Pages sur ce sujet: [1 2] > | Extremely low rates coming out of South America Auteur du fil: Colleen Roach, PhD
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I subscribe to job announcements on another platform that are automatically emailed to me per my language pairs. I have been getting a fair amount of notices, mainly from Argentina. I give a per word rate that is the lowest I can go but still I have been told that this is "too high for the Argentine market."
Today I received a very disturbing email. Yesterday, I had responded to a job announcement for ES>EN for a particular field. NO price range was given for the job; however, I d... See more I subscribe to job announcements on another platform that are automatically emailed to me per my language pairs. I have been getting a fair amount of notices, mainly from Argentina. I give a per word rate that is the lowest I can go but still I have been told that this is "too high for the Argentine market."
Today I received a very disturbing email. Yesterday, I had responded to a job announcement for ES>EN for a particular field. NO price range was given for the job; however, I did send a CV which had my rate. Today, I received an email from an agency (?) in Uruguay that had posted the job. I was told in the email that they do not pay a per word rate but only a "per article/item" rate: $4 per item for texts that ranged from 250 to 350 words (sometimes a "little less" & sometimes a "little more" they stated).
When you do the math, you see that these rates, no matter how they slice/dice the word count, are well below 2 US cents per word.
To add insult to injury, the email stated that anyone interested in collaborating with them had to take a test, which would determine whether or not they would have any work for you.
The platform from which I get these job announcements, as I just discovered today, has some tables which have the per word rate charged in specific countries, for specific language pairs, i.e. ES>EN per word rates charged by Uruguayan translators, by Argentine translators, etc. In both cases, this rate is about 8 cents a word --if the data is accurate. So, this means that this agency (if it is an agency), based in Uruguay, is offering a "job" at less than 1/4 the rate which supposedly translators in Uruguay make.
Today, I got a job announcement from an Indian agency, also on this platform, which also offered a ES>EN job that came in under US 2 cents per word. But, at least they put the rate in the job announcement, so you'd know whether or not to waste your time.
Any thoughts on this from ES>EN translators? From what I have seen there are a good many agencies now operating out of Argentina (which probably has 1 of the highest per capita incomes in Latin America). In the Uruguayan case, although they have a decent web site up with supposedly a staff with specific titles ("Content Director," etc.) this is no guarantee that this is actually an agency -- could be just a group of people with no real infrastructure.
I've never reported a company here on PROZ. Is there a mechanism whereby one can report said "agency" in Uruguay if: 1) I didn't really work with them? 2) there was no "offer"/ad coming from PROZ, but another platform?
Thank you. ▲ Collapse | | | Thayenga Allemagne Local time: 15:17 Membre (2009) anglais vers allemand + ...
Colleen Roach, PhD wrote:
I've never reported a company here on PROZ. Is there a mechanism whereby one can report said "agency" in Uruguay if: 1) I didn't really work with them? 2) there was no "offer"/ad coming from PROZ, but another platform?
Thank you.
Unfortunately, if you reported an agency with which you've never worked and had received no job offer through ProZ from, you would be violating their T&C's and your post would simply be deleted.
I am almost certain that ProZ knows about these bottom-feeder agencies already. And there is nothing they can do about it other than not letting them post job offers below an acceptable minimum rate. But I'm not sure if they would do that.
There is presently another forum discussion on low rates running.
https://www.proz.com/forum/money_matters/332153-trend_to_reduce_translation_rates.html
These, of course, unpaid tests add to the frustration. All they'd have to do is look at a profile to determine whether a particular translator is suitable for their jobs, and in some cases, if s/he is too expensive for them. | | |
Thayenga wrote:
I am almost certain that ProZ knows about these bottom-feeder agencies already. And there is nothing they can do about it other than not letting them post job offers below an acceptable minimum rate. But I'm not sure if they would do that.
I'm sure they would NOT do that. Free market, anti-competitive practices and all that BS... I believe we've read similar discussions (with posts from staff) countless times in order to know that's a fact. | | | Samuel Murray Pays-Bas Local time: 15:17 Membre (2006) anglais vers afrikaans + ...
Colleen Roach, PhD wrote:
Is there a mechanism whereby one can report said "agency" in Uruguay if: 1) I didn't really work with them? 2) there was no "offer"/ad coming from PROZ, but another platform?
