| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Restrictive covenant in house deed prohibits trade or business Thread poster: Malcolm Rowe
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Malcolm Rowe
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:50
French to English
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Hi. I hope I've chosen the right forum for this query. I'm looking at buying a house in the UK but on the title deed it says
"the transferee for itself and its successors in title HEREBY COVENANTS with the council and its successors in title as follows :
3.2 not to carry on or knowingly permit to be carried on at the property any trade or business whatsoever (save in accordance with any tenancy agreement issued to the tenants of the property) or permit any house bungalow or f... See more Hi. I hope I've chosen the right forum for this query. I'm looking at buying a house in the UK but on the title deed it says
"the transferee for itself and its successors in title HEREBY COVENANTS with the council and its successors in title as follows :
3.2 not to carry on or knowingly permit to be carried on at the property any trade or business whatsoever (save in accordance with any tenancy agreement issued to the tenants of the property) or permit any house bungalow or flat to be used for any purpose other than either private dwelling houses or for the facilitation or for the provision of social housing. "
On the face of it, this would seem to prohibit working from home as a freelance translator or do people think it only applies to businesses where you have customers entering the premises? If we consider it to prohibit freelance translation, does anyone have any experience of resolving such an impediment? Do you apply to the council for an exemption or do you simply ignore it?
To me it seems that the clause is outdated,, predating the advent of powerful home computers and broadband. But I would prefer not to end up breaking the law to carry out my work.
Any thoughts? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Adieu 
Ukrainian to English
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| Just an easy eviction clause | Jul 24, 2021 |
For hookers, drug dealers, meth cooks, grow houses, tattoo artists, guys with power tools, and other undesirables.
Your business is no more a business than a guy writing a book to them.
[Edited at 2021-07-25 00:00 GMT]
| | | | Agneta Pallinder
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:50
Member (2014)
Swedish to English
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| Don't ignore it | Jul 25, 2021 |
I could see complications arising if you buy this house and then, in your next self assessment for HMRC, include financial statements for your translation business that contain deductions for "use of home as office".
Nothing would probably happen - unless you became the subject of close scrutiny from HMRC or other authorities for some reason - money laundering?, that stash of hash you'd almost forgotten?, the body under the floorboards in your previous home? (Getting carried away h... See more I could see complications arising if you buy this house and then, in your next self assessment for HMRC, include financial statements for your translation business that contain deductions for "use of home as office".
Nothing would probably happen - unless you became the subject of close scrutiny from HMRC or other authorities for some reason - money laundering?, that stash of hash you'd almost forgotten?, the body under the floorboards in your previous home? (Getting carried away here!)
So, why not talk it through with the council or the land registry and see if you can get a clarification that reassures you. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 19:50
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Malcolm Rowe wrote:
"the transferee for itself and its successors in title HEREBY COVENANTS with the council and its successors in title as follows:
3.2 not to carry on or knowingly permit to be carried on at the property any trade or business whatsoever (save in accordance with any tenancy agreement issued to the tenants of the property)...
When we moved to our current house, I had to ask the city council if it would be okay for me to work in this house as a freelance translator. They replied (officially) saying that it's okay. In my case, however, it was a zoning issue, and the party authorized to authorize my business use of this property was with the city council, not the previous tenant/owner.
I agree with Adieu that this clause was written with business types in mind where noise pollution or excessive visits by non-acquaintances apply. But if you're going to register your business with the chamber of commerce, you're going to have to give a street address for your business, right? And that would be this house, so you really need to make sure that your type of business is excluded from the restrictions. Of course, I don't know UK law, so it may be so that the registered address of a business does not need to be the actual place of business, and your place of business is the internet.
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| consult a lawyer | Jul 25, 2021 |
Who's doing the conveyancing?
| | | | | I'd ask a solicitor | Jul 25, 2021 |
Because it's such an important aspect of a property purchase, I would put this question to the solicitor who is handling things at your end, if you've instructed one already. My initial reaction is that, like you, I feel that the clause is obsolete because it's now possible to carry on a business from home with a computer without disturbing neighbours (indeed, working from home has been encouraged a great deal over the past year and a bit!), but like Agneta and Samuel, I wouldn't ignore it and I... See more Because it's such an important aspect of a property purchase, I would put this question to the solicitor who is handling things at your end, if you've instructed one already. My initial reaction is that, like you, I feel that the clause is obsolete because it's now possible to carry on a business from home with a computer without disturbing neighbours (indeed, working from home has been encouraged a great deal over the past year and a bit!), but like Agneta and Samuel, I wouldn't ignore it and I would want the council to change or strike out that clause before any purchase goes ahead.
