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Les échelles de gouvernement
tronculaire
Jun 7, 2013 14:51
10 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term

Frôler la correctionelle

French to English Other General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters Forest management
This is something of a standard phrase, although I can't seem to find it in any databases or dictionaries. In my context, it occurs in a written account of a bike race (for bike racing enthusiasts):

"Je suis déja recouvert de boue. Je frôle la correctionnelle sur un saut mal orienté, je me voyais déjà par terre. Cette portion de la course ne m’est pas inconnue!"

In other words, the author uses "frôler la correctionelle" in reference to a bad move that results in him falling off his bike. I only have a hazy idea of what this might mean and am more or less guessing that it means something like he jeopardizes his chances (in the race) by falling off his bike.
Or perhaps it means something quite different!
Can anyone help?
Proposed translations (English)
3 +3 nearly came a cropper
3 +6 to have a close shave
4 +3 I came close to being eliminated
4 ...came close to crashing...
4 it was touch and go at one point
4 I just missed receiving a warning / being cautioned / penalised
3 I'm cutting it close with that kind of fall (to have a close call)
2 To bail (out) -- I nearly bailed (out)
References
la correctionnelle

Discussion

Francis Marche Jun 8, 2013:
"La punition est immédiate" "correctionnelle" is in line with the catch phrase of competitive sports commentators in France : "la punition est immédiate", i.e. any error/mistake (NOT foul) is payable in cash. Commonly used by soccer (or any team sports) anchor men : e.g. " in any game against the Brazilian national soccer team, if you let the ball slip to their forward, "la punition est immédiate" (you pay it in cash, meaning they score immediately and almost without exception). "La correctionnelle" is "the instant punishment", the nasty fall, that would make him bite the dust and kiss good-bye to the race.
David Hayes (asker) Jun 8, 2013:
A few points Many thanks for this overwhelming interest in the question!
Just to clarify, I can confirm that the rider did not actually fall. He just came close to it. I wasn't sure myself, but I've now checked.
Also, and most importantly, no one in the race was disqualified due to falling as such. Since it was a stage race, disqualification would result from failing to complete a given stage within the time limit. Obviously, if you fall off, you lose time.
MatthewLaSon Jun 8, 2013:
Yep, he had a close call - almost over for him.
Kévin Bernier Jun 7, 2013:
His sentence means he was already picturing himself on the ground when he botched his jump. He did not fall, he merely almost fell and thus came close to being eliminated.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jun 7, 2013:
Did he fall, or did he not fall, that is the question!
Whether 'tis nobler to say fall he did not... (oops, come unstuck!).

Some people seem to think the guy has actually taken a tumble. Is there something else in the text that confirms an actual fall?
"frôler" means to come close to
"se voir déjà" in the imperfect confirms for me that it did not happen, but that he came really close.
Kévin Bernier Jun 7, 2013:
@being eliminated for falling http://www.lavoixdunord.fr/sports/paris-nice-le-maillot-jaun...

Perfect example right there. It does happen.
Peter LEGUIE Jun 7, 2013:
Jane F I think you hit the nail right on the head : that is what Tony and I sensed, but you have found an excellent reference.
Jane F Jun 7, 2013:
Found this definition ..... (Cyclisme) Se dit d'un leader qui a manqué d'être éliminé ou largué, soit par défaillance, soit par inattention.
http://www.grodico.com/mot/correctionnelle-froler-la
Peter LEGUIE Jun 7, 2013:
David Hayes I come very close to Tony's opinion: could it possibly be a superlative for being disqualified for cheating? This is surely anything but a criminal offence.
Jane F Jun 7, 2013:
in this context maybe it could mean 'I came close to being disqualified'?
David Hayes (asker) Jun 7, 2013:
I see it used in sporting contexts, but I'm not quite sure what is means: http://www.republicain-lorrain.fr/sports/2013/03/04/l-union-...

I think it means putting yourself in danger somehow by almost messing up a match, etc.

But I can't find any confirmation of my guess (which may be wrong!)

Proposed translations

+3
51 mins
Selected

nearly came a cropper

This is sufficiently ambiguous to mean either being disqualified or simply crashing out.
Peer comment(s):
agree Jane F : I think you're right, in the light of the phrase 'je me voyais déjà par terre'
8 mins
Thanks, Jane
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : This is what sprang to my mind too. I made another suggestion just in case it helps the Asker, but I prefer this one!
1 hr
Thanks, Nikki
disagree kashew : He came a cropper - fell off bike!
3 hrs
Not necessarily - the expression can be interpreted in a variety of ways
agree Emma Paulay : Yes, this, or another similar expression.
15 hrs
Thanks, Emma
agree Jane Proctor (X)
17 hrs
Thanks, Jane
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks. Now that I know what the expression means literally, I think this is my favourite rendering (for this context) of its sense into idiomatic English. "
23 mins

...came close to crashing...

That's what it means in this context, I'd say. It's also used in football articles to describe when a team flirts with defeat (but ends up winning).
Something went wrong...
50 mins

I'm cutting it close with that kind of fall (to have a close call)

Hello,

An sports expression often criticized by linguists. It means "à deux centimètres de quelque chose de catastrophique" (almost at the magistrate's office for a fine, etc LOL)


http://badralbudur.free.fr/spip.php?article241


I hope this helps.
Peer comment(s):
neutral kashew : Hi, M! Complex not the right word, sorry. I just meant rather long - "Had a close call" suits well.
3 hrs
"I'm cutting it close" is not too complex. The meaning is that he was close to a losing it all (out of the competition). You need something idiomatic in English like in the French.
Something went wrong...
+6
1 hr

to have a close shave

Another among a number of possible expressions.
Peer comment(s):
agree Emma Paulay : Yes, this is how I interpret the French.
15 hrs
agree GILLES MEUNIER
16 hrs
agree AllegroTrans
16 hrs
agree Jane Proctor (X)
17 hrs
agree Victoria Britten
22 hrs
agree Francis Marche
1 day 6 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 hrs

To bail (out) -- I nearly bailed (out)

I can't tell whether he means he nearly crashed or got disqualified, but "je me voyais déjà par terre" inclines me to the latter. Maybe cycling enthusiasts can enlighten us as to whether one can be penalised for an ill-performed jump?

To bail out could mean either, so the ambiguity might come in useful if you can't get clarity on what exactly the Fr means. I'm not sure if this also applies to UK and US English, but in South African slang, to bail can mean to fall or to fail ('I nearly bailed over that last ramp, bru').

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 heures (2013-06-07 19:04:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

No pun or connection with the legal "to bail out" and "correctionnel" intended. See Wordnik link for ways in which 'to bail out' can be used.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 heures (2013-06-07 19:09:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, I meant to say that "je me voyais...terre" inclines me to the former; i.e. that he nearly crashed.
Reference:

http://www.wordnik.com/words/bail

Something went wrong...
+3
37 mins

I came close to being eliminated

My father used to compete in bicycling, so I have a bit of knowledge about the "slang" they use. To me, this is definitely what it means.

"I was on the verge of elimination" is another possibility.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2013-06-07 19:46:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Example of a cyclist being forced to give up due to falling :

http://www.lavoixdunord.fr/sports/paris-nice-le-maillot-jaun...
Peer comment(s):
agree Peter LEGUIE
20 mins
agree papier
47 mins
agree Sheri P
2 hrs
neutral philgoddard : But why would you be eliminated for falling off your bike? Doesn't that imply being disqualified? You haven't given any references.
2 hrs
It isn't unheard of to be eliminated from a race because you fell down. See : http://www.lavoixdunord.fr/sports/paris-nice-le-maillot-jaun... (and that is just the first link of many if you google it)
neutral MatthewLaSon : Hello. Not idiomatic enough. Sorry.
8 hrs
neutral Emma Paulay : That would have been the consequence, but it's not what he's saying.
15 hrs
Something went wrong...
18 hrs

it was touch and go at one point

One more suggestion to choose from!
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

I just missed receiving a warning / being cautioned / penalised

I think that this is what is being suggested.

This is a sports based race, so perhaps warning or penalty would be relevant?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2013-06-07 17:07:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I would say that this term is to some extent connected to the idea of a penalty. This link shows how it is used in a criminal context:

"("Peine correctionelle" - more sever than a police penalty, less severe than a criminal penalty)."
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=nLEXV7GWO7oC&pg=PA198&lpg...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2013-06-07 17:10:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"UGS s'endort dans un faux rythme frise la correctionelle"
http://archives.tdg.ch/archives/sport/ugs-endort-faux-rythme...

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Note added at 1 day20 hrs (2013-06-09 11:25:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Pour l'instant, le Togo est toujours qualifié, mais il est passé tout près de la correctionelle avec ce penalty frappé sur le poteau par Mouelhi."
http://www.rtbf.be/sport/foot-direct/can/phase-de-groupes/gr...
Peer comment(s):
neutral Emma Paulay : You're interpreting this too literally.
13 hrs
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

22 mins
Reference:

la correctionnelle

Nouveau Petit Robert 2007
Peer comments on this reference comment:
neutral Tony M : And?
8 mins
I found friser la correctionnelle in a criminal context, so wondered if " I nearly fouled up" would do despite the very informal register.
Something went wrong...
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