1. You can only put a review on the Blue Board if you have actually done paid work for the client.
2. You can add reviews on the Blue Board for any agency/company/person that you've work for, regardless of whether you've had any contact with them specifically via ProZ.com.
Thayenga wrote:
Unfortunately, if you reported an agency with which you've never worked and had received no job offer through ProZ from, ... your post would simply be deleted.
Having had no job offer through ProZ.com is irrelevant for the Blue Board.
I am almost certain that ProZ knows about these bottom-feeder agencies already. And there is nothing they can do about it other than not letting them post job offers below an acceptable minimum rate. But I'm not sure if they would do that.
A client can be banned from posting jobs if there have been multiple reports of non-payment. ProZ.com does not, however, set minimum rates for job posts (simply because members who lobby for such minimums can't agree among themselves how much that minimum is supposed to be). Translators can choose not to receive low offers, but clients can't be denied making low offers. Clients are warned, however, during the job post creation process if their rate is considered low by average standards.
[Edited at 2019-01-25 18:42 GMT] | |
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Joshua Parker Mexique Local time: 06:17 Membre (2016) espagnol vers anglais + ...
As an ES>EN translator working in Latin America, I can relate.
I too have received tons of offers, again mostly from Argentina, well below my minimum.
In particular, one Argentine agency contacted me last year. I sent them my CV and clearly indicated my rate in my e-mail. Since they then asked me to take a short test, I assumed - perhaps naively - that my rate was something they could work with.
After passing their test, I was bombarded almost daily with n... See more As an ES>EN translator working in Latin America, I can relate.
I too have received tons of offers, again mostly from Argentina, well below my minimum.
In particular, one Argentine agency contacted me last year. I sent them my CV and clearly indicated my rate in my e-mail. Since they then asked me to take a short test, I assumed - perhaps naively - that my rate was something they could work with.
After passing their test, I was bombarded almost daily with notifications of projects they uploaded to their platform (on a "first come first served" basis), usually one-page assignments that paid about $5 (minus PayPal fees!).
That really annoyed me, as the whole exercise was a total waste of my time, and was about to write them an e-mail to that effect when suddenly the notifications stopped. Maybe they took the hint. Or went out of business.
Frustratingly, these assignments never stayed up for more than 10 minutes, so there were clearly plenty of takers.
They know they pay a pittance - so why do they even bother contacting translators from places like the US, where surely nobody can afford to work for $0.02 / word?
I don't think it's much different in other Latin American countries. Here in Mexico, I know (of) plenty of agencies that pay less than 2 cents a word (and translators happy to work for that).
Colleen Roach, PhD wrote:
The platform from which I get these job announcements, as I just discovered today, has some tables which have the per word rate charged in specific countries, for specific language pairs, i.e. ES>EN per word rates charged by Uruguayan translators, by Argentine translators, etc. In both cases, this rate is about 8 cents a word --if the data is accurate. So, this means that this agency (if it is an agency), based in Uruguay, is offering a "job" at less than 1/4 the rate which supposedly translators in Uruguay make.
I think these tables are often based on what translators would like to charge, rather than what they actually charge. There's a huge difference.
And no, in this case, I don't think you can report this agency to ProZ. Thanks for sharing, though. ▲ Collapse | | | I guess all this means... | Jan 25, 2019 |
... is these are not your clients, and this may not be your market altogether. Move on to greener pastures, is all. What else is there to discuss? | | | Paul Dixon Brésil Local time: 11:17 portugais vers anglais + ... In memoriam Very bad in Brazil | Jan 25, 2019 |
The situation in Brazil is very bad indeed. One agency paid one Brazilian Real for two hundred and fifty words, which works out at BRL 0,004 per word. At current rates this would be USD 0,001 per word for inhouse staff. And it is a well-known agency (no names mentioned). And jobs are so rare here that when there is a job you get 50 applicants in a matter of minutes, even at low rates. I have even thought about getting a second job. The country is in its worst crisis in history. And not only tran... See more The situation in Brazil is very bad indeed. One agency paid one Brazilian Real for two hundred and fifty words, which works out at BRL 0,004 per word. At current rates this would be USD 0,001 per word for inhouse staff. And it is a well-known agency (no names mentioned). And jobs are so rare here that when there is a job you get 50 applicants in a matter of minutes, even at low rates. I have even thought about getting a second job. The country is in its worst crisis in history. And not only translation jobs - a recent offer of menial jobs in a supermarket had queues taking up four blocks. ▲ Collapse | | | Thanks for responses | Jan 25, 2019 |
Thanks, everyone, for your responses.
