May 28, 2013 18:12
10 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term
décor praticable
French to English
Art/Literary
Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting
Theatre
Un décor praticable c’est un décor qui est suffisamment robuste pour accueillir des figurants, des chanteurs ou des comparses
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +2 | practical | Tony M |
4 | functional set | David Vaughn |
3 | feasible/practical setting/ stage set | Verginia Ophof |
References
"praticable" as a noun, in theatres | Daryo |
Proposed translations
+2
11 mins
Selected
practical
That's the way we refer to soemthing (GB) that really works; often, it is used as a noun 'a practical'; or it is used as an adjective to qualify some other noun describing the specific item: 'a practical staircase'.
It's harder when you want a general term like 'décor', since we can't say 'a practical scenery' — and a 'practical set' would be a bit silly, really.
So you might be stuck with saying something like 'a practical scenic element' etc. — it really all depends on the specific context in which it is used.
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Note added at 22 mins (2013-05-28 18:35:07 GMT)
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The problem is, an entire stage set is by its very nature 'practical' — actors must be able to enter it and walk around; so at that level, it is taken for granted and wouldn't really be described as 'practical'; hence if used in this way, it would tend to be read with the other meaning of 'practical' — i.e. that it is functional, sensible, handy, ... For example, we might say that of a set that comes apart easily for striking, with easily-handled, not-too-heavy sections...
One can have a 'practical ladder' (one you can actually climb up), a 'practical door' (one that actually opens), a 'practical telephone' (it rings) 'a practical lamp' (it lights); one might have a 'practical bridge' — high up between two parts of the set, which actors can walk across (like for a battlement scene)
But for an entire set, I think you'll need to re-phrase it a bit to make it sound like natural technical jargon in EN.
For example "A set composed entirely of practicals" (or: 'practical elements')
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Note added at 57 mins (2013-05-28 19:10:50 GMT)
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I remember one memorable occasion when former Coronation Street star Pat Phoenix was in a touring play that came to our theatre, and she had to descend from the (pretend) first floor landing of the set down the supposedly practical staircase; only it was fixed very well, and she came a mighty cropper! Like the true old trooper she was, she played out the rest of the show with what turned out to be a badly sprained ankle!
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Note added at 1 hr (2013-05-28 19:24:16 GMT)
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See this rather helpful stage glossary:
http://www.theatrecrafts.com/results.php
PRACTICAL
Any object which appears to do onstage the same job it would do in life, or any working apparatus (eg light switch or tap). Light fittings which have to light up on the set are called Practicals.
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Note added at 3 hrs (2013-05-28 21:28:38 GMT)
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For the sake of completeness, let me repeat here what I said above in answer to Daryo's discussion comment: a 'praticable' as a specific type of scenic element is generically referred to in EN (GB) as a 'riser' — some kind of dais or platform.
However, I repeat my reservations that this is the intended meaning here.
It's harder when you want a general term like 'décor', since we can't say 'a practical scenery' — and a 'practical set' would be a bit silly, really.
So you might be stuck with saying something like 'a practical scenic element' etc. — it really all depends on the specific context in which it is used.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 mins (2013-05-28 18:35:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
The problem is, an entire stage set is by its very nature 'practical' — actors must be able to enter it and walk around; so at that level, it is taken for granted and wouldn't really be described as 'practical'; hence if used in this way, it would tend to be read with the other meaning of 'practical' — i.e. that it is functional, sensible, handy, ... For example, we might say that of a set that comes apart easily for striking, with easily-handled, not-too-heavy sections...
One can have a 'practical ladder' (one you can actually climb up), a 'practical door' (one that actually opens), a 'practical telephone' (it rings) 'a practical lamp' (it lights); one might have a 'practical bridge' — high up between two parts of the set, which actors can walk across (like for a battlement scene)
But for an entire set, I think you'll need to re-phrase it a bit to make it sound like natural technical jargon in EN.
For example "A set composed entirely of practicals" (or: 'practical elements')
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 57 mins (2013-05-28 19:10:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I remember one memorable occasion when former Coronation Street star Pat Phoenix was in a touring play that came to our theatre, and she had to descend from the (pretend) first floor landing of the set down the supposedly practical staircase; only it was fixed very well, and she came a mighty cropper! Like the true old trooper she was, she played out the rest of the show with what turned out to be a badly sprained ankle!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2013-05-28 19:24:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
See this rather helpful stage glossary:
http://www.theatrecrafts.com/results.php
PRACTICAL
Any object which appears to do onstage the same job it would do in life, or any working apparatus (eg light switch or tap). Light fittings which have to light up on the set are called Practicals.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2013-05-28 21:28:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
For the sake of completeness, let me repeat here what I said above in answer to Daryo's discussion comment: a 'praticable' as a specific type of scenic element is generically referred to in EN (GB) as a 'riser' — some kind of dais or platform.
However, I repeat my reservations that this is the intended meaning here.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Verginia Ophof
23 mins
|
Thanks, Verginia!
|
|
agree |
philgoddard
1 hr
|
Thanks, Phil!
|
|
neutral |
Helen Shiner
: You are evidently very well qualified to provide expert advice here. The point you make, however, about the entire stage set needing to be practical in a very real sense begs the question as to what very specific point is being made here in the text.
3 hrs
|
I think there, Helen, we really get into another question: what is the meaning of 'décor' in this source text? My firm belief is that it needs to be interpreted as 'a scenic element', rather than its commoner meaning of 'an entire stage set'.
|
|
neutral |
kashew
: I think there's something better. The source is a definition - so what's the whole translation? "robuste" and "pour accueillir" smacks of structural integrity to my ears. There's an architectural term for "can be stood on" that might fit?
