Glossary entry

français term or phrase:

en deniers ou quittances

anglais translation:

in (cash) funds or receipts [for payments already made to the other party on account]

Added to glossary by Charlotte Allen
Feb 6, 2006 22:20
19 yrs ago
20 viewers *
français term

en deniers ou quittances

français vers anglais Droit / Brevets Droit (général) Judgement of the Court of Cassation
"...l’arrêt a condamné ceux-ci, in solidum, à payer en deniers ou quittances au [name of insurer] la somme de XXXXX"

I'm not sure what this means or whether there is a stock legal phrase for it. Help!

Discussion

Charlotte Allen (asker) Feb 7, 2006:
Thanks to everyone for getting their brains to work on this one. In the end I sort of stumbled across the answer elsewhere, but I gave some points to Bourth because he is right that this does mean 'receipts' in the ordinary sense of the word, and because I wanted to get an entry into the glossary to 'counteract' the earlier, erroneous one.
Sylvia Smith Feb 7, 2006:
I see. Thank your for the detailed explanation, Charlotte. Always a learning experience!
Charlotte Allen (asker) Feb 7, 2006:
Sylvia: Now that's really weird, because I've been searching for both 'deniers' and 'quittances' in Kudoz, and didn't find the reference you found. Having said that, I think in that case the answer was a likely-sounding guess, and is not really accurate. I also think you're misinterpreting the bit about 'imputer les versements'. I'm 99% sure it's talking about payments made on account by the party at fault BEFORE judgement is rendered, in view of the possible outcome of the case. However, the quote implies that the injured party might be tempted to claim that this money had gone towards settling some other debt they were owed by the defaulting party (unconnected with the case), or that they had put it towards disputed interest owing or legal costs, and that the main lump sum of damages was still due (and thus still incurring interest!). For this reason, this quote suggests that the Court should always explicitly state that X amount has already been paid on account, and reduce the amount of damages accordingly, rather than relying on the 'quittances' to prove the payment on account. Otherwise, there's a risk of the parties having to come back before the 'juge de l'ex�cution et de recours' to resolve the dispute over whether the damages have actually been paid or not.
Charlotte Allen (asker) Feb 7, 2006:
Or are we? It is not that the applicant OWES the defendant anything, necessarily, it is that the defendant has ALREADY PAID something to the applicant, and presumably the 'quittances' refers to receipts that the applicant gave to the defendant in respect of the sum already paid, and which the defendant now submits as proof that money has already changed hands. But how to express this?
Charlotte Allen (asker) Feb 7, 2006:
Just found this... "Il convient, chaque fois qu'il est possible, d'�viter les condamnations "en deniers ou quittances". Il ne faut pas perdre de vue, en effet, qu'une telle formule peut �tre source de difficult�s, de contestations devant le juge de l'ex�cution et de recours contre sa d�cision, le cr�ancier pr�tendant, par exemple, imputer les versements effectu�s � une cr�ance autre que celle vis�e par la condamnation ou les imputer d'abord au paiement de frais ou d'int�r�ts contest�s. Lorsque le d�biteur all�gue avoir vers� des acomptes, il convient que la cour d'appel les mentionne et les d�duise de la cr�ance, m�me si cela devait retarder quelque peu la cl�ture de l'instruction ou conduire � la r�ouverture des d�bats. La qualit� de la d�cision et son efficacit� en d�pendront."

I suspect it may be referring either to 'payments into court', the practice of paying a certain sum to the court at the start of a case, which carries certain benefits for the defendant, or to payments which the defendant may have made 'on account' to the applicant. The above quote seems to be saying that if any such payments have been made, the applicant must normally use these first to off-set the sum due under the court case, and not apply them to any other debts which may exist.

So we are back to this notion of 'off-sets' or 'setting off'.

Proposed translations

1 heure
Selected

cash or receipts

"deniers of course is legalese for "money", "comptant" (as opposed to "espèces", "liquide"). When you by a house, the deed records the buyer's contribution "de ses propres deniers" as well as the bank loan. Whether "cash" is appropriate, I don't know.

