Glossary entry

français term or phrase:

salivant

anglais translation:

mouth-watering

Added to glossary by Erzsébet Czopyk
Oct 23, 2015 16:38
8 yrs ago
3 viewers *
français term

salivant

français vers anglais Autre Vins / œnologie / viticulture Chablis
Note gustative d'un chablis:

Ce devrait être des vins plus salivants, plus toniques.

En cherchant j'ai trouvé qu'un vin salivant a une perception gustative un peu saline qui provoque dans la foulée un retour de salive. Comment traduire salivant dans ce cas?

Merci d'avance pour votre aide!
Change log

Oct 25, 2015 11:06: Erzsébet Czopyk Created KOG entry

Discussion

Sarah Blard (asker) Oct 24, 2015:
I referred this back to the client and I finally got an answer with further explanations!
"gourmand... avoir l'eau à la bouche"
Andrew Mason Oct 24, 2015:
Sarah, I promise this will be my last post on this. First I'm sorry to see that Erzsébet thinks I am trying to destroy her answer whereas all I'm trying to do is add my penn'orth to help - "The lady doth protest too much, methinks". As I say I'd be wary - if I were in a restaurant and the sommelier advised me to try a mouth-watering wine I would probably put him in the category of the wine-waiter I encountered in Australia once -when I selected chablis from the wine-list he said "OK, sir, would you like regular or super?". That is not a joke - it really happened. And if I was looking at wines in a winestore and found a bottle describing the contents as mouth-watering, I would put it back on the shelf and not in my basket. Anyway, I suggest you adapt your choice to the context in which you find the text and choose some suitable hyperbole from the Robert Parker list. He is after all a renowned expert and I notice, in passing, that mouthwatering does not appear in his list. Hope I've been helpful - that has at least been my objective. Good luck.
Rachel Fell Oct 24, 2015:
It's Chablis, so tannins aren't likely to be mentioned.
Erzsébet Czopyk Oct 24, 2015:
tannins http://antiwinesnob.com/wine-articles/whats-the-difference-b...

http://vinepair.com/wine-101/guide-to-tannins/

What You Need to Know about Tannins in Wine | Obsev
www.obsev.com/.../what-you-need-know-about-tannins-...
Gripping, lingering, mouth-watering, puckering. These are all sensations that tannins supply to wine. Sounds sexy, right? What's not sexy, is the ...
Erzsébet Czopyk Oct 24, 2015:
I found a nice glossary of wine terms https://www.erobertparker.com/info/glossary.asp
Carol Gullidge Oct 24, 2015:
Salivant I haven't found any refs to "salivant" in English-speaking sites on Google, but if I could, and if they really were used by the likes of Jancis Robinson, I'd certainly consider using that term
Carol Gullidge Oct 24, 2015:
Edgar's endorsement of mouth-watering is pretty convincing. He is using mouth-watering in the literal sense meaning meaning saliva-producing - as in wines with minerality (or a measure of salinity?). My problem with Erzsébet's suggestion lay in the fact that she appeared to be using mouth-watering as a synonym of appetising or delicious (and indeed, one of her links corroborates this). I think this is also very probably the very general meaning of mouth-watering (usually in connection with food) that Andrew was taking issue with.
Carol Gullidge Oct 23, 2015:
@ Rachel amazing :)
Rachel Fell Oct 23, 2015:
@Carol - or the Scots, who apparently have even more... http://www.gla.ac.uk/news/headline_424233_en.html
Erzsébet Czopyk Oct 23, 2015:
@Carol I love this sooo much: A bit like the Eskimos having hundreds of words for "snow"!
Erzsébet Czopyk Oct 23, 2015:
@Andrew, who told that? "technically-speaking, ALL wines are mouth-watering as the proposed answer explains."

You are British but your are according your profile map in France. Seems you want just destroy the answer, looking at it only from the technical point of view. Any liquid and practically, even a plastic cube which the 1-year-old kid puts into mouth when he discovers the world, can and will stimulate your salivary glands to work and producing saline. So on that basis you can call mouthwatering anything. But if we are talking about particular wine, calling it mouthwatering is not equals with evaluation of the reaction of the salivary glands, sorry. I am trying to explain something on the language which is not mine. You are Englishman, please, tell a word which one you would use and I will happily agree with you.
Andrew Mason Oct 23, 2015:
Sarah, You are a brave lady taking on wine translations - I avoid them like the plague for the very reasons you state. As I said , I'd be very wary using this expression, especially as, technically-speaking, ALL wines are mouth-watering as the proposed answer explains. Thus not a particularly distinguishing quality.
Carol Gullidge Oct 23, 2015:
@ Sarah As I already mentioned, you need to be ABSOLUTELY sure before submitting a translation! Without more context, "mouthwatering finish" sounds like a stab in the dark - a big mistake with wine translations.
If you can't find a convincing translation from a real wine expert, I'd suggest that you refer this back to the client, requesting further explanations or synonyms that might be easier to translate.

