Pages sur ce sujet: < [1 2 3 4] > | Off topic: Translation before the internet Auteur du fil: Nicolas Clochez
|
Thanks for the positive responses - will certainly post here once finished![](https://cfcdn.proz.com/images/bb/smiles/icon_smile.gif)
Nicole Schnell wrote:
I don't mind.
Jeff Whittaker wrote:
I think it would be a great idea (please post link in this thread).
Jack Doughty wrote:
(Sarai, you are welcome to this and my previous post for your blog if you want them.)
>> Really enjoyed it, Jack - thanks for sharing!
I must say, I feel incredibly grateful for the Internet when I read some of these posts - for example, having to head over to library every time I wanted to reference something would be an absolute chore. Those of us who started translating well into the Internet Age take it *completely* for granted.
Completely. | | | Balasubramaniam L. Inde Local time: 15:15 Membre (2006) anglais vers hindi + ... SITE LOCALIZER Also check with proz.com | Jun 14, 2013 |
Sarai Pahla wrote:
With regards to the original question, however - would anyone mind terribly if I gathered material for a blog post from this?
I have no problems, but do check with proz.com also, for I vaguely remember having read somewhere on some forum discussion here long ago that the copyright of the forum posts rests with proz.com, and it is they whose permission you should be asking. | | |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
I have no problems, but do check with proz.com also, for I vaguely remember having read somewhere on some forum discussion here long ago that the copyright of the forum posts rests with proz.com, and it is they whose permission you should be asking.
Excellent suggestion - thanks for pointing that out - I will make sure I do that.
[Edited at 2013-06-14 05:15 GMT] | | | Emma Goldsmith Espagne Local time: 10:45 Membre (2004) espagnol vers anglais No copyright on ProZ posts, with OP permission. | Jun 14, 2013 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
Sarai Pahla wrote:
With regards to the original question, however - would anyone mind terribly if I gathered material for a blog post from this?
the copyright of the forum posts rests with proz.com, and it is they whose permission you should be asking.
No, there's no problem with copyright, Sarai. I checked a few months ago, when Allison Wright wrote an interesting post that I thought would make a good guest article on my blog http://signsandsymptomsoftranslation.com/2013/01/31/studio-starter/
I asked ProZ support "Am I right that there are no copyright issues with reproducing ProZ forum posts elsewhere?"
Alejandro Cavalitto replied:
"That is correct. As long as the original poster agrees with your intention to reproduce the original post."
Look forward to reading your blog post, Sarai!
Oh, and my 2 cents on topic:
When I started translating, the workflow was:
1. Telephone call from agency to check availability
2. Source document faxed to me
3. Print out translation and catch the bus to deliver it by hand, on paper.
Those were the days when computers were empty when you switched them on and you had to load Wordstar on a 5 1/4" floppy disk to give them something to chew on...
[Edited at 2013-06-14 05:58 GMT] | |
|
|
Kay Denney France Local time: 10:45 français vers anglais Those were the days! | Jun 14, 2013 |
I remember waiting till after lunch to deliver my translation so as not to disturb the client's lunch hour, only to be invited to have some pizza with them because they were having a very late lunch. Yes relations were friendlier!
But also having to rack my brains more, you couldn't just google a term to see if it's commonly used or not.
I also remember a client sending a motorcycle courier (yes they do still exist in Paris at least) to pick up a floppy disk, who just... See more I remember waiting till after lunch to deliver my translation so as not to disturb the client's lunch hour, only to be invited to have some pizza with them because they were having a very late lunch. Yes relations were friendlier!
But also having to rack my brains more, you couldn't just google a term to see if it's commonly used or not.
I also remember a client sending a motorcycle courier (yes they do still exist in Paris at least) to pick up a floppy disk, who just rode past me as I drank coffee in the front garden with my neighbour then pretended nobody was home so he could skive off for lunch.
Going to the Musée de l'homme just to find out a couple of terms, frantic phone calls to friends of friends who had worked in this or that domain, and ringing the client of my client to have them explain the difference between their two products, in order to find the right corresponding terms in English, only to be told I ought to find someone who spoke English! I decided to take that as a compliment for my accent in French!
