This question was closed without grading. Reason: Autre
Sep 11, 2022 07:33
1 yr ago
64 viewers *
français term
Seulement pour elles, c’est bien pire
FVA
français vers anglais
Autre
Général / conversation / salutations / correspondance
I am translating a book about photograher Jacques Henri Lartigue from French into Chinese. Here are two paragraphes abstracted from his diary talking about photography.
I don't understand the logic. For example, in "Seulement pour elles, c’est bien pire", if "elles" refers to "photos", how come "c’est bien pire pour elles"? Besides, what is the relationship between the first and the second paragraphes?
FYI, I think "mode" in this context has nothing to do with photography, since he did not work as a professional photographer at that time although he did it once in a while to make some money. However, he consistently makes his photo album in all his life as a hobby.
Would you please give me your idea? I appreciate your help.
Mai 1925
Soir. Tard. Fouillis dans ma tête. Je viens de regarder des photos qui, elles, ne passent pas encore ! Seulement pour elles, c’est bien pire : en quelques mois le changement de mode transforme le charme en vulgarité, le chic et la gentille excentricité en une espèce de « simplicité vulgaire », lourde et commune ! Car, après s’être moqué ou critiqué, tout le monde copie. Alors, ces photos pour lesquelles je donne tant de moi-même, car elles sont une sorte de « consolation » aux déceptions que j’ai en écrivant ou en peignant, bien rangées et bien « solides »… si elles ne s’abîment pas, vont simplement abîmer mes souvenirs !
Décidément, on ne peut pas faire de confitures ni de conserves de ses émerveillements.
I don't understand the logic. For example, in "Seulement pour elles, c’est bien pire", if "elles" refers to "photos", how come "c’est bien pire pour elles"? Besides, what is the relationship between the first and the second paragraphes?
FYI, I think "mode" in this context has nothing to do with photography, since he did not work as a professional photographer at that time although he did it once in a while to make some money. However, he consistently makes his photo album in all his life as a hobby.
Would you please give me your idea? I appreciate your help.
Mai 1925
Soir. Tard. Fouillis dans ma tête. Je viens de regarder des photos qui, elles, ne passent pas encore ! Seulement pour elles, c’est bien pire : en quelques mois le changement de mode transforme le charme en vulgarité, le chic et la gentille excentricité en une espèce de « simplicité vulgaire », lourde et commune ! Car, après s’être moqué ou critiqué, tout le monde copie. Alors, ces photos pour lesquelles je donne tant de moi-même, car elles sont une sorte de « consolation » aux déceptions que j’ai en écrivant ou en peignant, bien rangées et bien « solides »… si elles ne s’abîment pas, vont simplement abîmer mes souvenirs !
Décidément, on ne peut pas faire de confitures ni de conserves de ses émerveillements.
Proposed translations
(anglais)
Change log
Sep 11, 2022 16:11: philgoddard changed "Field" from "Art / Littérature" to "Autre"
Proposed translations
19 minutes
Ana Vozone
Specializes in field
Will do!
Native in: portugais (Variant: European/Portugal) 
Works in: anglais vers portugais, français vers portugais, allemand vers portugais, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
8
(Only that)(But)(However) for these, it is even worse
However, as far as these photos are concerned, it is even worse.... si elles ne s’abîment pas, vont simplement abîmer mes souvenirs !
Example sentence:
The Cherry MX Black Silent, on the other hand, are similar to the Red in construction and performance, only that for these it is necessary to exert an activation pressure of 60cN.
Note from asker:
| Thanks！ |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Daryo
: you jumped too far - this is only the indirect effect. What is introduced by "Seulement pour elles, ..." is the fact that "trends/current fashion" in photography were about to shift dramatically and what was once "chic" was about to become "démodé".
21 heures
|
| neutral |
ph-b (X)
: Le sens est exact, mais la tournure est-elle idiomatique ?
1 jour 21 heures
|
-1
1 jour 14 heures
AllegroTrans
Royaume-Uni
Royaume-Uni
Native in anglais
Specializes in field
Royaume-Uni
Sensible solutions
Native in: anglais (Variant: Wessexois)
Works in: français vers anglais, anglais, anglais vers français
Related KudoZ points
:
115
Only these are even worse
I think this can be simplified down to this
Note from asker:
| Thank you! |
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
ph-b (X)
: Grossière erreur de registre + « elles » est l'objet de la phrase, pas son sujet. Voir discussion et notamment la partie sur les avis autorisés.
6 heures
|
-2
22 heures
(but) what is more, (regarding these pictures) there is s.t. even worse
Soir. Tard. Fouillis dans ma tête. Je viens de regarder des photos qui, elles, ne passent pas encore !
=
He's looking at some of his pictures and he's not happy with them - they are still not good enough to be "acceptable" according to "la mode du jour" i.e. the prevailing "fashion/trend" in what is considered as "good" photography at the time when they were taken
Seulement pour elles, c’est bien pire
=
"Seulement ..." literally: "the only thing is ..." but here it's more:
(but) what is more, (regarding these pictures) there is s.t. even worse
the "even worst thing" (even worst than not being "au goût de l'époque" / "au goût du jour") is that the prevailing trends (the "fashionable views about what is "good" photography) were about to shift dramatically and these photos would anyway be turned into "outdated rubbish" even if they had managed to be "really good" at the time when taken.
There are "trends/prevailing fashion/" in photography characteristic of different periods: often you can make a pretty good guess when a picture was taken, give or take 5-10 years.
the indirect consequence of that being:
si elles ne s’abîment pas, vont simplement abîmer mes souvenirs
if (these photos that turned into rubbish) don't get damaged by the passage of time, they will damage my memories of that time.