Sorry to be a bore, but I've done 100s of wine translations, and know some of the pitfalls. I also have to confess that although I've come across "mouthwatering wines" in websites on numerous occasions, this is my first encounter with "vins salivants". Nor does it get a mention in Lexivin… What I can say is that the French have many more wine terms than the English, so you will come across cases where we have only one word whereas the French have several, all with their own nuances. A bit like the Eskimos having hundreds of words for "snow"!
Sarah Blard (asker) Oct 23, 2015:
As Carol, I found out that "salivant" is often connected to "tannins". So I am still searching and still doubting of which term is best for this context. Maybe mouthwatering finish?...
Carol Gullidge Oct 23, 2015:
Andrew, re mouthwatering wines Here are just 3 for starters.
White wine - The Corkscrew
www.thecorkscrew.ie/white-wine.html
Items 1 - 10 of 182 - A traditional blend of southern French varieties that create a refreshing and crisp, mouthwatering wine. Lovely with lighter foods and on its ...
Wine & Spirits Magazine | Wine: Wines of the Month
www.wineandspiritsmagazine.com/S=0/wine/wom-archive/.../P10
A mouthwatering wine for oysters and clams on the half shell. —J.G.. Wine Review by J.G. on Mar 5th 2014 in Wines of the Month, Best Buy, White Discovery ...
Wine List | Royal George Hotel | Perth | Scotland | Perthshire |
theroyalgeorgehotel.co.uk/wine-list.html
DeWaal Young Wines, Chenin Blanc, Stellenbosch, South Africa (2). This wine is a refreshing mouthwatering wine, very easy to drink on its own or with seafood.

However, I'm still not 100% convinced that this is the term required here. Nor am I saying that it definitely isn't. Just that we shouldn't rule it in or out for the wrong reasons!
Erzsébet Czopyk Oct 23, 2015:
this is not a cheap wine Sauvignon Blanc, Nelson Estate 2012 £25.95 A mouth-watering wine with hints of green pepper, yellow plum, zesty citrus fruit and a vibrant, crisp finish. Region – Paarl, South Africa Grape Variety- Sauvignon Blanc
Erzsébet Czopyk Oct 23, 2015:
please www.dewaal.co.za/WineList.aspx?CLIENTID...
DeWaal Young Vines Sauvignon Blanc 2007. A refreshing, mouth-watering wine. Ideal for summer lunches. Young Vines was created out of the need to have a .

Visit Greece | Mouth-watering delicacies from the island of ...
www.visitgreece.gr/.../mouth_watering_delicacies_from...
Oldal lefordítása
... the white kakotrygis, muscat, the red petrokoritho, skopelitiko and rozaki are the most famous mouth-watering wine varieties of Corfu, an island boasting a rich ...

4 Mouth-Watering Wine Cocktails
vinepair.com/wine.../4-mouth-watering-wine-cocktails/
4 Wine Cocktail recipes to enjoy this winter. Check out these mouth-watering drinks that combine wine, herbs, spices, and sometimes even ...

Beer Liquor and Wine.cdr
rdgcc.ca/wp.../2014/.../Menus-Beer-Liquor-and-Wine.p...
A fruity mouth-watering wine with aromas and flavours of cherries and raspberries. This smooth, easy drinking wine has a lingering finish. 6 oz Glass $9.

lml drinks (is? liqueurs - Fiume
www.fiumewashington.co.uk/.../fiume-drinks-menu-ne...
A small percentage of Chardonnay is added to this fresh and and mouth-watering wine dominated by the Fiano grape.
Andrew Mason Oct 23, 2015:
Erzsébet Yes, but for food - I meant to put that in my first note. I doubt it would be used for wines.
Carol Gullidge Oct 23, 2015:
I would not reject anything simply on the grounds that it isn't "grandiose" enough. Wine buffs are as capable as anyone else of being down to earth, although it is true that many of their descriptive terms can seem quite obscure to the uninitiated. One thing is for certain: you cannot invent a term simply because you fondly imagine that anything goes in wine speak!

Having said all that, I've seen "tanins salivants" translated as "velvety tannins" and "finale salivante" as "mouth-watering finish", so the jury is still out as far as I'm concerned. Sadly, my usually trusty Lexivin does not mention "salivant"...
Erzsébet Czopyk Oct 23, 2015:
this term is used even here Gastronomy and Wine Culture - Embassy of Hungary
washington.kormany.hu › Homepage › About Hungary
Hungarian Haute Cuisine in the Grand Hyatt and Hyatt Regency in ... Mouth-watering, spicy dishes, rich stews and sauces, hearty soups, ...

representing Hungarian wines and you call it "frequently considered as being down-to-earth, almost vulgar"??? As a Hungarian (my country is the country of Tokaj wine) and also a contributor to the translation of the Hungarian Wine Guide, I take your remark as a personal offense. :-) "En garde!"
Andrew Mason Oct 23, 2015:
Sarah Whilst Erzsébet's suggestion is perfect for a scientifically- or technically-oriented article on the physics of wine, I would be very wary of using 'mouth-watering' in the area of wine appreciation. The term is frequently considered as being down-to-earth, almost vulgar. Wine buffs tend to like using more 'grandiose' terms (frequently hyperbolic), so it would depend on the context whether you use the term or not. For what it's worth - hoping to be helpful.

Proposed translations

+2
2 minutes
Selected

mouth-watering wines

The Sommelier Update: Mouth Watering Wine
arrowheadwine.blogspot.com/.../mouth-watering-wine.h...
All wines contain acid. When we taste wine, we experience acid on the sides of our tongues, and the mouth watering affect it creates. Acid is ...

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Note added at 3 mins (2015-10-23 16:41:59 GMT)
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Acidity is a dominant player in any food and wine pairing due to the pronounced and complex ways that it can heighten the perception of flavors. In wine tasting, acidity is perceived by a mouth watering response by the salivary glands. This mouth watering can also serve to stimulate the appetite. In wine there are three main acids that have their own associated flavors-malic (green apples), lactic (milky) and tartaric (bitter). In dishes that are fatty, oily, rich or salty, acidity in wine can "cut" (or standout and contrast) through the heaviness and be a refreshing change of pace on the palate. In cooking, acidity is often used in similar fashions such as a lemon wedges with a briny seafood dish such as oysters. The acidity of the lemon juices can make the oysters seem less briny. A wine that is less tart than the dish it is served with will taste thin and weak. A wine that comes across as "too tart" on its own may seem softer when paired with an acidic and tart dish. The complementing "tartness" of the food and wine cancels each other out and allows the other components (fruit of the wine, other flavors of the food) to be more noticeable.

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Note added at 3 mins (2015-10-23 16:42:21 GMT)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_and_food_matching

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Note added at 1 hr (2015-10-23 17:44:11 GMT)
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The Adventures and Confessions of an American Drama Queen ...
https://books.google.hu/books?isbn=1491859679 -
Barbara A. Lawrence -
The array of mouthwatering Hungarian specialties the chef prepared every evening ... It is said that Hungarians drink wine like water, so I shouldn't have been ... I enjoyed a bag of nuts on a bar of chocolate with my glass of Epebor, a mouthwateringly delicious fruit-flavored Hungarian wine.

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Note added at 1 hr (2015-10-23 17:47:30 GMT)
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Wines of the Month - Hinds Head, Bray
www.hindsheadbray.com/latest.../wines-of-the-month-2/
The Sauska winery was set up in 1999 by Hungarian entrepreneur ...
Furmint ripens late and has soft skin which damages easily but dehydrates quickly, which gives the taste of stone fruits. The other taste on the palate is of herbs and melon which stems from the Hungarian Harslevelu grape. Overall a complex wine but very distinctive, mouth-watering, crisp and fresh.

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Note added at 1 hr (2015-10-23 18:01:59 GMT)
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Another suggestion but I do not like this
http://www.winemag.com/how-to-taste-wine/
Notice if the wine forms “legs” or “tears” that run down the sides of the glass. Wines that have good legs are wines with more alcohol and glycerin content, which generally indicates that they are bigger, riper, more mouth-filling and dense than those that do not.