No problem sharing my post elsewhere![](https://cfcdn.proz.com/images/bb/smiles/icon_wink.gif) ▲ Collapse | | | Kevin Fulton États-Unis Local time: 04:45 allemand vers anglais Delivery on floppy disk / via ASCII | Jun 14, 2013 |
When I got serious about translating in the early 1980s, all my customers were local (within driving distance). My computer ran on an operating system called CP/M. I'd pick up my assignments in hard copy (or they'd be mailed -- no rush jobs back then!). I had access to a large university library (and still do), so I had plenty of resources available. I only needed a general bilingual dictionary, as the library had a variety of technical dictionaries.
Sometimes I would fax a translat... See more When I got serious about translating in the early 1980s, all my customers were local (within driving distance). My computer ran on an operating system called CP/M. I'd pick up my assignments in hard copy (or they'd be mailed -- no rush jobs back then!). I had access to a large university library (and still do), so I had plenty of resources available. I only needed a general bilingual dictionary, as the library had a variety of technical dictionaries.
Sometimes I would fax a translation to a direct client, but in the case of a couple of agencies in the area, I would deliver the translation on a 5 1/4" floppy disk, or in one case, I'd send my translation via 1200 baud modem (much slower than the slowest dial-up Internet connection). I don't even remember the name of the communications program we used. Sending data involved setting matching communications protocols on either end, a major pain.
The advent of e-mail and the Internet changed the complexion of the translation industry completely. Before e-mail, only essential documents were translated: specifications, brochures, manuals. The information explosion resulting from technology changes meant that companies spewed forth e-mail, PowerPoint presentations, flow charts, all of which needed to be translation (and in some cases, not really!).
Initially with the expansion of the volume of work, there was price growth as well. However, people soon discovered that anyone with a computer and an Internet connection could be a translator. Companies didn't care much about the quality of the translations they received, since a lot of the material to be translated was trivia -- e-mail exchanges, memos, random inquiries. Who wanted to pay more than a few cents/word for "I found your umbrella in my car. I'll have Joe drop it off when he goes to your office at the end of the week"? Unfortunately this carried over into the translation of more serious documents. Clients ignorant of the translation process assumed that translating a manual involved the same process as translating an e-mail, and found agencies/translators to accept a correspondingly lower price. ▲ Collapse | | |
I simply love this thread!
I did not actually start translating professionally until after we had a modem and could get on the Internet if we were lucky.
In the mid 90s there was a national strike in Denmark, and everyone hoarded yeast, if they could get it, so at least they could bake their own bread... There was no snail mail for at least a fortnight, and I had promised to send some proofreading to a client... so we took the plunge and had a modem installed!
... See more I simply love this thread!
I did not actually start translating professionally until after we had a modem and could get on the Internet if we were lucky.
In the mid 90s there was a national strike in Denmark, and everyone hoarded yeast, if they could get it, so at least they could bake their own bread... There was no snail mail for at least a fortnight, and I had promised to send some proofreading to a client... so we took the plunge and had a modem installed!
Shortly after that, I started working in-house at a translation agency, and being in a larger town, the Internet actually WORKED! I managed to take my diploma by distance teaching from home, but if there were large files, I had to download them in the small hours of the morning, when the lines were less busy, or the modem cut out, and I had to start again.
I really enjoyed Balasubramaniam's description... my father used to translate in the 1950s. He did own a small portable typewriter for English, and the secretary had a Godrej typewriter, but he wrote his Greek and Marathi by hand. (The Greek was for his students, copied rather than translated.) If he needed more than a couple of copies, he cut stencils with a hand-held stylus, and then they were duplicated.
He had a hand duplicator, which we children were sometimes allowed to operate, but it called for a good sense of rhythm, not too fast, or it ate several sheets of paper at a time, and not too slow, or it smudged...
It survived well into the eighties, however, and was used for parish magazines, as it could cope with line drawings as well as text, and was still very cheap, operated by volunteers, of course.
Things like exam papers had to be timed very carefully, but my father's Bible translation was concentrated on a week's residential committee work a couple of times a year. Then he came back home to 'draft' the agreed sections for discussion at the next committee. Colleagues could be consulted on the phone.
***** ***** *****
I met the occasional translator when I trained as a librarian in the 1970s, and one of my fellow students married a translator.
They did use the reference libraries, and were one of the categories of users we were supposed to help. We also had technical German as a subject, and that was my first taste of 'real' translation as opposed to odd pages of literature at A-Level.