It's a bit like shifting goalposts: you miss the goal, and then even worse happens - the whole goal disappears - moves elsewhere.
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Note added at 5 days (2022-09-16 11:56:19 GMT)
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Even "amateurs" get influenced by current trends / the "fashion of the day", and (most of them) try to conform and be "in". There are droves of "trend followers" and very few "trend setters" - that's how it usually works. So, not sure that being "amateur" or "pro" makes that much of a difference.
=
He's looking at some of his pictures and he's not happy with them - they are still not good enough to be "acceptable" according to "la mode du jour" i.e. the prevailing "fashion/trend" in what is considered as "good" photography at the time when they were taken
Seulement pour elles, c’est bien pire
=
"Seulement ..." literally: "the only thing is ..." but here it's more:
(but) what is more, (regarding these pictures) there is s.t. even worse
the "even worst thing" (even worst than not being "au goût de l'époque" / "au goût du jour") is that the prevailing trends (the "fashionable views about what is "good" photography) were about to shift dramatically and these photos would anyway be turned into "outdated rubbish" even if they had managed to be "really good" at the time when taken.
There are "trends/prevailing fashion/" in photography characteristic of different periods: often you can make a pretty good guess when a picture was taken, give or take 5-10 years.
the indirect consequence of that being:
si elles ne s’abîment pas, vont simplement abîmer mes souvenirs
if (these photos that turned into rubbish) don't get damaged by the passage of time, they will damage my memories of that time.
It's a bit like shifting goalposts: you miss the goal, and then even worse happens - the whole goal disappears - moves elsewhere.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 days (2022-09-16 11:56:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Even "amateurs" get influenced by current trends / the "fashion of the day", and (most of them) try to conform and be "in". There are droves of "trend followers" and very few "trend setters" - that's how it usually works. So, not sure that being "amateur" or "pro" makes that much of a difference.
Note from asker:
| Thank you for your detailed reply! I like this last sentence. The only problem is he was not a professional photographer when he wrote this. He took photos only for fun and keep a record of his life. So I don’t think the change of mode would bother him very much. |
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
ph-b (X)
: Pa sûr de comprendre votre explication, mais certain du pléonasme de la traduction + vous arrivez à rendre une traduction en anglais plus longue que la source en français ? Chapeau !
22 heures
|
|
J'y pige que dalle donc suis pas d'accord? Une façon comme une autre de voir les choses. // Oui, en règle générale, c'est le contraire. Mais "l'exception confirme la règle", n'est-ce pas?
|
|
| disagree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: Makes no sense whatsoever in the context. "Even worst" LOL
23 jours
|
40 jours
Kole Wright
États-Unis
États-Unis
Native in anglais
Works in field
États-Unis
The English of Science & Technology
Native in: anglais (Variant: US)
Works in: français vers anglais, allemand vers anglais, islandais vers anglais
These photos aren't degrading - it's worse. Every few months...
I believe the intended contrast is between physical degradation (passer) of the photo vs "psychological degradation", i.e. seeing the subjects of old photos that he considers no longer up to his current talent and feeling shame at seeing them, although at the moment of taking them he was pround.
In short, cringing at one's own past work is worse than that work being destroyed
In short, cringing at one's own past work is worse than that work being destroyed
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Tony M
: I see your point — but I think this is falling into the 'faux ami' trap of 'dégrader'.
1 heure
|
Discussion
@ph-b : Vous avez bien raison. Je vais essayer de poster ma prochaine question dans la paire français- français!
Au cas où vous souhaiteriez rectifier le tir, vous pouvez poser la question en français seul : il suffit de demander le français comme langue source et comme langue cible. Vous devriez recevoir un grand nombre d'avis autorisés.
Quoi qu'il en soit, le sens de « seulement » ici est celui-ci :
« B. [Le plus souvent dans des loc. ou dans des tours de la lang. fam. et pop. parlée*]
1. [Souvent placé en tête de phrase ou de prop., sert à marquer une restriction ou une oppos. à ce qui vient d'être dit ou écrit] »
(http://stella.atilf.fr/Dendien/scripts/tlfiv5/advanced.exe?8...
* Le style de votre texte, un journal, se rapproche de la langue parlée.
Et juste pour le challenge, si j'avais à traduire la phrase demandée en anglais, j'écrirais par exemple : Except (that) it's much/a lot worse for them. Mais je laisse ça aux anglophones de naissance.
Décidément, on ne peut pas faire de confitures ni de conserves de ses émerveillements.
There are definitely no literal jams nor cans of anything involved.
Pour elles ( les photos) la déception que Lartigue éprouve est encore plus forte ( c'est encore pire ) par rapport à celle qu'il éprouve eu égard à ses écrits ou à sa peinture.
However, it is not absolutely certain that he is referring to photographic talent since he mentions "elle, coquette et souriante" sitting beside him in his sports car at 7pm, possibly after spending the afternoon together ;-)
The photos don't "pass" — always tricky to translate, but perhaps here, something like "don't work" (we don't know if he means 'pass' in respect of some third party, like say a newspaper rejecting his pictures, but I don't see any clues to corroborate this) — or 'people (in general) don't accept / like them'.
Worse than that, not only do they not 'pass', but changing fashions mean that the qualities they do have today will not last long.
I think we need to understand the 'seulement' here as if written with a comma after it: "It's just that..." or "The only problem is..." We do use 'only' just like this in EN too, but it's perhaps too easy to read it in the other senses as "these specific photographs alone..."
I think 'mode' here means 'fashions' in the broader sense, rather than 'fashion' as in garments etc.
It seems to me the second paragraph is just bemoaning the fact that the photographs are by nature ephemeral, perceived and judged 'dans l'air du temps'.