As for what happens if you go ahead and buy a property subject to a restrictive covenant, I recently studied this for a land law exam (law of England and Wales) I sat last month. NB I am not a solicitor and this is not legal advice, I'm just paraphrasing what my textbook says about the subject. It says that it is possible to get a restrictive covenant discharged (lifted) in certain circumstances under section 84 of the Law of Property Act 1925, or you can ask the person benefiting from the covenant to sign a deed of release or variation, but that's at their discretion. There is also the question of whether this covenant existed before the current owner bought the property, if they are not the original owner, because restrictive covenants are not always enforceable against subsequent buyers, but that's a complicated issue and one for a lawyer. And if the property is in Scotland or NI, then the rules might be very different as they have their own legal systems.
So in short, I would run anything you do, or plan to do, by your solicitor to be on the safe side.
[Edited at 2021-07-25 18:59 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:50
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Tina Vonhof (X)
Canada
Local time: 11:50
Dutch to English
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| Business vs profession | Jul 25, 2021 |
I think what the covenant tries to prevent is people coming and going to your house, cars parking, etc., and potentially causing a nuisance for the neighbours. You are simply practicing your profession and what you do on your computer is, literally, nobody's business. Would the covenant also pertain to teachers grading student papers or researchers entering data? I think not.
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:50
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Tina Vonhof wrote:
I think what the covenant tries to prevent is people coming and going to your house, cars parking, etc., and potentially causing a nuisance for the neighbours. You are simply practicing your profession and what you do on your computer is, literally, nobody's business. Would the covenant also pertain to teachers grading student papers or researchers entering data? I think not.
Yes - it's to make sure you don't put up a giant flashing sign on the roof that says T R A N S L A T O R 24/7 - or anything like that.
| | | | | Legal advice | Jul 27, 2021 |
This is an interesting question and one that concerns so many people these days. I'm in France, I work from home, a home that I rent. Working from home is something I cleared with the owner and the consent is clearly expressed in writing.
This is a business issue but it is, first and foremost is a matter of law and requires professional legal advice. You need someone with the full documentation at his/her disposal to be looking at the document armed with the full expertise of how t... See more This is an interesting question and one that concerns so many people these days. I'm in France, I work from home, a home that I rent. Working from home is something I cleared with the owner and the consent is clearly expressed in writing.
This is a business issue but it is, first and foremost is a matter of law and requires professional legal advice. You need someone with the full documentation at his/her disposal to be looking at the document armed with the full expertise of how that part of the document applies to what you want to do. There may be various legal instruments, laws, rules and regulations in place that have an effect on that particular clause. That requires up-to-date specific legal knowledge and expertise. I am not going to be rash enough to risk commenting on how it may apply generally or specifically to your particular situation. The only suggestion I am willing to make is to say that it would be equally rash on your part to consider basing a decision of this nature on info gleaned from a bunch of translators who may or may not have knowledge or expertise, however well-meaning! Each to his/her own. If a lawyer consulted to act as such stuffs up, he/she has professional indemnity insurance. If a translator messes up a critical part of a translation, then legal action may be a possibility too. If someone exercises both activities professionally, then you need to know what hat is being worn when you seek that advice.
I do get why the question is tabled here, but if you base such a major real-life decision on this type of source, if it all goes pear-shaped afterwards, you would only have yourself to blame.
Here's the thing though, as Tom clearly points out, unless you are running a commercial enterprise selling goods, or if you have clients coming in and out at all times of the days and night, there's obviously a strong chance that the landlord couldn't give a poop about what you do. However, if you don't pay your rent, for example, and cause grief to all your neighbours, then they might scratch the surface and put the finger on ready-made grounds to give you the boot.
Why not check it with your legal advisor and see if there is some way of obtaining a legally-binding consent for your specific activity?
