| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Payment not made and no sign of response to payment reminder Thread poster: Teresa Woischiski
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Hi all,
I am having a very bad experience with an agency. 30 days have passed and even though it was stated by the PM that payment would be done after 30 days, no sign of it.
Sent a payment reminder. No response. Communication throughout the big project was via Skype and very unpleasant. Pushy, changing the deadline for unclear reasons to earlier delivery, unacceptable behaviour, crossing the line of politeness several times, expected to communicate to night hours due t... See more Hi all,
I am having a very bad experience with an agency. 30 days have passed and even though it was stated by the PM that payment would be done after 30 days, no sign of it.
Sent a payment reminder. No response. Communication throughout the big project was via Skype and very unpleasant. Pushy, changing the deadline for unclear reasons to earlier delivery, unacceptable behaviour, crossing the line of politeness several times, expected to communicate to night hours due to time change of country and if not, threatened to stop the project, told me the translation was not good, even though no proof for it came and no demand to go over it again and correct the apparently bad translation, etc. In the end I had to refuse to work on the second half of the project due to this.
So my question: I need a recommendation how to proceed to get my payment. Would you do a blue board entry right away? Or threaten to do so? If no sign after the 3rd payment reminder: should I contact a collection agency?
Thank you.
Best regards,
Teresa Woischiski ▲ Collapse
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The Blue Board may not be used to put pressure on anyone. Also, if you make a negative Blue Board entry too early after delivery, the client can claim that there were quality problems, and then Proz will take down your entry. Hence, it's best to wait a couple of months after delivery before making negative Blue Board entries, in which case it is too late for the client to claim there were quality problems.
As for debt collection, it obviously depends on which country it is. Have you... See more The Blue Board may not be used to put pressure on anyone. Also, if you make a negative Blue Board entry too early after delivery, the client can claim that there were quality problems, and then Proz will take down your entry. Hence, it's best to wait a couple of months after delivery before making negative Blue Board entries, in which case it is too late for the client to claim there were quality problems.
As for debt collection, it obviously depends on which country it is. Have you tried the phone? Amazingly, it sometimes helps. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson 
Spain
Local time: 14:05
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Possibilities | Mar 29, 2019 |
Teresa Woischiski wrote:
In the end I had to refuse to work on the second half of the project due to this.
It sounds to me as though you had every reason to stop working with the client. But it's possible that they think they don't have to pay you because you withdrew from the project. I once had to sue a teaching client for a very similar reason -- they were adamant that, because the student pulled out, they didn't have to pay for the hours I'd put in. Of course, the court showed them they were mistaken  .
Maybe that's the reason for their silence. Or could it be because they're bankrupt, or at least in severe difficulties? Have you investigated that possibility? If they've already filed, there's no point doing anything at all apart from registering your claim officially, and then moving on.
So my question: I need a recommendation how to proceed to get my payment. Would you do a blue board entry right away? Or threaten to do so? If no sign after the 3rd payment reminder: should I contact a collection agency?
I agree with Thomas about waiting before posting a BB entry. And also about trying other methods of contact. Maybe the one person you're trying to contact is no longer with the company and their email address isn't being monitored, or whatever. Or maybe that person is blocking you but another person in the same company would react very differently to contact from you.
Once you've exhausted reminders, there are a few ways to proceed, including:
- If the client is in your country or elsewhere in the EU then it's both easy and cheap to sue them in the small claims courts.
- If a sufficiently large sum is involved, a debt recovery company close to the client will probably be happy to take it on, for a fee. That's the better option if the company is in financial difficulty as they will act fast -- even if they take around 30%, it will be better than the zero you're likely to get from the official receiver.
- If they belong to a professional association then that body may have some leverage. Their members are supposed to adhere to ethical standards, and not paying suppliers is certainly not how they'd expect their members to behave.
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thanks both for your answers. Okay, that makes sense and I will wait with the blue board entry.
I will first send 2 more payment reminder, as it might be possible that they wait with the payment until they got paid from the client. Which was later than when I sent in the invoice, so past 30 days, but I can imagine it.
Additionally and in the meantime, I could get in touch with him via Skype, as that was the way we communicated during the project. But I would prefer not to, as ... See more thanks both for your answers. Okay, that makes sense and I will wait with the blue board entry.
I will first send 2 more payment reminder, as it might be possible that they wait with the payment until they got paid from the client. Which was later than when I sent in the invoice, so past 30 days, but I can imagine it.