Joshua: As to why they “even bother contacting translators from places like the US, where surely nobody can afford to work for $0.02 / word?” –actually less than that in this case – they may not have even known I’m based in the U.S. as they probably do a mass email response to emails of interest they get; they didn't even bother with my name in the greeting– and most likely don’t bother to check out profiles that would indicate ho... See more Thanks, everyone, for your responses.
Joshua: As to why they “even bother contacting translators from places like the US, where surely nobody can afford to work for $0.02 / word?” –actually less than that in this case – they may not have even known I’m based in the U.S. as they probably do a mass email response to emails of interest they get; they didn't even bother with my name in the greeting– and most likely don’t bother to check out profiles that would indicate home country. Also, regarding their test, it’s also possible that this could just be a “ploy” to get free work. Who would know?
I think you are right about the survey, i.e. “the tables are often based on what translators would like to charge, rather than what they actually charge. There's a huge difference.” I also noted that one of their surveys had an amazing table for EN>EN which must be for copy editors mainly (or perhaps “proofreaders” as that term is now used, i.e. revisers of machine translations.) The hourly rate for India and the US was virtually identical: about $20 an hour. There is no way that can be accurate.
Paul: I’m sorry the general job situation in Brazil is so bad. It is also quite bad in the U.S. although the media (left/right—doesn’t matter) does not report this. Wage regression (not stagnation) has been the "norm" for some time in many sectors of the labor market. For the last several months, they have been reporting great “growth in the job market,” which is a pack of lies, as these are mainly minimum wage jobs, with no benefits at all (really bad for health insurance), no paid time off, vacations, etc.
The Misha: You are right. I have to see this as having done my “due diligence” in terms of the Latin American market; time to just move on.
[Edited at 2019-01-25 20:08 GMT] ▲ Collapse | |
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Robert Rietvelt Local time: 15:17 Membre (2006) espagnol vers néerlandais + ... Not on Proz,.... | Jan 26, 2019 |
Colleen Roach, PhD wrote:
I've never reported a company here on PROZ. Is there a mechanism whereby one can report said "agency" in Uruguay if: 1) I didn't really work with them? 2) there was no "offer"/ad coming from PROZ, but another platform?
.... but there are other platforms available for us translators, like Linkedin or Facebook.
[Edited at 2019-01-26 15:58 GMT] | | | name of agency | Jan 26, 2019 |
Robert writes: "but there are other platforms available for us translators, like Linkedin or Facebook."
I check out regularly several Linked In translation groups, and I haven't seen people post a warning simply on a low-paying agency. What I've seen are people posting the names of agencies that do not pay, or in some other way "scam" the translator. I'm not on Facebook -- I should be.
Anyway, if anybody reading this wants the name of this agency, please send me a priva... See more Robert writes: "but there are other platforms available for us translators, like Linkedin or Facebook."
I check out regularly several Linked In translation groups, and I haven't seen people post a warning simply on a low-paying agency. What I've seen are people posting the names of agencies that do not pay, or in some other way "scam" the translator. I'm not on Facebook -- I should be.
Anyway, if anybody reading this wants the name of this agency, please send me a private message here on PROZ. ▲ Collapse | | | Joshua Parker Mexique Local time: 06:17 Membre (2016) espagnol vers anglais + ...
Colleen Roach, PhD wrote:
Joshua: As to why they “even bother contacting translators from places like the US, where surely nobody can afford to work for $0.02 / word?” –actually less than that in this case – they may not have even known I’m based in the U.S. as they probably do a mass email response to emails of interest they get; they didn't even bother with my name in the greeting– and most likely don’t bother to check out profiles that would indicate home country. Also, regarding their test, it’s also possible that this could just be a “ploy” to get free work. Who would know?
Ah, I see. Generally speaking, I don't even reply if they don't address the e-mail to me personally; it usually means they're looking for anyone who'll accept the low rates they offer.