19 hrs
|
Thanks, J, but this really is the technical term in the theatre.
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
13 mins
feasible/practical setting/ stage set
.......
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Tony M
: I couldn't really agree with 'feasible', and although 'practical' is of course identical to my own suggestion, as I have explained there is a problem applying it to an entire set in this way.
3 mins
|
4 hrs
functional set
Reference comments
2 hrs
Reference:
"praticable" as a noun, in theatres
praticable [pʀatikabl] → synonymes
1 adjectif
a [projet, moyen, opération] ▶ practicable, ▶ feasible
[chemin] ▶ passable, ▶ negotiable, ▶ practicable
■ route difficilement praticable en hiver : road which is almost impassable in winter
b /Théâtre/; [porte, décor] ▶ working
2 nom masculin
/Théâtre/ « décor » ▶ piece of working scenery
/Cinéma/ « plate-forme » ▶ gantry
/Sport/ ▶ floor mat
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Note added at 2 hrs (2013-05-28 21:00:32 GMT)
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Praticable (théâtre)
Le praticable est un objet utilisé dans le spectacle, le plus souvent en bois sur une structure, en aluminium.
Ces plateaux de formes rectangulaires montés sur pieds réglables, sont utilisés de toutes sortes de façons pour créer un lieu, une scène, différents niveaux (musiciens), ou tout simplement pour s'asseoir, ils sont le plus souvent peints en noir et les gros praticables sont montés sur roulettes.
[http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praticable_(théâtre)]
1 adjectif
a [projet, moyen, opération] ▶ practicable, ▶ feasible
[chemin] ▶ passable, ▶ negotiable, ▶ practicable
■ route difficilement praticable en hiver : road which is almost impassable in winter
b /Théâtre/; [porte, décor] ▶ working
2 nom masculin
/Théâtre/ « décor » ▶ piece of working scenery
/Cinéma/ « plate-forme » ▶ gantry
/Sport/ ▶ floor mat
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Note added at 2 hrs (2013-05-28 21:00:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Praticable (théâtre)
Le praticable est un objet utilisé dans le spectacle, le plus souvent en bois sur une structure, en aluminium.
Ces plateaux de formes rectangulaires montés sur pieds réglables, sont utilisés de toutes sortes de façons pour créer un lieu, une scène, différents niveaux (musiciens), ou tout simplement pour s'asseoir, ils sont le plus souvent peints en noir et les gros praticables sont montés sur roulettes.
[http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praticable_(théâtre)]
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree |
Tony M
: Absolutely! The translations are a bit suspect, but the definitions are perfect.
4 mins
|
Thanks!
|
|
agree |
philgoddard
: Maybe "working" is the answer.
5 hrs
|
Discussion
I was not saying anyone was a layman, I was merely seeking to point out that there are some terms (like this one) that have a special meaning as part of technical jargon, quite distinct from their everyday meaning as used in a lay context. Just because someone is unfamiliar with the specialist meaning doesn't invalidate the fact that this is the meaning in a specific technical context.
The explanation Paul gives is a perfect (though restricted) definition of what 'practical' means when used as a technical term.
Back to the actual topic, my major point (as a layman, if you really wish) is that the very general definition Paul has provided does not really seem to match the underlying concept of 'practicability' in 'practical ladder/door/telephone' etc. as per your suggestion, especially while considering everything you said about 'practicals'. In other words, Paul's definition doesn't seem to 'hold water' yet, as compared to your (valuable) suggestion. OK?
However, I'm far from convinced that is the meaning required here; if it were, I fail to see why the writer would have preceded it by 'décor'.
Have seen and heard first hand "praticable" being used in this way, and it seems to fit the context of this ST. OTOH, is it just called "stage platform" or something else in EN, I'm not sure.
"décor praticable" would be simply a stage built of several "praticable".
In the specific context of stage scenery, it is not "self-understood" — the most apparently solid-looking bits of scenery are often flimsy and totally unreal — like papier-mâché rocks; so in the specific technical world of the theatre, it is vitally important to have the proper technical terms to describe and discuss 'real' as distinct from 'fake' things — specifically, of course, if they are things that might be walked / sat / climbed upon, when safety comes into the picture.
I repeat, for me, as a theatre technician, the context given is more than adequate to arrive at the correct term, other than in respect of finding the best form of wording to use overall; but whatever form of wording is eventually used, 'practical' needs to be in there somewhere, and not some layman's fudge.
That being said, and taking the "problem" in Tony's Note added at 22 mins into account (which IMO seems to arise from the English use of "practical" rather than the French use of "practicable" as in your definition), I am wondering whether "usable/supportive (stage set)" mightn't do to help overcome these restraints.
And it fits perfectly into the context; the explanation is totally comprehensible: "a scenic element / piece of scenery (etc.) is referred to as 'practical' if it is sufficiently sturdy/solid/strong for it to be able to hold (the weight of) perfomers..." — of course, this is only one fairly narrow definition in one specific instance.
To myself, the context, source text extract and explanation given by Asker are all perfectly adequate and understandable, given my prior professional experience in this field.
Given the underlying term needed here, my only remaining query would be how the wider context might or might not influence the best way to render the whole idea in EN.
Also, if Tony's answer is right, it's NOT a definition.
It means that huge iron girder isn't made out of hollow cardboard or expanded polystyrene and you really CAN walk across it...