| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | KudoZ related to Jobs posted Thread poster: Lingua 5B
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Lingua 5B 
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 19:00
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
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TOPIC STARTER | That was not a serious proposal. | Dec 3, 2010 |
Nobody should ever be giving wrong answers, it's just what crossed my mind, as I know they are using it in the Weakest Link Quizz.
In a professional community it is out of question of course, because we have a very simple and useful option of not answering questions we don't like at all. And the number of these questions is growing each day. I can't remember when I last saw a truly challenging KudoZ question, at a high-professional level.
As for the saddest thing I've h... See more Nobody should ever be giving wrong answers, it's just what crossed my mind, as I know they are using it in the Weakest Link Quizz.
In a professional community it is out of question of course, because we have a very simple and useful option of not answering questions we don't like at all. And the number of these questions is growing each day. I can't remember when I last saw a truly challenging KudoZ question, at a high-professional level.
As for the saddest thing I've heard on this site is probably what imatahan said about seeing translation test portions from her own test posted at the time of the test period. Not sure if it can get sadder than that.
[Edited at 2010-12-03 19:31 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Vitals
Lithuania
Local time: 20:00
English to Lithuanian
+ ...
| What is then Kudoz for? | Dec 3, 2010 |
Here is some food for thought on the subject (in no way provocative, just as a thought-starter...):
1) Well, if we are not to ask questions via Kudoz, then what is Kudoz for?
2) If we are to ask questions via Kudoz, why are we asking them? Isn't it because we have an assignment (probably won a bid)? We don't usually ask translation questions as a hobby.
3) Do you ask a Kudoz question only when you DO NOT KNOW the answer, or when you know it, but need CONFI... See more Here is some food for thought on the subject (in no way provocative, just as a thought-starter...):
1) Well, if we are not to ask questions via Kudoz, then what is Kudoz for?
2) If we are to ask questions via Kudoz, why are we asking them? Isn't it because we have an assignment (probably won a bid)? We don't usually ask translation questions as a hobby.
3) Do you ask a Kudoz question only when you DO NOT KNOW the answer, or when you know it, but need CONFIRMATION from experienced Proz.com colleagues (isn't Proz.com about utilizing the togetherness and experience of world translators?)?
4) Now I even thought of test translations or confidential texts. Confidentiality - yes (when asked for it), but can't you reform the phrase or context in a way that you do not break the confidentiality, yet find out about it from Proz-colleagues? (Even the copyright texts are not "copyright" when 70% reformed acording to the legislation of some countries/companies/bodies).
Your comments would be appreciated. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 19:00
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | That's the thing | Dec 3, 2010 |
Vitals wrote:
4) Now I even thought of test translations or confidential texts. Confidentiality - yes (when asked for it), but can't you reform the phrase or context in a way that you do not break the confidentiality, yet find out about it from Proz-colleagues? (Even the copyright texts are not "copyright" when 70% reformed acording to the legislation of some countries/companies/bodies).
Your comments would be appreciated.
You can't because your colleagues will find ( or they found, as confirmed on this thread) identical portions in their own test. One identical portion/phrase may be a coincidence, but 5 or 10 can't. Especially when the time period of the test matches that of your own test, and suddenly all pieces of the puzzle are set in their own place.
It's not that much about asking or not asking questions. It is about how they ask questions/ professionally or not.
Wouldn't an evaluation test imply confidentiality by itself? Can you take a test copy out of a professional institution and publish it on the Internet for public view? Portions of text are within confidentiality and copyright regulations scope, perhaps you could do a little research on this.
[Edited at 2010-12-03 19:32 GMT]
| | | | Vitals
Lithuania
Local time: 20:00
English to Lithuanian
+ ...
Lingua 5B wrote:
Wouldn't an evaluation test imply confidentiality by itself?
Let's take your sentence above and presume it is copyrighted and confidential and say that here's this young translator on Kudoz who does not yet know the word "imply" (maybe not the best example, but still) and he des the following:
Asks a Kudoz question: TO IMPLY
Provides context: Dear translators, here is my context: "This testing method implies a confidential approach". Thank you.
Gets an answer: To imply means...etc.
