baronnie moyenâgeuse

anglais translation: separate fiefdoms

10:30 Jun 21, 2009

traduction français vers anglais [PRO]
Social Sciences - Histoire

Terme ou expression en français : baronnie moyenâgeuse

Hi

The term is being used figuratively to describe a cultural project whose different components are progressing well but each independently of the other. The author of the text says there is a risk that they will form "un système de baronnie moyenâgeuse." He then goes on to explain the risks associated with this (absence of a coherent whole, loss of synergy, lack of clarity).

I don't think a literal translation works at all here although I'm willing to be "convaincue du contraire"! Otherwise, can anyone think of another metaphor?

Many thanks!

Sandra Petch Activité KudoZ Questions : 576 (none open) (86 closed without grading) Réponses : 558
Local time: 05:44

Traduction en anglais :separate fiefdoms

Explication :
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Fiefdoms
1. The estate or domain of a feudal lord.
2. Something over which one dominant person or group exercises control

Could be the right register

Réponse sélectionnée de :

polyglot45

Grading comment

"Fiefdoms" is perfect. It keeps the medieval reference and exactly corresponds to this idea of self-contained entities. Thanks a million Polyglot, I don't think I would ever have thought of this myself!
4 points KudoZ ont été attribués à cette réponse

Résumé des réponses proposées

3 +10

separate fiefdoms

polyglot45

4 +1

infighting

Bourth (X)

a Middle Ages' style system of baronies

Barbara Cochran, MFA

lead to authority (leadership) being divided (split up) in an archaic fashion

Peter LEGUIE

Balkanisation

Irene McClure

Summary of reference entries provided

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baronnies_(Provence)

polyglot45

theories of power

Helen Shiner

Réponses

45 minutes confiance :

Balkanisation

Explication :
A term which is obviously more often used in political contexts but can be used to describe other forms of disintegration or division - some of the entries below use it in relation to project management. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkanization

http://www.europelostandfound.net/balkanisation

http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/custom/portlets/recordD...

It does however imply not only an element of non-cohesion but also of competition and conflict between the seperate units, so not sure if this will fit in your context?

Irene McClure
Local time: 05:44
Langue maternelle : anglais

47 minutes confiance :

approbation des pairs (net) : +10

separate fiefdoms

polyglot45
Langue maternelle : anglais, français
Points PRO dans la catégorie : 12

Grading comment

Commentaires des pairs sur cette réponse (et réponses des répondeurs)

Accord

emiledgar: This is the term most often used for this situation; it's perfect and no one need look any further (in my opinion).

7 minutes

-> Thanks - you've made my day

Accord

Helen Shiner: See my ref. notes. Perhaps disparate fiefdoms, rather than just separate. ie something to suggest it is a problem would be good.

36 minutes

-> you could even say "isolated fiefdoms" or "autonomous fiefdoms" but I'm not too happy with "disparate" - it suggests difference or incongruousness.... thanks anyway

Accord

Marta Scott: spot on

46 minutes

Accord

Rachel Fell

1 heure

Accord

Irene McClure: nice one!

2 heures

Accord

Julie Barber

3 heures

Accord

Omar Lima Quintana

3 heures

Accord

Colin Morley (X): fiefdoms has my vote for sure - but separate doesn't necessarily give a sense of the mediaeval. Maybe Mediaeval fiefdoms?

4 heures

-> well I figured that fiefdom sounded mediaeval enough and added the separate for the part about "ne'er the twain shall meet" but separate is an optional extra

Accord

rkillings

6 heures

Accord

Fabio Barbieri: It is especially appropriate in academic or research conditions; to speak of a professor's "fiefdom" is normal. Colin Morley, the word "fiefdom" itself conveys medievalism.

8 heures

-> thanks for the confirmation

17 minutes confiance :

lead to authority (leadership) being divided (split up) in an archaic fashion

Explication :
I indeed agree that a literal translation may not be the best answer here.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 mins (2009-06-21 10:51:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Your explanations point out the risks of "pouvoir éclaté" with each one holding tight.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 mins (2009-06-21 10:54:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

You might even add "taking us back to the Middle Ages" if you wish to remain somewhat close to the original text.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2009-06-21 11:52:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Yes, you might therefore use "responsibilities or decision-taking". My point was to stress the risk of too much independence in decision-taking for one particular project.

Peter LEGUIE
Local time: 05:44
Travaille dans le domaine
Langue maternelle : français, anglais

Notes au répondeur

Demandeur : Hi Peter - Thanks for your suggestion . I don't think it's about who has authority over what. The author is concerned that the different aspects of the project are developing along their own lines and that when they all come together at the end, there will be nothing that draws them together. It'll be a hotch-potch of elements rather than a single, coherent whole. I hope this makes sense!

2 heures confiance :

approbation des pairs (net) : +1

infighting

Explication :
Angli/reculturicize it? I'm not sure I know how to say "infighting" in French, but something about medieval baronies would come close. And isn't that one of the things baronies were best at, fighting amongst themselves?

Loss of a common cause,and infighting.

Bourth (X)
Local time: 05:44
Langue maternelle : anglais
Points PRO dans la catégorie : 154

12 heures confiance :

a Middle Ages' style system of baronies

Explication :
I'll go for the literal alternative.

Barbara Cochran, MFA
États-Unis
Local time: 23:44
Spécialisé dans le domaine
Langue maternelle : anglais

Reference comments

44 minutes

Reference: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baronnies_(Provence)

Reference information:
Les Baronnies tirent leur nom des Barons de Mévouillon et de Montauban qui, du XI au XIIIe siècle avaient acquis une grande indépendance sous la suzeraineté lointaine des Empereurs d’Allemagne. Ces deux seigneuries furent définitivement annexées au Dauphiné en 1315 et 1317, avant d'être cédées, comme partie de cette principauté, au royaume de France en 1349.

polyglot45
Langue maternelle : anglais, français
Points PRO dans la catégorie : 12

1 heure

Reference: theories of power

Reference information:
4 types of economic power: elitism, pluralism, functional fiefdoms and neighbourhood control. I was about to propose something along the lines of pluralism, but read this - p. 286-87 and now think that polyglot45's idea is just great.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=cxxJkKYAzioC&pg=PA286&lpg...

Helen Shiner
Royaume-Uni
Spécialisé dans le domaine
Langue maternelle : anglais
Points PRO dans la catégorie : 32

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baronnie moyenâgeuse

anglais translation: separate fiefdoms

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