Additionally and in the meantime, I could get in touch with him via Skype, as that was the way we communicated during the project. But I would prefer not to, as he does not act in a professional job supplier-translator way, but is rather disrespectful and almost ridiculing me. No respect whatsoever. So I am not sure if I want to put myself in this position again, as he manipulated all conversations and turned the meaning around that it was hard the real point across to him. As if it was some kind of rhetoric game for him.
But it would be a way to get through to him directly. SO I am not sure. ▲ Collapse
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| Have you checked their BB? | Mar 29, 2019 |
Teresa,
Have you checked this company's Blue Board record? What does it say? The type of communication (method and style) is unfortunately typical of some agencies in a certain South-Asian country that I myself avoid for business entirely, due to the risks.
As to waiting a "couple of months" before submitting an entry, I disagree with Thomas. As soon as the contracted payment deadline is over, you should start sending reminders, and if you get no reply in a reasonable timefram... See more Teresa,
Have you checked this company's Blue Board record? What does it say? The type of communication (method and style) is unfortunately typical of some agencies in a certain South-Asian country that I myself avoid for business entirely, due to the risks.
As to waiting a "couple of months" before submitting an entry, I disagree with Thomas. As soon as the contracted payment deadline is over, you should start sending reminders, and if you get no reply in a reasonable timeframe, you can make your BB entry describing the facts (payment is overdue x weeks, no reply to reminders). I am not sure whether the company gets a notification about BB entries made on their page, but even if they do, this is not threatening or anything, as you simply describe the facts and your willingness to work with them in the future (you already told them no, so no news there for them). Your entry would help others avoid this company, or alert them to demand payment if they are in the same situation as you are.
As to the quality complaint, I think a couple of weeks is plenty enough for anyone to raise concerns about the quality of the delivered work. No need to allow months to pass. The problem with your case is that (according to your post) they were already making claims via Skype that the translation was bad. If that happened soon after delivery, then it is a problem, because according to the exact letter of the Blue Board rules, you cannot make a BB entry if the client had quality concerns. Of course, you can fight it, proving that the complaint was never substantiated, and ProZ staff may investigate and conclude that the company did not justify its complaint, but you cannot be sure of that.
How much money is at stake here? ▲ Collapse
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Hello Katalin
Thanks for your answer.
The company has different entries. Some good and 2 bad in terms of money. Either not paid or only paid after the BB entry. The others were good.
We are talking about approx. 1000 Eur here.
Best regards
Teresa
Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:
Teresa,
Have you checked this company's Blue Board record? What does it say? The type of communication (method and style) is unfortunately typical of some agencies in a certain South-Asian country that I myself avoid for business entirely, due to the risks.
As to waiting a "couple of months" before submitting an entry, I disagree with Thomas. As soon as the contracted payment deadline is over, you should start sending reminders, and if you get no reply in a reasonable timeframe, you can make your BB entry describing the facts (payment is overdue x weeks, no reply to reminders). I am not sure whether the company gets a notification about BB entries made on their page, but even if they do, this is not threatening or anything, as you simply describe the facts and your willingness to work with them in the future (you already told them no, so no news there for them). Your entry would help others avoid this company, or alert them to demand payment if they are in the same situation as you are.
As to the quality complaint, I think a couple of weeks is plenty enough for anyone to raise concerns about the quality of the delivered work. No need to allow months to pass. The problem with your case is that (according to your post) they were already making claims via Skype that the translation was bad. If that happened soon after delivery, then it is a problem, because according to the exact letter of the Blue Board rules, you cannot make a BB entry if the client had quality concerns. Of course, you can fight it, proving that the complaint was never substantiated, and ProZ staff may investigate and conclude that the company did not justify its complaint, but you cannot be sure of that.
How much money is at stake here?
| | | | | Forget the reminders, politely, but firmly claim your due | Mar 29, 2019 |
You say you have already sent a couple of reminders. This means that the client has already had the opportunity to say they do not agree that the money is owed, yet they have not done so. They did allege there were quality problems, but do not seem to have produced any evidence of that. Two possibilities remain: one, they don't want to pay you; two they cannot pay you.
It is often more tricky in the early stages to get money from someone who does not want to pay you than someone who... See more You say you have already sent a couple of reminders. This means that the client has already had the opportunity to say they do not agree that the money is owed, yet they have not done so. They did allege there were quality problems, but do not seem to have produced any evidence of that. Two possibilities remain: one, they don't want to pay you; two they cannot pay you.