But I agree with the Misha - your market is out there, but this is not it, so try not to let it bother you. Whether we like it or not, market forces are what they are, and we're powerless to influence them; the law of supply and demand will always dictate prices. | | | Finding the right markets | Jan 27, 2019 |
Joshua: Thanks for the reply & words of encouragement on finding my “market” out there (+ to Misha). I just have to keep in mind that it is “out there,” and not focus on the low-payers, which will only put me in the doldrums. (I just found online an outsourcer in Europe specifically targeting Latin American translators & paying 1 cent a word; from what I can see this person has been around a fairly long time and seems to have no trouble finding people to work for him). The thing is: I ... See more Joshua: Thanks for the reply & words of encouragement on finding my “market” out there (+ to Misha). I just have to keep in mind that it is “out there,” and not focus on the low-payers, which will only put me in the doldrums. (I just found online an outsourcer in Europe specifically targeting Latin American translators & paying 1 cent a word; from what I can see this person has been around a fairly long time and seems to have no trouble finding people to work for him). The thing is: I really love the Spanish language. I didn’t grow up in a bilingual family but I had friends in grade school who did. One of my best friends was Puerto Rican, and I would visit with her after school, and was fascinated hearing her speak Spanish with her grandmother. When I went off to college, I “fell in” with Puerto Ricans. In fact, when I “ended up” in Paris for a long time my most solid “community” there was made up of Puerto Ricans in Paris, as I had contacts from my days in Michigan.
Reading your profile made me smile, as it is somewhat like mine, but played out in a different geographic direction. You indicated that you grew up in France, but “An unexpected turn of events …led to me moving to Mexico.” I majored in Spanish in college, lived in Mexico for several months for a language program, and had my Puerto Rican friends. I was all set to move to Spain after I saved a bit of money after graduation. I had an older best friend from my university who also was a Spanish major; she had a good job teaching English in Barcelona. She was awaiting my arrival & happy to help me find work & a place to live. But, in my case “An unexpected turn of events …led to me moving to Paris…” where I remained for 13 years. When I went there, my intention was to stay a short time, and then move to Latin America – but I never made it there.
“The best-laid plans of mice and men…” ▲ Collapse | |
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DarwinE États-Unis Local time: 08:17 espagnol vers anglais + ... What can you do? Find other clients | Jan 28, 2019 |
Is it wrong for agencies to offer these disturbingly low rates for a service they themselves are requesting? Absolutely. Will it stop? As long as people keep accepting those low-paying rates, no chance.
As a EN-ES linguist I've also been disappointed by some of the rates offered by South American agencies. But rather than waste my time penny pinching I just simply don't deal with these agencies. There have been some exceptions; I've accepted some lower rate jobs for one specific cli... See more Is it wrong for agencies to offer these disturbingly low rates for a service they themselves are requesting? Absolutely. Will it stop? As long as people keep accepting those low-paying rates, no chance.
As a EN-ES linguist I've also been disappointed by some of the rates offered by South American agencies. But rather than waste my time penny pinching I just simply don't deal with these agencies. There have been some exceptions; I've accepted some lower rate jobs for one specific client but they were general texts that were hardly technical and I felt comfortable with the rate proposed and the amount of effort required.
In my pair and specifically in the Mexican/LATAM variant, I've found my most reliable clients come from the US and Europe. Unfortunately I've just kinda started lumping tasks from Argentina into the same pile as tasks from China and India. ▲ Collapse | | | Agency NOT in Uruguay, but Spain! | Jan 28, 2019 |
Sorry to have unwittingly given Uruguay a bad name. The address of the agency with the extremely low job offer had a street name of Uruguay, which I mistook for the country. Mea culpa. | | |
Colleen Roach, PhD wrote:
From what I have seen there are a good many agencies now operating out of Argentina (which probably has 1 of the highest per capita incomes in Latin America).
That has changed in recent years, and is something I've seen advertised by an agency ("...due to our currency depreciation, we can afford to charge as little as 0.04 USD/w..."). I've learnt, that when they ask specifically for translators from Argentina it's to pay cheaply. Originally, I fell for it, thinking they just wanted knowledge of the regional variation, but it's the money. And those rates are useless if you live in a foreign country. I've been offered 4 USD for an hour of DTP! (less than a waiter job). | | | Pages sur ce sujet: [1 2] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Extremely low rates coming out of South America Trados Business Manager Lite |
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