All that was hand-written, of course - ordinary mortals did not have computers, and students could never afford them, although we did learn a little COBOL programming...
***** ***** *****
It's hard to believe it was only only about fourteen or fifteen years ago that I got so annoyed with the modem - it had an odd 'tune' it played when connecting - or just as frequently said an unharmonious 'ba-baaaah, ba-baaaah' when it did not get through. And after fifteen minutes it timed out and had to be reconnected... So I could not work online. ▲ Collapse | | | Rachel Fell Royaume-Uni Local time: 09:45 français vers anglais + ... Thank you Jack | Jun 18, 2013 |
Jack Doughty wrote:
THE WINDOWS OF CHANGE
(Poem first installed in 2000, subsequently upgraded in 2004, 2007, 2008 and 2013.)
Brilliant![](https://cfcdn.proz.com/images/bb/smiles/icon_smile.gif) | |
|
|
Oksana Weiss Allemagne Local time: 10:45 Membre (2011) anglais vers russe + ... Telex, anyone? | Jun 19, 2013 |
I wonder, has anybody started translating using the telex machine? Well, I did back in 1991, when I just finished the secondary school and failed my exams to be admitted to the higher school, so I had to start working. Thanks to my knowledge of English and French, I was given a job in the only foreign trade association in Ukraine called Ukrimpex. I operated telex and teletype machines, and managers from various departments used to come to the telex room and dictate their messages in Russian or U... See more I wonder, has anybody started translating using the telex machine? Well, I did back in 1991, when I just finished the secondary school and failed my exams to be admitted to the higher school, so I had to start working. Thanks to my knowledge of English and French, I was given a job in the only foreign trade association in Ukraine called Ukrimpex. I operated telex and teletype machines, and managers from various departments used to come to the telex room and dictate their messages in Russian or Ukrainian, and I had to translate them quickly to English or French and send by telex. The managers and heads of departments were supposed to speak foreign languages, of course, but in practice they just did not bother and used translators or telex girls to translate their messages, faxes and letters. Everything was urgent back then and had to be translated on the fly. If I did not know the translation of this or that word, I used to phone the translators from the relevant departments and ask them for translation (or just replace it with a synonym, for that matter). Paper dictionaries were also used as well as the contracts and other reference papers where there was a chance to find the relevant term. I learned to type quickly and to translate simultaneously with typing. Telex is (or was?) a two-way communication, so I had to translate orally the reponses from the other side. It looked more like interpretation. Everything was monitored by KGB called the First Department sitting next door to us. Then came the August Putsch and the end of USSR. Nothing was announced on TV, where they showed only the Swan Lake all day long. So I used to connect to Minitel (the French telex network), to "download" the news on the perforated tape and to whisper-translate them to people coming to the telex room for some information. We had to beware of the KGB guy, of course, who used to pop down unexpectedly for a cup of coffee or on some other pretext. Fortunately, all perforated strips look similar, and we were cautious not to print anything. There was, of course, time for fun, and we used to download the astrological forecasts (my God, I used to translate those too and they were ridiculous!), biorythms and even some pictures like Mona Lisa or Christmas tree made of letters and symbols. It was fun until the day the telexes were replaced with computers and that started the era of computer games and computer-aided translations... ▲ Collapse | | | Rita Pang Canada Local time: 04:45 Membre (2011) chinois vers anglais + ... MODÉRATEUR Thank you, and thank you again | Jun 19, 2013 |
....to all of the posts. They are brilliant. As I was born in the 80s and only started working as a translator some 4 years ago, a lot of the equipment and methods you've used to handle client correspondence/work etc seem so far removed from the working reality of today (but of course, they made perfect sense and were surely useful/essential), that for me it's simply tough to fathom that "waiting for an answer" is possible when it comes to the whole agency/client-translator relationship. In the ... See more ....to all of the posts. They are brilliant. As I was born in the 80s and only started working as a translator some 4 years ago, a lot of the equipment and methods you've used to handle client correspondence/work etc seem so far removed from the working reality of today (but of course, they made perfect sense and were surely useful/essential), that for me it's simply tough to fathom that "waiting for an answer" is possible when it comes to the whole agency/client-translator relationship. In the language pair(s) I work in, in particular when it comes to dealing with agencies in the Far East, I often lose jobs or potential leads because I am not able to reply within 30 minutes to an hour. I think I only managed to get away with that since I am physically located in Canada and time zone makes a biggggg difference.![](https://cfcdn.proz.com/images/bb/smiles/icon_wink.gif)
While I do work with internet full-force these days and it has become an integral part of both my professional and personal life, I do recall vividly the pre-internet days. I remember my first computer at the age of 13; AOL's "you've got mail" was a constant sound bite in my parent's bedroom slash computer room, and AOL's occasionally "shady" chat rooms were strictly off-limits to me as a tween. Going on the internet means that your phone lines are blocked at the same time, so there were constant arguments between my mom and I on "the benefits of going on internet" (seriously, go out and play a bit, would you?) When I was in grade 7 I remember in my English class we had to hand in a book report (this was in 1997), and I was one of the two or three people in class who wrote my report by hand. By grade 10 or so teachers started asking for typed/printed reports as a mandatory exercise.