Would you pick on that? Would you even recognize your confidential sentence?
To me confidentiality would not be that "holy and untouchable". And, of course, I do realize there are things I CAN NOT ask on Proz as they are strictly, clearly and obviously confidential.
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Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 19:00
French to German
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Robert Forstag wrote:
Excellent translators typically have minimum rates that the typical posters on the proz.com Jobs Board consider too high. Low bidders typically have marginal skills or may even be downright unqualified for the jobs that they obtain. Hence the high degree of dependence on Kudoz help.
Doesn't it make perfect sense?
only that it means the greatest part of the system is biased then (added for the sake of fairness: quite in the same way as on other sites).
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 19:00
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Amplification. | Dec 3, 2010 |
Vitals wrote:
Would you even recognize your confidential sentence?
.
You are using amplification to prove a point.
We are talking about serial questions / phrases ( def. phrase = a set of words, not a single word), from the same document. And believe me, it's very recognizable.
Let's take a fictional example. Note: the below job posting is completely fictional and any similarity with real jobs is accidental.
For instance, I see a job post saying:
we are looking for translators for wood industry dealing with kitchen furniture. It's an urgent job and we need to get your replies within 24 hours and the job done within 3 days.
The following couple of days, I happen to visit KudoZ, and I see one particular asker asking serial questions, in my pair, such as:
kitchen table fitters
cupboard shelves
.. and other kitchen equipment related phrases
Coincidence or something else?
These things always happen soon after the bidding is closed, so things are very transparent. I can't help it.
| | | | veratek
Brazil
Local time: 14:00
French to English
+ ...
| Too many misinterpretations | Dec 3, 2010 |
Lingua 5B wrote: veratek wrote:
I suppose if you are annoyed that someone else knows less than you, and possibly still got a job because they've offered to do it for a lower rate, although it may have been for other reasons as well, you could always refrain from helping them in ProZ.
I'm not annoyed, but you do seem a bit. I just wanted to check if someone else perceived the same thing. I like to hear various opinions and view angles. About your assumption that they can still do a job well in the end, in my opinion they can't, if they need to ask very simple questions; and additionally, the way in which they ask questions tells a lot about their competence, or rather incompetence.
Actually you seemed quite annoyed by people posting many questions on ProZ. I have no issue with you asking for other people's opinions, I was just stating mine. It's what you asked for, remember?
About your distortion that I assume "anybody can do a good job," if you'd care to reread what I wrote, you will see that I said something very different:
"What is relevant is that a translator can do the job well in the end, for the price and deadline that is compatible with the client's needs. "
[Edited at 2010-12-04 10:33 GMT]
| | | | | Much too often! | Dec 4, 2010 |
W Schoeniger wrote: Hi Lingua 5B, sorry for my poor English, but this is just to let you know that I happen  ) sometimes to see exactly the kind of "phenomenon" you described. People get jobs but are definitely not that much qualified for them... or even worse: sometimes I feel that they CAN offer low rates because they ask part of the job to be done by helpful communities, for nothing. My personal attitude is: - look at the level of the asker's questions. If necessary enter "non-pro" in order to give these colleagues some feedback, amically but firmly. - refrain from helping people that are eating up ones own market-share (in my personal case this has hardly ever happened - I do not work for Proz jobs but just have a glance at them as a kind of market review). - look at the number of questions some people asked. There are global champions who asked more than 2000 questions and answered less than 20. I do see no point in "helping" these peope. It will even make them ever less autonomous, no? Well then, I am still on Kudoz very often because we have got a really positive exchange level with many many competent translators who are not concerned by my critical advice juste above. And I love **sharing** knowledge as much as I hate spilling it for nothing!
I have seen this happen time and time again, and it's a real pity to confirm that people get certified by the site and then use their membership to profit from other (paying and non-paying) professional translators' knowledge and experience. Their questions usually consist of sentences, not terms, so in the end they get the job done without no effort but that of copying and pasting the original on a Kudoz form.
This should not be a surprise to anyone, as we know the low rates offered by agencies that post translation jobs here. This is what I call disloyal competition.
