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"Diversity" in the translation industry
Auteur du fil: Gerard Barry

Gerard Barry
Allemagne
Local time: 23:19
allemand vers anglais
AUTEUR DU FIL
Freelance vs in-house Oct 26, 2020

@Maxi: Hi Maxi, I actually did work as a freelancer before but became tired of working on my own (and living with my parents). You're right, though: I can always go back to being a freelancer if I want to, which is a privileged position to be in.

 

expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 22:19
Membre (2015)
anglais vers portugais
+ ...
? Oct 26, 2020

Sadek_A wrote:

expressisverbis wrote:
I don't "like", I "agree". If our colleague made a remark directly to you that's because she saw something coming from you she didn't like, and she paid you back in kind. I usually agree with the most part of my colleagues in many threads.

Do you know how many times I've read things here, including some by you, that I strongly object to. Nevertheless, I've always kept silent about them. In another thread, you liked a post that included the word "groupie" in reference to a young woman. Plainly, author of that post was referring to that young woman as "bed & mattress" for 3 guys. I wanted to object to what he wrote and to what you liked, but then I decided to remain quiet about it. Remaining quiet is a form of objection, and way better then objecting impolitely like it has been happening towards my posts in this thread.


You must be mistaken. I don't remember that thread you are talking about. I became a more frequent user of these foruns since the pandemic.


 

expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 22:19
Membre (2015)
anglais vers portugais
+ ...
Where? Oct 26, 2020

Gerard Barry wrote:

@expressisverbis: Okay, we get it: women are better than men and we are far more dependent on you than the other way around.


Did I say that?


P.L.F.Persio
Chris S
 

Chris S  Identity Verified
Royaume-Uni
suédois vers anglais
+ ...
It’s a bit late to try to claim the moral high ground Oct 26, 2020

Sadek wrote:
Remaining quiet is a form of objection, and way better then objecting impolitely like it has been happening towards my posts in this thread.


Lol. How about you practise what you preach?


P.L.F.Persio
expressisverbis
Mervyn Henderson
Fatine777
 

Zibow Retailleau  Identity Verified
Maurice, république de
Local time: 02:19
Membre (2019)
anglais vers chinois
+ ...
In the one Oct 26, 2020

expressisverbis wrote:

Gerard Barry wrote:

@expressisverbis: Okay, we get it: women are better than men and we are far more dependent on you than the other way around.


Did I say that?


that I 'Liked'.


expressisverbis
 

expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 22:19
Membre (2015)
anglais vers portugais
+ ...
Sadeq: Oct 26, 2020

I'm sorry that you misunderstood my previous post and that you are drawing the wrong conclusions about me and about the stories I presented here.
The stories I provided only served one purpose: to confirm that problems like the ones being discussed here are not about gender, but about the individual.
I did not tell these because I wanted you to analyse them in your own way.
Usually, I don't look for or follow your posts to find out who you agree with, or whether you are reserve
... See more
I'm sorry that you misunderstood my previous post and that you are drawing the wrong conclusions about me and about the stories I presented here.
The stories I provided only served one purpose: to confirm that problems like the ones being discussed here are not about gender, but about the individual.
I did not tell these because I wanted you to analyse them in your own way.
Usually, I don't look for or follow your posts to find out who you agree with, or whether you are reserved or polite in your comments or not.
I may be wrong, but I don't have that opinion from what I can see here, and in another old thread where you were very rude with one of our colleagues, but let's leave it.
Neither you nor anyone here knows me, and you don't need to know whether I am shy or not, or what I am. It’s not your business. You only need to know I am a translator, a colleague or a fellow.
I would never feel uncomfortable if someone of a different religion prayed in front of me.
No, not at all. On the contrary, the lady who asked the other co-worker in order to leave that room explained it quite well: she is a Christian and we cannot pray with someone of other beliefs in the same room.
I am not lying, this was true. How did she know that I was a Christian? (Did I have something written on my forehead saying that?) But, it’s alright, I was sad at that time, but not offended. I tried to understand the lady.
Actually, I'm a Christian, yes, but more important things than my religion, are the moral values or principles that were instilled by my family to me.
I can’t tell you if the old man of the hotel was incompetent, racist, sexist or not, like you say. At that moment, I just found it was not very polite to make me wait that long.
My facial expressions and blood are Portuguese (I hope ), and the fact that he asked if I was Iranian... I came to know why later by my friends and fellows, and I didn't like it.
The word "evil" in my native language has several translations. If it is used by religious fanatics like you say, I don't know, because I never lived with them to hear it from them.
My participation in this discussion ends here because I know that we will not reach any conclusion, and each one of us has its own opinion, and we can’t do anything about that.
Also, I think that continuing this “debate” will not help or contribute with something useful to Garry's problem. I hope he can solve it soon and in the best way.
"Adeus!"