In general my family is a bit "slow" in terms of catching up with technology; I kept my Pentium 1 computer and only threw it out about 7 years ago when it was clear that no technical resurrection of any kind will give this machine any more value. I've been taught how to change the tape on the typewriter and know it still, but too bad that wouldn't give me any extra brownie points anywhere these days really.
Before the widespread of internet though I do recall Windows 3.1, MS-DOS and the random programming classes I've done, and oh, Where in the world is Carmen Sandiego. For the Chinese speakers out there, I am sure you recall playing the "Three Kingdoms" RPG in MS-DOS format and having to come up with an English name for your character if you don't know how to type Chinese.... Both are awesome games and I still remain a huge fan.
My first blog was created back in 1999 when I had nothing else to do during the summer and was too angsty a teen to agree to going to "summer camp". Now if only Geocities can still be found I'll LOVE to see those oh-so-important entries I've written back when I was a boring nerdy teenager in high school. (Does anyone know if you can still find content uploaded to geocities? i.e. geocities.yahoo.com or something?)
And oh, here are some creative ways on making use of your obsolete floppy disks:
http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2011/09/12/6-creative-uses-for-the-obsolete-floppy-disk/
p.s. I tried to use those metal clips off the floppies as paperclips: epic fail.
[Edited at 2013-06-19 17:04 GMT] ▲ Collapse | | | nrichy (X) France Local time: 10:45 français vers néerlandais + ...
I spent half of my professional life with conversion problems: from IBM 82 CM (a Selectric with magnetic cards, 1 page = 1 magnetic card) and from Wang to the Displaywriter (8 inch disks, but it was a real pleasure to work on it – it had a screen !!), and from there to the IBM PC (and, for a short period, to and from MacIntosh). I went freelance in 1985 and bought a PC, it didn’t have a hard drive and only 512 ko of RAM. The computer shop told me that as long I was doing word processing, I w... See more I spent half of my professional life with conversion problems: from IBM 82 CM (a Selectric with magnetic cards, 1 page = 1 magnetic card) and from Wang to the Displaywriter (8 inch disks, but it was a real pleasure to work on it – it had a screen !!), and from there to the IBM PC (and, for a short period, to and from MacIntosh). I went freelance in 1985 and bought a PC, it didn’t have a hard drive and only 512 ko of RAM. The computer shop told me that as long I was doing word processing, I wouldn’t need 640 ko. I also bought a dozen of software packages: DW2, Wordstar, Textor, Word Perfect and later Word, and Pagemaker 1.05A, the only program that didn’t crash, so I used it for my own pleasure. Most conversions were from Word to WP for American and Dutch clients, and from WP to Word for French clients. Programs didn’t have an internal conversion program at that time and layout had to be redone from scratch. I was happy when I could reuse text paragraphs. The biggest problem was however that most translators didn’t know how to do word processing and used their computer as a typewriter, with hard returns at the end of each line. One of my friends had composed a huge dictionary in four languages. I saw it in his office, it was on an Amstrad PCW (physically incompatible with everything) and with spaces between the columns. He had promised a floppy disk to his client (a well-known publishing house) and got criticized on delivery because it was totally useless and had to be recomposed. --From the moment the software got internal converters and Word Perfect wasn’t used anymore, I lost this market and did DTP, transcription in French and in English (as a non native of both languages, but everybody was happy and I earned my life very well) and translation. As for translation, this means that they sent me faxes, I translated, I sent the translation back (by mail, later on with a dial-up modem), I invoiced and got paid. A huuuuuge difference with nowadays.