As for "quittance", you may have context that would support my interpretatin here.

The Dalloz legal dictionary I believe you have gives no definition for "quittance" other than the standard meaning of "receipt", as in "quittance de loyer", what your landlord gives you when you pay the rent.

I can only imagine that despite what the insured party might have done to be in the wrong, the Insurer actually owes him money, and that this money can be used to pay the sum owed (back) to the Insurer by having the insured party make out a receipt for the money owed to him but which he will not see the colour of.

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Note added at 1 hr (2006-02-06 23:56:16 GMT)
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There must be a legal term for writing off a debt (which is what this quittance could be).

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Note added at 1 hr (2006-02-07 00:00:19 GMT)
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Of course "writing off" is by the other party. Something like "dismissal of debt"; gets some ghits anyway.
Peer comment(s):

neutral Rafael Wugalter (X) : I think that the last two notes are getting at the meaning. A quittance can be a forgiveness of debt or a set-off. I"n cash or by way of set-off" might be a way of expressing this.
31 minutes
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2 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "What a lot of points I'm giving you today! Actually, I'm not giving you all the points on this one, because although you were right that it's talking about literal receipts, I actually found the complete answer elsewhere."
+1
46 minutes

cash or monetary instruments

***
Peer comment(s):

agree Abdellatif Bouhid
35 minutes
lai jazik bikhir akhai
agree Thierry LOTTE
1 heure
muchas gracias compañero!
disagree Rafael Wugalter (X) : (with respect) see my own entry
1 heure
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+1
2 heures

in cash or by way of set-off

The setting off of debts (or monetary obligations) against each other is, strictly speaking, known as "compensation" in civil law, but an English-speaking reader will know what set-off is. I don't think the French authors used the best term here, which is why there may be some confusion.
Peer comment(s):

agree Neil Crockford : in cash or for value, perhaps
7 heures
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9 heures

funds or third-party loans / credit facilities

First, I am not sure they are talking about 'cash' exactly, because cash is not tracable as described in the following sentences.

Second, it sounds like they are talking about someone taking out a loan, overdraft, credit facility from another institution ("imputer les versements...les imputer...") and using the receipts from this loan ("quittances") as proof. For example, see "prêteur de deniers" in the following Kudoz posts:

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/215968

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/557347

And this is the same phrase ("deniers ou quittances") already in Kudoz, although I am not sure of the accuracy of the answer selected:

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/842758
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10 heures

in cash or receipts (as proof of payment over to third parties)

Charllotte?
I've taken a back-to-front approach on this one. Starting with what can happen in practice I then tried to see if I could fit a meaning into that possibility, rather than seeing if the words fit around a context.

My good ol’ Robert & Collins suggests for « deniers » :

« monnaie, histoire romaine/française, denarius, farthing … »

Perhaps the use of « quittances » here suggests that monies are in fact due to a third party (to the claimant in the case of insurance, maybe) and that a receipt here is used to confirm payment over to that third party. What I mean is, the insurer can receive money in part payment for the claimant and documentary evidence in the form of receipt to confirm that the total amount due has been paid over.


1 – http://europa.eu.int/eurodicautom/Controller

One indication that apart from references to public monies, that it may just mean plain old cash.

1)
TERM
comptes en deniers et matières

Reference
Vocabulaire du budget des CE,SdT/202/92,d'après le Dict.économique et financier,Bernard et Colli,Seuil,1989,p.530 et 380

Note
{NTE} comptabilité deniers:comptabilité retraçant les opérations en monnaie,par opposition à la comptabilité matières qui enregistre les mouvements d'objets et de marchandises,détenus en magasin en prenant en compte l'unité matérielle et non la valeur


(1)
TERM
accounts of cash or materials

Reference
Vocabulary of the budget of the EC,SdT/202/92


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