PS: When I agree with any of our colleagues in certain threads it is my way to show my "thanks" to them, it does not necessarily mean I agree with all their statements.

[Edited at 2020-10-26 12:31 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-10-26 12:33 GMT]
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P.L.F.Persio
Zibow Retailleau
 

Sadek_A  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:19
anglais vers arabe
+ ...
On "diversity"! Oct 26, 2020

What it already is:

- A PR campaign for some countries; put some ***"safe/reliable"*** persons of color in a few leadership positions here and there, tolerate some religious veils/beards/symbols, introduce few programs and initiatives to manufacture an image of tolerance, etc.
- A need for a surge in population and/or workforce for a number of other countries; where the need for you could well be temporary, receive you only for a while until you "sow" a new generation or until
... See more
What it already is:

- A PR campaign for some countries; put some ***"safe/reliable"*** persons of color in a few leadership positions here and there, tolerate some religious veils/beards/symbols, introduce few programs and initiatives to manufacture an image of tolerance, etc.
- A need for a surge in population and/or workforce for a number of other countries; where the need for you could well be temporary, receive you only for a while until you "sow" a new generation or until there is no professional need (by replacement/ageing/etc.) for you anymore.
*However, in both instances, you're only admitted if:
1- You say and do only what you're told to say and do.
2- You accept lower income and lifestyle than locals. (at a relative gap for leadership positions, and at a huge gap for non-leadership positions).
3- It will greatly help your case if you have a bunch of certain addictive, economy-fueling "habits", including but not limited to drinking, gambling, heavy clubbing and night-life, stocks and forex trading, etc.

Speaking from things I've seen in reality, BTW!

---------

What it should become:
- A sincere inclusion, based on a firm understanding that "we know you're different, we accept and respect that difference, and you're free to think, say and do whatever you want for as long as you abide by the law; the same law before which we will both (locals & foreigners) be equals and that will keep us both from insulting or disturbing each other in any way imaginable".
*In such an instance, we might:
Have a party/go on a trip/plan a vacation/etc. and not invite you (because, you know, we might do the same thing to our own family and friends, nothing personal!)
But, would never:
(Try to) Put you under (actual/metaphorical) siege, whether emotionally, mentally or physically.

Other than the immediate above, I don't care what color, race, religion, gender, quota, etc., is/are used!

That's how a correct diversity is done!
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Mervyn Henderson  Identity Verified
Espagne
Local time: 23:19
espagnol vers anglais
+ ...
I think he means me, Exy Oct 26, 2020

The Gang of Four I mentioned in the bar the other night. Did I really call her a groupie? That was rather remiss of me, true. I was under stress at the time.

expressisverbis
P.L.F.Persio
 

Sadek_A  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:19
anglais vers arabe
+ ...
It was just out of my politeness :) Oct 26, 2020

expressisverbis wrote:
My participation in this discussion ends here because I know that we will not reach any conclusion, and each one of us has its own opinion, and we can’t do anything about that.


I kept writing you back, because you kept writing me in the first place.

I was just being polite, and didn't want to leave you hanging in a way that can hurt your image, that's all.

Please, end it here and now. Farewell! 😄😂🤣


 

Jan Truper  Identity Verified
Allemagne
Local time: 23:19
anglais vers allemand
... Oct 26, 2020

Gerard Barry wrote:
I can always go back to being a freelancer if I want to, which is a privileged position to be in.


I don't want to reinforce any sentiments of victimhood you might possibly feel, but strictly from a business perspective, if you aim to establish yourself as a freelancer in what you yourself described as a female-dominated industry, it seems counterproductive to post misogynistic sounding content in a public forum dedicated to this industry.


Chris S
Zibow Retailleau
expressisverbis
Rachel Fell
P.L.F.Persio
Jean Dimitriadis
Tom in London
 

Chris S  Identity Verified
Royaume-Uni
suédois vers anglais
+ ...
One last try Oct 26, 2020

Sorry to be like a dog with a bone, but it’s hard to step away when you are misquoted (without apology or correction) and then mislabelled.

Gerard Barry wrote:

@Chris S: I couldn't give a damn what percentage of the population of London is from ethnic minorities. If a company is to go down the route of ridiculous quotas when it comes to hiring and promotions (which it shouldn't), then surely they should base their quotas on the national population, not the population of one city where a lot of the companies in that sector happen to be located? Otherwise you could have a situation where a qualified white person from a working class background in the north of England (for example) will lose out on a job to a more privileged, but perhaps less well qualified, black or brown person from London whose parents are doctors, lawyers, engineers, whatever.

There’s little point taking account of the ethnic make-up of the Shetlands when recruiting for a post in London... But fine, if you want truly equal opportunities, the net does need to be cast wider. In fact, to be entirely fair, you can’t stop at national, you need to go global. I wonder who a 30% quota will be discriminating against then?


Maybe to a leftist identitarian such as yourself that's fair but to me it's outrageous.

I admit I had to look “identitarian” up. I suggest you do too. I think you’ll find it means the opposite of what you think. It certainly does not describe me.


In any case, hiring based on ethnic or gender quotas is a farce. In the NHS, for example, people from "ethnic minorities" are statistically over-represented, yet we don't hear calls for greater "diversity" there, do we?


I think you have misunderstood the whole diversity argument. It’s about equality of opportunity, not equality of numbers.

The NHS has high levels of non-white staff for a very simple reason: there aren’t enough white people qualified or willing to do those jobs.

Law firms do not have a good reason for disproportionately low numbers of non-white staff. It is a result of discrimination. The quotas are therefore to right this wrong, to level the playing field, to give these people a fair chance.

It is not about hiring or promoting less able people on the basis of colour or gender. You’ve got it all wrong.


Jan Truper
Zibow Retailleau
expressisverbis
P.L.F.Persio
Sheila Wilson
Irene McClure
Becca Resnik
 

Gerard Barry
Allemagne
Local time: 23:19
allemand vers anglais
AUTEUR DU FIL
Double standards Oct 26, 2020

@Chris S: You said:

"The NHS has high levels of non-white staff for a very simple reason: there aren’t enough white people qualified or willing to do those jobs.

Law firms do not have a good reason for disproportionately low numbers of non-white staff. It is a result of discrimination. The quotas are therefore to right this wrong, to level the playing field, to give these people a fair chance."

I agree with you that the reason the NHS has a high percentag
... See more
@Chris S: You said:

"The NHS has high levels of non-white staff for a very simple reason: there aren’t enough white people qualified or willing to do those jobs.

Law firms do not have a good reason for disproportionately low numbers of non-white staff. It is a result of discrimination. The quotas are therefore to right this wrong, to level the playing field, to give these people a fair chance."

I agree with you that the reason the NHS has a high percentage of non-white is more than likely because of the lack of suitably qualified or willing white people to do the jobs. But how on earth do you come to the conclusion that the reason non-white people are (supposedly) underrepresented in the legal profession is because of discrimination? Have you any proof of this discrimination? If white people's under-representation in the NHS is down to lack of qualifications and/or interest, why can't the same logic be applied to non-white people's (apparent) under-representation in the legal profession? That's clearly a double standard. You should try thinking logically and not ideologically.
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Gerard Barry
Allemagne
Local time: 23:19
allemand vers anglais
AUTEUR DU FIL
No misogyny here Oct 27, 2020

@Jan Truper: I don't think anything I posted is misogynistic. If anything, I'm complaining about misandry. But if I do go freelance, I can always delete my profile here and set up a new one:)

 

Tom in London
Royaume-Uni
Local time: 22:19
Membre (2008)
italien vers anglais
Barry Murphy Oct 27, 2020

Gerard Barry wrote:

various things


I see from your profile that your real name is Barry Murphy and that like me, you're Irish (although you're probably not Irish like me). Here in the UK, being Irish means you're part of an ethnic minority. So although you don't seem to be in the UK, nevertheless I see all kinds of ways for you to exploit your minority status for all it's worth! Claim you're being treated badly because you're Irish ! Demand redress! Ask for apologies! Apply for compensation!

[Edited at 2020-10-27 10:56 GMT]


P.L.F.Persio
Chris S
 

Gerard Barry
Allemagne
Local time: 23:19
allemand vers anglais
AUTEUR DU FIL
Indeed I am Irish Oct 27, 2020

@Tom: Yes, I'm Irish. Not sure to what extent your post is tongue in cheek, but it's a fact that the Irish (both in Ireland and the UK) were treated very badly in the past by the British. Yet do we benefit from quotas and the like in companies? Of course not (and nor would I want to benefit from such nonsense). Ditto for other white "ethnics" in the UK such as Jews, Poles, etc.

 
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