole.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/14/world/asia/china-moon-landing/index.html?hpt=hp_t2



(CNN) -- China's first lunar rover landed on the moon Saturday, less than two weeks after it blasted off from Earth, Chinese state news reported.

The landing makes China one of only three nations -- after the United States and the former Soviet Union -- to "soft-land" on the moon's surface, and the first to do so in more than three decades.




[Edited at 2013-12-14 15:04 GMT]


 
wherestip
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Moment of Landing Dec 14, 2013

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2013/12/14/vo-china-lunar-probe-landing.cctv.html

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2013/12/14/china-lunar-walk.cnn.html
... See more
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2013/12/14/vo-china-lunar-probe-landing.cctv.html

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2013/12/14/china-lunar-walk.cnn.html


[Edited at 2013-12-14 21:04 GMT]
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神六上天,国外尤其是海外华人反应如何?






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