It is often more tricky in the early stages to get money from someone who does not want to pay you than someone who currently cannot pay you. It's the difference between clients acting in bad faith or in good faith. In both cases, you need to send a formal claim for your money, giving your client a clear deadline by which they must pay your invoice, stating that if they do not pay up, you will take action for recovery. (Any statutory and/or contractual claim for interest and penalties should be mentioned at this stage).
Prepare your plan of action. Be in a position to take action for recovery if your client does not pay by the deadline. At this stage, I generally give 10 days after receipt of the letter, sent through a recorded delivery service. Remember, they are the ones in the wrong, they are the ones who are late. 10 days is enough.
Type of action for recovery. There are probably online procedures depending on where you are, where your client is and the amount owed. This will mean you do not have to pay the services of a debt collection agency. For larger sums it can be worth it though.
You explain that the agency might be expecting that you wait until they have been paid by the end client. If so, remind the agency in your formal 10-day letter that your contract is with the agency, not the end-client. If the end client pays late, or does not pay at all, that is not your problem; it is the risk an agency takes, not the freelancer. Indeed, theoretically at least, that is one of the reasons a freelancer works with an agency, as it offers some protection against later payment.... theoretically. Sadly, it is one of the common excuses for late payment, but it is unacceptable. Your contract is with the agent, the agent is responsible for paying you. The other side of the story is not your concern. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Business ethics are nonexistent in certain parts of the world | Mar 30, 2019 |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:
In both cases, you need to send a formal claim for your money, giving your client a clear deadline by which they must pay your invoice, stating that if they do not pay up, you will take action for recovery. (Any statutory and/or contractual claim for interest and penalties should be mentioned at this stage).
Prepare your plan of action. Be in a position to take action for recovery if your client does not pay by the deadline. At this stage, I generally give 10 days after receipt of the letter, sent through a recorded delivery service. Remember, they are the ones in the wrong, they are the ones who are late. 10 days is enough.
Unfortunately, reminders, claims, requests, firm or polite, may be completely ignored. Chasing them, including sending anything by recorded mail, or engaging a collection agency may be quite difficult and fruitless.
We must be aware of early signs of "different concepts" of doing business (changing deadlines, rudeness, disregard for normal business - or even waking - hours) and disengage as soon as possible.
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Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:
We must be aware of early signs of "different concepts" of doing business (changing deadlines, rudeness, disregard for normal business - or even waking - hours) and disengage as soon as possible.
Even VERBAL agreements through SKYPE. I mean I expect you would have no proof of change of deadlines, quality issues, verbal abuse etc. unlike written exchanges even through SKYPE. There have been many very good suggestions here which you can take up and escalate so hopefully, you get your dues. Good luck.
[Edited at 2019-03-30 06:29 GMT]
| | | | | I will take next steps | Mar 30, 2019 |
Josephine Cassar wrote: Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:
We must be aware of early signs of "different concepts" of doing business (changing deadlines, rudeness, disregard for normal business - or even waking - hours) and disengage as soon as possible. Even VERBAL agreements through SKYPE. I mean I expect you would have no proof of change of deadlines, quality issues, verbal abuse etc. unlike written exchanges even through SKYPE. There have been many very good suggestions here which you can take up and escalate so hopefully, you get your dues. Good luck. [Edited at 2019-03-30 06:29 GMT]
Hi Josephine,
it was written text via Skype. No call. So I have everything.
I will research now a bit what my options are. A colleague of mine recommended me a collection agency for outside of Europe. One question: what can happen if I give a low score on blueboard, can he comment it and try to write negative feedback about me so it could affect me as translator? Maybe someone has experience with writing low scores there?
Thanks
Teresa
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Hi Teresa,
Moving delivery times forward and calling at night are totally unacceptable practices, which justify your decision to stop working with them. I also find Skype messages quite intrusive.
In my experience, the BB is an extremely effective means of securing payment.
1. Your BB entry must be approved by the ProZ staff, which means it is allowed only if it is found to be justified.
2. The agency has the option to reply, but not to leave a negative fee... See more Hi Teresa,
Moving delivery times forward and calling at night are totally unacceptable practices, which justify your decision to stop working with them. I also find Skype messages quite intrusive.
In my experience, the BB is an extremely effective means of securing payment.
