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establecimiento
régimen estatutario
May 23, 2018 10:29
6 yrs ago
15 viewers *
Spanish term

ostentar la titularidad

Spanish to English Law/Patents Law (general) GDPR
El Responsable del Tratamiento es la persona física o jurídica, autoridad u organismo que ostenta la titularidad sobre los datos personales puestos a disposición.

I would appreciate your help with ostentar la titularidad in this context please. Does the Controller own/ hold/possess the personal data?
Proposed translations (English)
4 +3 be responsible for
4 -1 displays the ownership...
4 -1 claim the title/ownership
References
Data owner vs. Data controller

Discussion

Robert Carter May 24, 2018:
@Charles That's my feeling, too. In other words, they're using an earlier frame of reference that's inconsistent with the new legislation.
Charles Davis May 24, 2018:
@Robert I wonder whether the writer is thinking of the titularidad of the data files or data sets (a point you raised in you comment on Phil's answer) as opposed to the data themselves. This distinction is of course fundamental.

The 1999 Spanish law (the famous Ley Orgánica 15/1999, de 13 de diciembre, de Protección de Datos de Carácter Personal) uses the word "titularidad" precisely in this way. Chapter I of Title IV (Articles 20-24) is entitled "Ficheros de titularidad pública" and Chapter II (Articles 25-32) is "Ficheros de titularidad privada". In the definitions (Article 5) it clearly says "Afectado o interesado: Persona física titular de los datos que sean objeto del tratamiento", but the word "titularidad", which occurs many times in the text of this law, always refers to the ownership of the data files.

In other words, perhaps the writer means that they own the files containing the data (which is true) and has expressed this very loosely. Might that be the explanation?
Robert Carter May 24, 2018:
@Charles My point is that the question of "ownership" is debatable, i.e., neither the subject nor the controller can be said to own it, and that the GDPR tries precisely to avoid that issue by giving data subjects more say in what can be done with data about them.

The GDPR, while using phrases such as "own data", makes no specific reference to ownership, but rather, as you say, to "control" ("Natural persons should have control of their own personal data"). This is why I'd hesitate to use "control" here also; it might suggest that the "subject" has less control than the "controller".

Maybe the drafter meant to say "posesión", yet instead they opted for "titularidad", which is simply wrong, legally speaking, but it is what it is. I can't see any other option but ownership.

In data management, "data owner" is a term organizations use to describe what we would refer to in the specific case of personal data as the "data controller", presumably because they have traditionally viewed customer databases and mailing lists as just another area of their proprietary data. Perhaps this led to the drafter's confusion here.

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/data-owner.html
Robert Carter May 24, 2018:
@Laura It's actually Charles' suggestion; my suggestion is to use "ownership" but make a footnote regarding the dubious question of ownership in this area.
Lorna O'Donoghue (asker) May 24, 2018:
Response from client to my query: el responsable del tratamiento es el responsable de los datos. el interesado es el titular. pero se los cede al responsable para los trate para las finalidades pactadas.
I'm still considering using Robert's "controls" suggestion though ...
Lorna O'Donoghue (asker) May 24, 2018:
Thanks for all your input I've emailed the client, making these points and I'm waiting to hear back.
Charles Davis May 23, 2018:
Very odd This statement does seem to be nonsense, since the "titularidad" of personal data pertains to the data subject (certainly in Spain and I think just about everywhere), though not in the case of patient data in medical records, which belong to the hospital.

I take Robert's point here: "titularidad" definitely means ownership, and one view would be that even if it's apparently untrue we must translate it accurately, drawing attention to the anomaly in a footnote.

Another approach would be to use something that is true and is not too far from "titularidad" in meaning. I don't think "is responsible for" fits the bill, but "controls" might be a way out.
Robert Carter May 23, 2018:
There's a lot of translation being done in this field right now, so I think it's important we have a good understanding of the terms being used and why we should and shouldn't use one term or another. I don't think it's helpful to blur the lines even more by confusing ownership with responsibility or accountability, which are by any measure distinct concepts in law.
Robert Carter May 23, 2018:
@Phil I totally agree with you about not using the word "own" in this context, but the source text does use it, and I don't think it's right for us to correct it, although perhaps a footnote would be in order here. I've made a reference entry with my thoughts on the matter.
franglish May 23, 2018:
"who has charge of"?

Proposed translations

+3
2 hrs
Selected

be responsible for

I'd normally say "owns", but that doesn't work here because the subject owns the data. But "to own" also now means to take responsibility for, which is a better translation here.
Peer comment(s):
agree Manuel Cedeño Berrueta : Es lo que tiene sentido aquí; la frase en español me suena extraña
8 mins
So it's not just me! Thanks.
agree franglish : I'd thought of that one, too.
42 mins
neutral Robert Carter : Data subjects own the data pertaining to them as individuals, whereas the controller owns the data set. These concepts need to be defined correctly. The ST is misleading by using "titularidad", but I wouldn't do what you're suggesting.
1 hr
I don't think we should use the word "own". It's ambiguous, and your distinction between "data" and "data set" is confusing. The controller is the individual or entity with ultimate legal responsibility for the data.
neutral Andy Watkinson : I tend to agree with Robert. And as to liability, the processor, any subprocessors are also liable. And even the data subject is liable for the accuracy of the data furnished. Pity they used "ownership"
2 hrs
agree Aurie Escobar Ramsey
3 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
-1
49 mins

displays the ownership...

My take
Peer comment(s):
disagree Aurie Escobar Ramsey : this was my first impulse as well, but not in the context of data treatment, unfortunately.
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
-1
2 hrs

claim the title/ownership

Es lo que sugiero
Peer comment(s):
disagree Aurie Escobar Ramsey : this was my first impulse as well, but not in the context of data treatment, unfortunately.
3 hrs
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

5 hrs
Reference:

Data owner vs. Data controller

From what I've read, data controller is the standard term in the EU, while data owner may be preferred in other jurisdictions, or simply a legacy term. The question of data ownership is a difficult one and the EU's General Data Protection Regulation seems to take great care specifically not to use the word "ownership" anywhere, either in English or Spanish, hence the terms "data subject", "data controller" and "data processor". Each party has rights and obligations regarding the data in their care, but the terms seem to be designed precisely to skirt the issue of "ownership" as we understand the term in relation to other property.

See for yourself here:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:32...

The source text here uses "titularidad" in a way that will be confusing to most people because it is specifically saying that the data controller "holds the ownership" (read "owns") to the personal data made available to it, which is simply not true, at least in the EU under the GDPR.

Incidentally, here's a great article about why the concept of owning data is fundamentally unhelpful:

The data ownership delusion
Please, please, please: stop saying that the data is mine, or yours, or the dog’s
...
In case you wondered, the European Union’s General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) you may have heard about in the news is all about rights. GDPR has no, zero, nada references to data ownership. Even the methusalems at the UK House of Lords have recently understood that...
...
Indirectly, the GDPR was a great push in this direction. The text of the law needed a definitions section (article 4) to be comprehensible, and it has become a de facto standard, specifying terms such as “data controller” or “data processor”. Even when the choice of words is not ideal, it is of paramount importance that we aim at developing a higher degree of shared meaning. It’s fine to say “my data”, but only as long as we all mean the same thing, and today we don’t.
https://medium.com/mydata/the-data-ownership-delusion-4012cc...

Having said all that, since this is a legal text, I'd be inclined to translate "titularidad" here as "ownership" because that is what the source text is saying, albeit mistakenly.
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Andy Watkinson
36 mins
Thanks, Andy.
Something went wrong...
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