[Edited at 2021-07-27 14:20 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
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| Is that actually necessary? | Jul 27, 2021 |
I'm fairly sure that, at least in places like USA, any attempt to sue you for breach of contract for working on documents using the internet from home with no activity that in any way shape or form affects your neighbors or neighborhood would get thrown out by a judge in 30 seconds, without any lawyer needed.
Is this different in your area?
[Edited at 2021-07-27 16:10 GMT]
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Nobody will ever know or care.
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 19:50
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Adieu wrote:
I'm fairly sure that, at least in places like USA, any attempt to sue you for breach of contract for working on documents using the internet from home with no activity that in any way shape or form affects your neighbors or neighborhood would get thrown out by a judge in 30 seconds, without any lawyer needed.
Well, in the case of the OP, the counter-party is the city council. And the city council can do a lot of things to harm you without going to court.
For example, if we were to speculate, if the city council were to determine that the OP is using the address for disallowed business purposes (and it would be very easy for them to do so -- in my case, I would have to register my business at e.g. the chamber of commerce, who automatically informs the city council), they could e.g. rezone the house as "business", which would increase his property taxes, or cancel some the other residents' social grants (since the address where they claim to live is a business address), or require the building to comply with commercial building codes (e.g. have disabled parking or a disabled toilet, or industrial filters in the air conditioning system, etc). And it would be up to the OP to sue *them* if he feels aggrieved (not the other way around).
Also, don't be so sure that a judge would rule against you if you voluntarily signed an agreement with someone else, and they feel that the agreement doesn't really apply to them because the agreement is a bit old-fashioned or "doesn't take into account the realities of modern living".
[Edited at 2021-07-28 19:51 GMT]
| | | | Paul Malone
France
Local time: 19:50
Member (2004)
French to English
+ ...
| I wouldn't count on that, especially in this day and age. | Jul 28, 2021 |
Ice Scream wrote:
Nobody will ever know or care.
I find this view quite naïve given the way things work in today's society.
When you register for formalities such as taxes, state insurance contributions, and so on, clearly the authorities will know what's going on. Personally, I would take professional advice on this, for my peace of mind if nothing else. If you are buying a property, you will probably be living and working in it for several years, and you surely won't want to be feeling nervous every time the doorbell rings.
In short, I agree with those contributors who suggest consulting lawyers/solicitors, etc. I would want to be satisfied that I wasn't doing anything illegal.
| | | | | Quiet enjoyment | Jul 29, 2021 |
The right to quiet enjoyment of the place you rent is one thing. In effect, there is little chance anyone comes and bugs you about this. But there are a couple of practical issues you might like to bear in mind:
- as I mentioned in my previous post, if you get up your landlord's nose, he could start looking for reasons to give you the boot. Breaching a restrictive covenant might be a handy thing to add to a list.
- insurance. If someone comes to collect a piece of work, trips ... See more The right to quiet enjoyment of the place you rent is one thing. In effect, there is little chance anyone comes and bugs you about this. But there are a couple of practical issues you might like to bear in mind:
- as I mentioned in my previous post, if you get up your landlord's nose, he could start looking for reasons to give you the boot. Breaching a restrictive covenant might be a handy thing to add to a list.
- insurance. If someone comes to collect a piece of work, trips over and injures himself, or breaks your great-grandmother's Ming vase, you may find yourself up poop creek without a paddle.
Insurance companies like to look under carpets. If you register your business activity at your personal address, work from your personal address and then expect professional indemnity and/or public liability insurance to cover you in the event of some expensive incident, you may find yourself totally exposed.
An easy way anyone might find out is by asking what work you do and checking here your business is registered. You could register it elsewhere and you can actually work from home.
Bear in mind, there may be certain advantages in working from home... are you able to deduct certain expenses (pro rata) such as rent, energy bills and so on? Passing up on that can make a difference. That is just one example, there are no doubt others.
But it all seems complicated for something that seems unproblematic if you simply go ahead and ask.
Again, the simple route is to seek your landlord's consent in writing.
When push comes to shove, the probability is dust-particle size but the risk acnnot be ruled out.
[Edited at 2021-07-29 13:40 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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