[Oksana : telex, yes, I also did that. Telexes had legal value as it was totally impossible to send messages with a false time stamp – too primitive for that. I could even read the paper bands.] ▲ Collapse | | | Jeff Whittaker États-Unis Local time: 04:45 espagnol vers anglais + ... Modems and WordPerfect | Jun 19, 2013 |
I completely forgot about the fact that when we had to transfer files via modem, we also had to pay for the cost of the long-distance call because there was no such thing as unlimited calling back then. However, some agencies did have a toll free number.
Also, the word processor we had at the time was not WYSIWYG. In other words, you could not see the different font sizes, colors, indentations, justification, etc. on the screen. You had to print the document.
Another ... See more I completely forgot about the fact that when we had to transfer files via modem, we also had to pay for the cost of the long-distance call because there was no such thing as unlimited calling back then. However, some agencies did have a toll free number.
Also, the word processor we had at the time was not WYSIWYG. In other words, you could not see the different font sizes, colors, indentations, justification, etc. on the screen. You had to print the document.
Another issue was that working from home was not nearly as commonplace as it is today and people looked at you with suspicion.
[Edited at 2013-06-20 20:01 GMT] ▲ Collapse | |
|
|
| No fax, no computer, just typewriter (a portable one) | Jun 22, 2013 |
It was 1972, not even fax machines yet, as these were introduced in the Mexican market by the late 1970s. Anyway, living near the publishing houses for whom I worked was an advantage in the huge and beautiful Mexico City.
I used a portable Olympia mechanical typewriter, and sometimes pen and paper as a draft before typewriting.
My work was to be delivered in person every Friday, and I collected my money every Saturday, in cash! By that time I accomplished the translatio... See more It was 1972, not even fax machines yet, as these were introduced in the Mexican market by the late 1970s. Anyway, living near the publishing houses for whom I worked was an advantage in the huge and beautiful Mexico City.
I used a portable Olympia mechanical typewriter, and sometimes pen and paper as a draft before typewriting.
My work was to be delivered in person every Friday, and I collected my money every Saturday, in cash! By that time I accomplished the translation of 18 books... Oh, man, those were the days!
Nowdays, I work exactly as everyone else. The difference: I'm not young anymore and can't work more than half day. However, I certainly have had a good life as a translator.
Be happy!
Anna S. Villegas. ▲ Collapse | | | Pencil, paper, and the essential eraser | Jun 23, 2013 |
The first translation I ever did, apart from the odd one in my regular job, was for a company that wrote handbooks, etc, mainly for military equipment. They wanted an Englishman who worked in electro-mechanical precision engineering and who spoke "fluent" Swedish. There were not many about.
My first jobs were by pencil, paper and eraser, and getting to the public letter box in time. One client I had had a wonderful young lady, who I never met, and she understood my tape-recorded d... See more The first translation I ever did, apart from the odd one in my regular job, was for a company that wrote handbooks, etc, mainly for military equipment. They wanted an Englishman who worked in electro-mechanical precision engineering and who spoke "fluent" Swedish. There were not many about.
My first jobs were by pencil, paper and eraser, and getting to the public letter box in time. One client I had had a wonderful young lady, who I never met, and she understood my tape-recorded dictation and sent me almost faultless hardcopies for checking (at least faultless on her part).
My first computer was a Sinclair, and later a "luggable" IBM PC brought back from the U.S.A. by my son who was an IBM-trainee for a time.
WodPerfect was the thing, until it was torpedoed by a later program.
A visit to the town library was sometimes a neccessity to find 'words'. No WordFinder or Googling then.
The tempo was natural and laid back in those days and it was possible to receive source text, translate and deliver before a purchase order arrived.
The price per word has hardly changed for the better since then. ▲ Collapse | | | Pages sur ce sujet: < [1 2 3 4] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Translation before the internet Trados Studio 2022 Freelance |
---|
The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.
Designed with your feedback in mind, Trados Studio 2022 delivers an unrivalled, powerful desktop
and cloud solution, empowering you to work in the most efficient and cost-effective way.
More info » |
| Pastey |
---|
Your smart companion app
Pastey is an innovative desktop application that bridges the gap between human expertise and artificial intelligence. With intuitive keyboard shortcuts, Pastey transforms your source text into AI-powered draft translations.
Find out more » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |