This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
ZP
Approbation du P.A.R.
Dec 6, 2019 03:14
4 yrs ago
32 viewers *
français term

livret ordinaire de dépassement

français vers anglais Affaires / Finance Finance (général) Type of savings account
"Le livret réglementé relève de la garantie de l'Etat et le(s) livret(s) ordinaire(s) de dépassement associé(s) de la garantie des Dépôts."

CCM bank.

This question has been asked before here to no avail.
Proposed translations (anglais)
2 surplus/spare/supplementary (linked) savings account
4 -1 over-the-limit ordinary saving account
4 -1 excess/over contribution to a saving booklet

Discussion

Francois Boye Dec 7, 2019:
Over contribution, this is the concept of the financial literature, which you are groping at.

Please read the following:

https://www.doughroller.net/retirement-planning/happens-cont... .

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/158.asp
Conor McAuley (asker) Dec 7, 2019:
And culture-specific means that you can make up your own term, within reason.
Conor McAuley (asker) Dec 7, 2019:
You often hear people in France saying, "So and so is tight with his money, his Livret A is full", so French people get the concept perfectly well, it's just us poor foreigners who are bemused by the system and have to figure out how it works.
So, for me, the term is culture-specific, notwithstanding a small number of exceptions in the English-speaking world noted here.
Daryo Dec 7, 2019:
Having too much money in some account is not exactly unheard of in UK (if you know your basics about taxation, that is).

There are some accounts that are "more favourable/privileged" in comparison with "ordinary" accounts, and the amount you can put into them is limited.


Like TESSA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax-exempt_special_savings_acc... ...
Wolf Draeger Dec 7, 2019:
Surplus savings account? From Ph_B's description and a quick look online, it sounds like "surplus" is the idea and makes more sense than overflow or excess.

Fwiw, the Bank of Cyprus for one offers such a "surplus savings account" (https://www.bankofcyprus.com.cy/en-gb/retail/deposits/saving...

I doubt the concept or the term has much *ahem* currency in the Anglosphere, but at least "surplus savings" is relatively self-explanatory if a little puzzling. Could it work here?
Conor McAuley (asker) Dec 6, 2019:
Many thanks Ph_B. I think "overflow" (I used inverted commas in my text too) is the shortest way around it. I think the whole concept of having too much money in a savings account does not translate culturally, so explaining the concept of the Livret A would require a VERY long footnote!
Ph_B (X) Dec 6, 2019:
What the text in your question means is dépassement du plafond autorisé. It is not an overdraft (as in dépassement du découvert autorisé). It's quite the contrary, actually. It means that you have more savings than what is allowed in a Livret A (assuming this is France). Read: dépasser la limite, dépassement du plafond. I don't know if "overflow" is the right English term in that field, but it is definitely the idea: you have so much money that you are over the limit allowed for a Livret A and need other savings accounts. And so, one type of account is guaranteed by the State (livret réglementé), while the "overflow"(?) accounts are protected by the FGDR.
Conor McAuley (asker) Dec 6, 2019:
As I understand it... ...money goes from a current account to a first savings account (a Livret A, for example, where there is a maximum), and if that maximum is reached, the excess goes to a secondary savings accounts, which pays less interest.
"Dépassement" does, for me also, suggest an overdraft, but that seems not to be the case.
Timothy Rake Dec 6, 2019:
I would venture rather “overdrawn”
Conor McAuley (asker) Dec 6, 2019:
Actually... "overflow" as per the previous answer, now strikes me as a good solution, because that's what happens, apparently.
Conor McAuley (asker) Dec 6, 2019:
Garantie des dépôts (FGDR) https://www.garantiedesdepots.fr/fr/garanties-du-fgdr/la-gar...
Conor McAuley (asker) Dec 6, 2019:
https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/livret-de-dépassemen...

Proposed translations

1 jour 16 heures
Selected

surplus/spare/supplementary (linked) savings account

Whenever I work on a text dealing with (or merely touching on) the French banking and taxation systems, a single term can turn into a bottomless rabbit hole, and this feels a bit like that.

So it seems the most popular savings account in France is the Livret A which is a type of compte d'épargne réglementé. Such accounts pay a fixed rate of interest (set by law) and are capped. But the interest is not taxed and all amounts are fully covered by deposit insurance.

Then you have types of savings accounts that are ordinaires meaning the interest earned on them is taxed and deposit insurance covers the amounts only up to a point.

I guess this partly explains why (untaxed) livrets réglementés are covered directly by the State and (taxed) livrets ordinaires are covered by the FGDR, even though it boils down to the same deposit insurance in both cases.

So much for cursory background. Where does dépassement come in? My best guess is that anyone wanting to put more of their money in a savings account (as opposed to insurance or riskier investments) will open one and link it to their Livret A or similar account so that all 'overflows' are automatically transferred to this additional savings account.

I've never heard of this kind of setup and have no idea if it exists outside France or in the Anglosphere. If you don't have the space to explain how French bank accounts work, perhaps "surplus", "spare" or even "supplementary" give enough of an idea (with "linked" as an optional add-on).

Bottom links relate to the Livret A; I'll add a bunch of other links in a minute.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 16 hrs (2019-12-07 19:49:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compte_d'épargne
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_de_dépôts_bancaires

https://mabanque.bnpparibas/fr/epargner/comptes-livrets-epar...
https://www.cbanque.com/placement/fiscalite.php

https://www.francetransactions.com/epargne/Livret-A.html
https://www.francetransactions.com/epargne/livret-a-plafond-...
https://www.francetransactions.com/epargne/Livrets-epargne-c...

https://www.boursedescredits.com/guide-depasser-plafond-livr...
https://www.capitaine-epargne.com/actualite-epargne/livret-r...

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode.do;jsessionid=EF1E...
Reference:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livret_A

http://www.economie.gouv.fr/particuliers/livret-a

Note from asker:
Wow, thanks Wolf!
Peer comment(s):
agree Ph_B (X) : with 'supplementary'. Dépassement means nothing else than "being over the limit". It does not imply any automatic overflow.
5 minutes
Ta, and thanks for your correction & insider view.
disagree Daryo : similar setup does exist at least in UK (TESSA) + ALL accounts are "regulated" i.e. banks must obey rules whatever is the type of account - the point is that "livret A" is tax-free! other accounts are ALSO "regulated" but subject to income tax.
4 heures
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Many thanks to everybody for your input. I think ordinary is NOT in opposition to "réglementé" (as the whole of the financial products products and services market is regulated by the ACPR), it means "taxable". That's my take on it. To a great extent it's a culture-specific term, hence "overflow" in inverted commas."
-1
1 jour 13 heures

over-the-limit ordinary saving account

On its own "over-the-limit ordinary saving account" does sound puzzling, about as much as "livret ordinaire de dépassement" - if you don't know the system and wonder what on earth could "dépassement" be referring to.

If you fancy it, you could also write a short story:

"ordinary saving account used to transfer payments made into a special privileged saving account that are over the allowed limit "

Whoever is reading this text MUST at some point take the trouble the take a close look a the whole system of "Livret A" and the linked "livret ordinaire de dépassement", so this should be enough.

BTW, I can't see nothing wrong with "overflow" - just because there are no accounts in UK of the "overflow (from some other account)" variety is no reason to discard a term that is perfectly illustrating what the account is used for.

I don't see why an "overflow account" would be more shocking than having boots and cakes in your computer ... (boot sector / booting / cookies ...)
Peer comment(s):
disagree Francois Boye : livret, said the text!
14 minutes
So what? For all practical purposes it's an account.
Something went wrong...
-1
1 jour 11 heures

excess/over contribution to a saving booklet

https://www.google.com/search?q=over contribution&ei=GLnrXZy...


https://www.boursedescredits.com/guide-depasser-plafond-livr...


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 11 hrs (2019-12-07 14:42:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Erratum: SAVINGS instead of saving

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 13 hrs (2019-12-07 17:05:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://www.boursedescredits.com/guide-depasser-plafond-livr...
Peer comment(s):
neutral Ph_B (X) : "excess/over" should apply to the savings account (assuming this is the right expression in E), not to the payments. The savings account described as ordinaire is "in excess of" the underlying (réglementé) account, not the amounts themselves
22 minutes
THe attachment in French is crystal clear: savings booklet stands for the balance of the same.//Agreed: the excess results from a rule: see the attachment in French.
disagree Daryo : what this says is: you put too much in some account, not quite the same as "this account is used to put into it excess payments into some other account" WHICH IS WHAT IT IS - if you take the trouble to explore the context (yes, that dirty word again ...)
1 heure
WHO SAID THAT: "this account is used to put into it excess payments into some other account"? Not me!
Something went wrong...
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Recherche par terme
  • Travaux
  • Forums
  • Multiple search