1. Your BB entry must be approved by the ProZ staff, which means it is allowed only if it is found to be justified.
2. The agency has the option to reply, but not to leave a negative feedback (AFAIK).
You should present your case briefly and convincingly when submitting the BB entry.
I am pretty sure that ProZ has seen a lot of dishonest agencies trying to avoid payment under the pretext of poor work quality. I think it's up to the agency to prove that.
One detail I was not aware of is that, when an outsourcer accumulates a certain number of negative feedbacks (two?), it is banned from posting jobs on ProZ, which is a powerful deterrent for outsourcers.
Good luck,
HTH,
Sandra ▲ Collapse
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Teresa Woischiski wrote:
Hi Josephine,
it was written text via Skype. No call. So I have everything.
I will research now a bit what my options are. A colleague of mine recommended me a collection agency for outside of Europe. One question: what can happen if I give a low score on blueboard, can he comment it and try to write negative feedback about me so it could affect me as translator? Maybe someone has experience with writing low scores there?
Thanks
Teresa
Teresa, I'm glad to see your communication was by messenger, so you have a copy of the exchanges as you will need them to prove the BB entry. I had made a negative one and needed to prove the agency deserved it but the agency did not contact me after. anyway, I had provided enough proof so Proz. accepted my BB entry for this agency. I would suggest keeping comments to a minimum (or nil) and just mark the grades - communication, respects deadlines, payment, payment terms, etc, then whoever wants to know more, will contact you. Don't let them bully you. Good luck.
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Hi Sandra,
that is great to know. I will proceed now with further steps, if he does not pay until tomorrow, which was the deadline of my first payment reminder. Now it is around 5 weeks due.
It is very helpful to have all of you support me in it. It helps a lot.
Thank you very much.
Teresa
Sandra& Kenneth wrote:
Hi Teresa,
Moving delivery times forward and calling at night are totally unacceptable practices, which justify your decision to stop working with them. I also find Skype messages quite intrusive.
In my experience, the BB is an extremely effective means of securing payment.
1. Your BB entry must be approved by the ProZ staff, which means it is allowed only if it is found to be justified.
2. The agency has the option to reply, but not to leave a negative feedback (AFAIK).
You should present your case briefly and convincingly when submitting the BB entry.
I am pretty sure that ProZ has seen a lot of dishonest agencies trying to avoid payment under the pretext of poor work quality. I think it's up to the agency to prove that.
One detail I was not aware of is that, when an outsourcer accumulates a certain number of negative feedbacks (two?), it is banned from posting jobs on ProZ, which is a powerful deterrent for outsourcers.
Good luck,
HTH,
Sandra
| | | | | Question about the agency ban and still receiving blue board feedback | Apr 1, 2019 |
Dear all,
the agency in question has been banned from posting jobs on Proz in 2013. Nevertheless, there are recent comments about it on blue board (from 2013-2018) and they also still post jobs on Proz.
So I saw that the name is slightly different in the list of blue board than the one he posts from now.
Also, the address is different in the Blue board agency description than the one he gave me for the invoice. Could it be that he tried to trick Proz and ... See more Dear all,
the agency in question has been banned from posting jobs on Proz in 2013. Nevertheless, there are recent comments about it on blue board (from 2013-2018) and they also still post jobs on Proz.
So I saw that the name is slightly different in the list of blue board than the one he posts from now.
Also, the address is different in the Blue board agency description than the one he gave me for the invoice. Could it be that he tried to trick Proz and slightly changed the name and address? I think this is something to look into. Who can help me with that? I don't want to mention any names here.
Thank you.
Best regards,
Teresa Woischiski ▲ Collapse
| | | | Yoana Ivanova
Estonia
Local time: 16:05
English to Bulgarian
+ ...
| Support request | Apr 1, 2019 |
Teresa Woischiski wrote:
Dear all,
the agency in question has been banned from posting jobs on Proz in 2013. Nevertheless, there are recent comments about it on blue board (from 2013-2018) and they also still post jobs on Proz.
So I saw that the name is slightly different in the list of blue board than the one he posts from now.
Also, the address is different in the Blue board agency description than the one he gave me for the invoice. Could it be that he tried to trick Proz and slightly changed the name and address? I think this is something to look into. Who can help me with that? I don't want to mention any names here.
Thank you.
Best regards,
Teresa Woischiski
Hi Teresa,
You don't have to mention any names to us. You can submit a support request with any information, doubts, screenshots, proof that you have, and ProZ staff will investigate the claim.
Best regards,
Yoana Ivanova
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