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Note added at 19 hrs (2015-10-24 11:56:04 GMT)
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http://www.theagencyre.com/2015/03/sommelier-selection-dry-v...
The true scope of this blog entry will encompass broad definitions of Acid (which is mouth-watering) versus Tannin (which is mouth-drying), and what that all means to the wine consumer.
Acidity

When found in food and drink, it’s experienced as tart and zesty. Tasting acidity is often confused with the taste of higher alcohol. It is common for wines grown in cooler vintages (or, years) to have higher levels of acidity. That’s because sugar and acid generally have an inverse relationship. With warmer vintages (and climates), we get riper grapes. Riper grapes yield higher levels sugar [and sweetness]. Higher levels of sugar are met with lower levels of acid. Wines with higher levels of acidity feel lighter in weight. If you prefer a wine that is more rich and round, you enjoy slightly less acidity.

Characteristics:

Mouth-watering, which is focused on the front and sides of your tongue.
If you rub your tongue to the roof of your mouth it feels gravelly.
Your mouth feels wet, the same sensation as when you bite into an apple or pear.
Tannin

Tannin is often confused with dryness, because tannin does just that. It dries your mouth. Tannin in wine is the presence of phenolic compounds that add a bitter quality. Phenolics are found in the skins and seeds of grapes and can also be added to a wine with the use of aging in oak. So, how does tannin taste? Imagine putting a used black tea bag on your tongue. A wet tea bag is practically pure tannin. It’s bitter, has a drying sensation, and it tastes herbaceous. While all of these descriptors sound very negative, tannin adds structure, complexity, and balance.

Characteristics:

Tastes bitter at the front of your mouth and along the side of your tongue.
Tannin makes your tongue dry out.
After you swallow you taste a lingering bitter/dry feeling.

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Note added at 1 day15 hrs (2015-10-25 08:29:52 GMT) Post-grading
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Merci beaucoup, Sarah!
Peer comment(s):

neutral Carol Gullidge : Re your latest suggestion: mouth-filling is totally different from mouthwatering - in fact, possibly rather the opposite!//Yes, I do know about "mouth-filling" and as you describe, it has nothing do with mouth-watering or salivant! Hence my question
2 heures
you misunderstood why I posted, but anyway. mouth-filling: Big, rich, concentrated wines that are filled with fruit extract and are high in alcohol and glycerin are wines that tend to texturally fill the mouth. A mouth-filling wine is also a chewy, fleshy
agree Edgar Bettridge : Jancis Robinson actually uses "salivant" as is. However for lesser wine geeks mouthwatering works. OK, mouthwatering is usually a descriptor for wines with acidity rather than minerality, but Chablis should have both, so go with it.
12 heures
Thank you very much, Edgar!
agree Philippe Barré :
1 jour 15 heures
Merci beaucoup!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Merci à tous pour votre aide!!! Puisque j'ai eu plus d'infos de la part de la cliente ce matin qui m'a précisé "gourmand... avoir l'eau à la bouche" mouthwatering me semble le plus juste. "
3 heures

taste buds wetting

alluring
Peer comment(s):

neutral Carol Gullidge : do you mean whetting or wetting?
2 heures
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+1
3 heures

savoury

Well, after all my negative comments about guessing and stabs in the dark, I'm going to venture this - simply because it fits so well with the Asker's definition:
"un vin salivant a une perception gustative un peu saline qui provoque dans la foulée un retour de salive."

Please see my Reference comment for examples of this, and also a plethora of other websites. The following ones refer specifically to Chablis - the wine that the Asker's Tasting Notes are describing :

The 7 best chablis wines - Daily Express
www.express.co.uk › Life & Style › Food
30 Aug 2015 - Fresh, bright and special: The 7 best chablis wines ... intense, bold chablis, which has pear and citrus flavours with a subtly nutty, savoury edge.

2013 CHABLIS 1er Cru Côte de Léchet Domaine Denis ...
www.leaandsandeman.co.uk/.../2013-CHABLIS-1er-Cru-Cote-de-L...
France, Burgundy. After the Beauroy this has a more mineral, less generous feel. Dusty, pithy grip and savoury salinity too. This plot in.

Chablis | The Finest Wines Available To Humanity
thefinestwinesavailabletohumanity.com/category/chablis/
Yet this 2003 Chablis was absolutely wonderful: hazelnut, honey and savoury notes combined with a much-softened lemon-apple fruitiness. Lovely texture …


The Wine Opus - Google Books Result
https://books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=1405366346
2010 - ‎Cooking
1 7 rue du Chateau, Milly, 89800 Chablis wwwbernard-defaix.co1n Domaine ... Chablis Fourneaux, a full mineral and savoury wine, is aged in 600 litre (132 gal)



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Note added at 3 hrs (2015-10-23 20:01:34 GMT)
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See my Reference Note: it is "The kind of savoury […] with just enough salt to make your mouth water" that persuaded me that the term "savoury" fits the bill here!
Example sentence:

Chablis Fourneaux, a full mineral and savoury wine, is aged in 600 litre (132 gal)

Peer comment(s):

agree James A. Walsh
16 heures
thanks James :)
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18 heures

juicy

not totally sure, but found a few refs.