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jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 13:00
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| I found people sometimes ask Kudoz questions | Dec 4, 2010 |
related to words or phrases from the documents with which they are doing a translation test for their potential clients.
Some people are desperate to get a job; some people are not that ethical; still some just too damb.
| | | | LEXpert
United States
Local time: 12:00
Member (2008)
Croatian to English
+ ...
| Sure - one particular case still troubles me | Dec 4, 2010 |
I think it was a couple years back. Medical device manual translation posted, over the next few days a flood of kudoz for related terms, translator clearly way out of their depth.
I shudder at the thought of physicians relying on that mangled translation to use the equipment for making life-or-death diagnostic decisions.
[Edited at 2010-12-04 20:21 GMT]
| | | | JapanLegal
Japan
Local time: 02:00
Member (2009)
Japanese to English
+ ...
| KudoZ was not built to assist incompetent translators in client/agency deception | Jan 14, 2011 |
Vitals wrote:
1) Well, if we are not to ask questions via Kudoz, then what is Kudoz for?
2) If we are to ask questions via Kudoz, why are we asking them? Isn't it because we have an assignment (probably won a bid)? We don't usually ask translation questions as a hobby.
I think that KudoZ is a great resource for translators who run into tricky words or want to gather opinions on terms/phrases that they understand but can't translate with concision or clarity.
However, in my time I have definitely witnessed a number of instances of the proverbial "KudoZ dump," where very simple KudoZ questions that are obviously related to recently closed jobs start popping up and much more expensive and knowledgeable translators start swooping in to complete the jobs that they couldn't win in the race-to-the-bottom reverse auction setting.
If I'm not mistaken, one such dump has just begun...
| | | | Mami Yamaguchi
Japan
Local time: 02:00
Member (2008)
English to Japanese
+ ...
| What is KudoZ? | Mar 16, 2011 |
I really feel a sort of contrariety. The community is to help askers basically.
But it is like a competition. Sometimes I feel invisible relationship. Although I think it is unfair and I know many translators feel like this, nevertheless I would like to provide askers with my knowledge as a professional translator. Sometimes I come across naysayers, I have room to receive justifiable comments and would like to pass a comment if needed. I said to my old friend 'KudoZ is for helping as... See more I really feel a sort of contrariety. The community is to help askers basically.
But it is like a competition. Sometimes I feel invisible relationship. Although I think it is unfair and I know many translators feel like this, nevertheless I would like to provide askers with my knowledge as a professional translator. Sometimes I come across naysayers, I have room to receive justifiable comments and would like to pass a comment if needed. I said to my old friend 'KudoZ is for helping askers basically many times before. I sincerely hope that my voice reach....
[Edited at 2011-03-17 02:25 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Kirsten Bodart
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:00
Dutch to English
+ ...
| Qualified or not qualified | Mar 30, 2011 |
What gets me sometimes is not the fact someone may be qualified or not. I mean, one never gets lots of experience in a field by not gaining experience; as far as I know one cannot be qualified in everything from the start. One needs to be allowed a chance. One cannot become a specialist in one field if one does not attempt to make translations, despite having no knowledge whatsoever. However, one does not necessarily need Kudoz to get a translation right. What is wrong with the internet? Everyth... See more What gets me sometimes is not the fact someone may be qualified or not. I mean, one never gets lots of experience in a field by not gaining experience; as far as I know one cannot be qualified in everything from the start. One needs to be allowed a chance. One cannot become a specialist in one field if one does not attempt to make translations, despite having no knowledge whatsoever. However, one does not necessarily need Kudoz to get a translation right. What is wrong with the internet? Everything can be found, if only it is looked for. In former days, I imagine, translators used to rely on their own library and knowledge, nowadays they can rely on that vast virtual library out there that is much much bigger than anything they could ever own. Still, it seems to be unfindable for some.
I see lots of questions that just require Google for an answer. I just wonder why that is. Is it laziness? lack of tlme? Lack of knowledge is not an excuse if you can just take even the dictionary for help.
That said, there are of course things that need inspiration (like management manuals with nonsensical language, even in the source language), and inspiration from more than one head is always a plus. ▲ Collapse
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