Carol Gullidge Feb 26, 2008:

yes, sorry, that bit did come after - and subsequently get lost among all that correspondence!

Emma Paulay Feb 26, 2008:

The glossary entry is definitely misleading. To have made an entry at all for this is a mistake IMO. It's completely context based. Even without the cow pun, "nasty" is too strong. You can't delete the entry but you can comment on it, which I've done.

Melissa McMahon (asker) Feb 26, 2008:

Re Sandra's PS - yes, I was wondering about that - point also taken.

Melissa McMahon (asker) Feb 26, 2008:

CMJ: I understand the concern, but isn't the most neutral answer the least misleading entry to have in the glossary?
Thanks Sandra - yes, and I appreciated the creative efforts too.

Sandra Petch Feb 26, 2008:

PS as it's a question of meaning rather than translation, maybe this should have been posted in the French language forum?

Sandra Petch Feb 26, 2008:

Point taken Melissa. I guess we were all so happy to have something creative to chew on :-) we focused more on the translation than explaining the meaning, which is what you asked for. Best of luck!

CMJ_Trans (X) Feb 26, 2008:

What you choose is your affair but I am concerned about the glossary entry and that will be misleading in future. You spoke of cookery whereas this was really more about farming and it's hardships ......

Melissa McMahon (asker) Feb 26, 2008:

Firstly, Sandra, no, I won't be using those words - as I mentioned in my decision I haven't decided on a suitable pun yet... there are great ideas here but none of them have struck me as "the one".
Carol, I did in fact point out the hard work aspect. See above: "the emphasis of the piece is about how much relentless work is involved". If I didn't give more context in the question it's again because the core of my question was about meaning. I didn't object to the pun suggestions, but as I said in the question, the starting point has to be to get the meaning clear.
CMJ: I'm familiar with the use of "vache" generally as a colloquialism, I just wasn't sure if it kept that sense when paired with 'histoire'. I'm afraid I'm not seeing a large difference in register between 'nasty' and 'mean' - a 'mean and nasty story'?

I can see I should have done more to focus the response on the meaning, but there were so many responses so quickly & I was happy to get ideas on that front too (and didn't see the potential for harm). But "which response was the most helpful"? Etienne's. Because I asked what the expression meant and he was quickest to tell me. I'm sorry that some of you feel misled.

Carol Gullidge Feb 26, 2008:

pity we didn't know about the "demanding work" aspect before, as perhaps I wouldn't have hidden my answer! (A load of bull!). I had the impression that this was meant to be some pastoral idyll, but that now seems not to be the case...

CMJ_Trans (X) Feb 26, 2008:

nasty story would be more like "une sale histoire". "Vache" is more "mean" - ça c'est vache - that's mean (of you) (usually said humorously). Difficult to explain in a little box. But nasty is not the right register

Sandra Petch Feb 26, 2008:

...I'm guessing (hoping!) "nasty story" isn't how you translated the title so out of curiosity how did you translate it?

Sandra Petch Feb 26, 2008:

Hi Melissa - as CMJ explained in her note, "vache" means unkind or mean. "L'amour vache" is a "love-hate relationship". My guess is that this "nasty" aspect is secondary to finding a play on words...

Melissa McMahon (asker) Feb 26, 2008:

Well, I didn't myself enter the answer in the glossary, but I'm myself a bit confused as to why you think "nasty story" is a bad answer to the question: "what does 'histoire vache' mean? I do understand nasty as synonymous with horrible/awful, and in the story it refers to the demanding work of the dairy farmers. Are you saying "nasty story" is incorrect? Or just that it's not a pun and therefore not a full translation in context? Because I tried to be clear to separate the two issues in my question.

CMJ_Trans (X) Feb 26, 2008:

I share Sandra's confusion - that the answer selected may have put you on a track is one thing but to enter the term thus in the glossaries is both WRONG (over-simplification) and CONFUSING - please delete from glossary

Sandra Petch Feb 26, 2008:

Hi! I must be missing something here. Does "nasty" mean something other than horrible or awful? Do the couple not treat their cows well? I'm totally confused!

Attorney DC Bar Feb 19, 2008:

For the best cow tale around, go to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQMbXvn2RNI
"Cows with Guns'....

B D Finch Feb 19, 2008:

From your last note: "relentless ruminations".

Melissa McMahon (asker) Feb 19, 2008:

They're dairy cows, so no carving up here (cf. Bourth - some great other ideas though): the emphasis of the piece is about how much relentless work is involved, plus how they're like members of the family etc. Some excellent suggestions here for ruminations...

CMJ_Trans (X) Feb 19, 2008:

something with "k/cow-towing" ?

CMJ_Trans (X) Feb 19, 2008:

or just "Cows' tales"

CMJ_Trans (X) Feb 19, 2008:

they don't raise pigs too, do they ? - a pig of a tale !

CMJ_Trans (X) Feb 19, 2008:

"vache" in slang means "mean" "rotten" "dirty" - une histoire vache = a mean old tale - perhaps you could do something with " and thereby hangs a tale/tail" ? (quelle vache = what a cow )