Quality and some finesse run through this pinot, in company with the consistent, layered flavours and the juicy texture that the French call salivant. The fruit is restrained and well structured, the acid is well pitched, and the tannins are fine. It’s drinking well and will hold its freshness for another two or three years.


http://rodphillipsonwine.com/index.php?option=com_content&ta...

ike the stripped down style of pinot: lighter, juicy... salivant, as the French say.
http://embed.scribblelive.com/Embed/v5.aspx?Id=56932&Page=1&...


or leave it in the French in italics:

Jancis Robinson wrote: “Salivant! Pretty dry, firm and lip-smacking. Lots of confident sucky-stone character. Excellent. Long. 17/20”
http://www.enotria.co.uk/articles/?p=4915

The Echezeaux was a great deal more open than the Grands Echezeaux, with less grip but enticing acidity. A dark streak of fruit, developing freshness and lift, carried forward. Lovely progression and really salivant.

Balanced, symmetrical wine with substance to the cleansing fruit, salivant<i/> then hints of earthiness on the finish
https://www.wineowners.com/blog.aspx?bcat=fine-wine-apprecia...
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18 heures

(wines with saliva-inducing) minerality

I think "mouthwatering" is too general a term
I think what is being talked about here is...saline minerality which results in saliva-inducing wines. Or alternatively

aromatic/flavoursome mineral wines

And "minerality" is definitely having its moment in wine-tasting terms. You can also say "mineral wines" as above, but I prefer the noun.

http://www.zindhumbrecht.fr/en/minerality-in-wines-the-bio-d...
On the palate, this is another story. Minerals in their globality have a taste and will without doubt influence the palate, length and structure of a wine. Their presence will first alter the pH or expression of the acidity on the palate and change the compositions of many molecules in a wine. More importantly, they will leave a saline savour, enhancing the touch of the wine on our taste buds and transforming its length and character.
This ‘minerality’ will also make us salivate and will increase the desire to take another sip.
As a wine grower, it is this expression of minerality that I am looking for in wines. It makes a wine unique in its character and is a formidable sign of quality, because only great viticulture and careful winemaking can bring this taste in the bottle.

http://www.decanter.com/features/minerality-in-wine-what-doe...
http://www.klwines.com/p/i?i=1154347
"with saliva-inducing saline minerality "
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Reference comments

3 heures
Reference:

Savoury wine - it just could be this

When you hear the word savoury, you think of cheese, meat pies, or olives and nuts. You rarely think of wine.

Savoury is not a typical definition of wine. It certainly is not as popular as crisp, fruity, full-bodied or zesty. Yet there I was, tasting flights of Marsanne at a Mentzendorff tasting and all I could think of was savoury.

The kind of savoury like eating buttery popcorn with just enough salt to make your mouth water. Or salt toffee you buy at the beach or find at a fair on a pier. I find this flavour when tasting a fino sherry, Madeira wine or extremely mineral Burgundy. It is not a common description for wine. Yet here, tasting this single varietal ermitage, savoury was the best word I could think of to describe this wine.

A bit dismayed by my own taste buds I researched savoury wines. Wine expert Robert Parker defines savoury as “a general descriptive term that denotes that the wine is round, flavorful, and interesting to drink.”
[…]
Local wine expert and manager of the Oxford Wine Company's Botley shop, Lee Isaacs, revels in the savoury description. “I love the salty twang of minerality in a wine. That feeling of wet stones bringing to mind a babbling brook, or the rapier like sensation of steel. For something different, try the humble Aligoté. Domaine Felix’s example (£10.99) is full of minerality, its fresh acidity enhancing the slight note of salinity. Another favourite is Jourdan’s Picpoul de Pinet (£9.45). So clean you could bathe in it, the understated tropical notes giving way to an ever so slightly spicy finish but all the time it has steeliness quicker than Zorro’s foil!”

Whether it is a mineral white or meaty red, savoury is an acceptable term. Try it for yourself. Ask your local bodega for a savoury wine. Guarantee they will bring you out something interesting.
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