Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

Concentrer à mou

English translation:

concentrate to a soft extract

Added to glossary by Mark Lewis
Mar 11, 2022 09:25
2 yrs ago
19 viewers *
French term

Concentrer à mou

French to English Tech/Engineering Chemistry; Chem Sci/Eng
Any idea what concentrer à mou means here, in a chemical production process? I don't know whether it means concentrate down until solid, as part of distillation, or something to do with softness (like soft water). Any clues? Thanks.

Charger la phase aqueuse épuisée de la cuve la désolvantiser et la concentrer à mou en respectant les paramètres et les indications de l’étape XX.

Discussion

abe(L)solano Mar 15, 2022:
Ok now I see the extra info from the client.
Of course this has more concepst but it was really difficult to figure it out, as you see they have given way more insight into the process. Cheers!
Mark Lewis (asker) Mar 14, 2022:
After customer feedback Mou turns out to be soft extract!
Mark Lewis (asker) Mar 14, 2022:
Acide mou Voici une réponse de Marie-Claude Josse

Je ne suis pas sûre du tout que « mou » ait un rapport quelconque avec la consistance. Pour passer à la phase organique, la phase aqueuse substantiellement épuisée qui se trouve dans la cuve (container) va être chargée d’acide. Or, on distingue en chimie les acides « mous » (soft) des acides forts (strong).

Je pense qu’il manque « l’acide » dans la phrase. Si vous le rajoutez, vous obtenez :
« … et la concentrer à l’acide mou en respectant les paramètres et les indications de l’étape XX. »
La phrase devient alors limpide…

Donc le terme serait:

Concentrate (not distil) to soft acid

Proposed translations

+1
44 mins
Selected

(concentrate) without totally drying it/keeping always some liquid

I ignore what technique they are using to concentrate the contents of the aqueous phase (heating/rotary evaporator/distillation?) but this means that this should be done carefully in order not to dry completely the sample(phase) / keeping always some mililiters (or whatever the production scale is) otherwise it would burn or the precipitate/solid won't be able to be resuspended/dissolved again. Work is always carried on on a liquid phase for subsequent steps.

I hope this is understandable? Since I worked for years in labs it looks quite obvious!

https://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/george-chapman-caldwe...
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/moa/AGM0001.0001.001?rgn=main;v...

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Note added at 1 hora (2022-03-11 10:29:00 GMT)
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Well, it depends on the physical properties of the aqueous phase, generally it's not a suspension if starting material is a plant/vegetal (they are talking about organic (solvents) & aqueous phases here!) but yes, an homogeneous liquid that can be concentrated just to some mililiters.

And caution! this is not a "resulting mixture", it clearly states "phase aqueuse épuisée": "resulting aqueous phase" that is going to be concentrated afterwards.

Use of "resulting aqueous phase":
https://hal.umontpellier.fr/hal-02999762/document
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Predicted-dissolved-alde...
https://patents.google.com/patent/US3769384

And "to a more concentrated aqueous phase":
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Predicted-concentration-...

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Note added at 2 horas (2022-03-11 12:12:23 GMT)
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@Mark
Did you manage to assemble the diffferent parts of the sentence (?)
My try (knowing that I don´t have all the info, I assume this is a semi-industrial/industrial scale process, since they are talking about a "cuve" (tank?) and I ignore also the concentration method (guess it's plain heating/destillation):

Add the exhausted aqueous phase from the tank, eliminate all (residual) solvents and concentrate without drying, always respecting/following the parameters and indications for this step/stage XX

Apparently yes, some patents/docs use "exhausted aqueous phase" (aqueous liquid that has undergone main separation from organic solvents, the remnants will evaporate while heating/concentrating the aq.ph.)

https://img.perfumerflavorist.com/files/base/allured/all/doc...
"...(in organic solvent and the exhausted aqueous phase) form
two layers in the separator. The exhausted aqueousphase is..."

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Note added at 3 horas (2022-03-11 12:27:39 GMT)
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This is a good example (wording):
"the tetraalkylammonium chloride aqueous solution is subjected to electrolysis-dialysis in a solution state without drying it into a solid to produce a tetraalkylammonium hydroxide aqueous solution.
https://www.mysciencework.com/patent/show/process-preparatio...

I guess you can also use/specify "concentrate it without drying into a solid" that keeps the notion of "concentrer à mou"

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Note added at 4 días (2022-03-15 14:41:53 GMT)
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Sorry, just saw your last question.

NO, I think you're mixing basic chemistry concepts here.
Unless the solution they are talking about is an acid, you can't use that, and I´m sceptic since you have given few details (2 sentences).

"concentrate it w/o drying into a solid" or "concentrate it avoiding total dryness"
is Ok from the phrase. Cheers.

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Note added at 4 días (2022-03-15 15:03:14 GMT) Post-grading
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OK! Good to know, thanks for sharing!
Note from asker:
Thank you that sounds about the right area. What word would you use for the resulting 'mixture'. Slurry generally seems to be used for organic waste. Could it be a suspension? A homogenous liquid? What is the term between liquid and solid? Thanks
Sorry, your answer seems to be concentrate. Is that enough?
How about concentrate to a soft acid?
The answer (for the customer) is concentrate to a soft extract
Peer comment(s):

agree Alberto Gómez Herrera : All suggestions here are perfectly understandable and have examples to back them up. Also, with the general sentence being "concentrate the organic phase to dryness", it came to me the perhaps imprecise "concentrate the organic phase to almost dryness"
11 hrs
¡Gracias y buen fin de semana!
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1 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Many thanks for your comments and help"

Reference comments

42 mins
Reference:

Note from asker:
I don't think it's a unit of measure, I think it's a state like slurry or solid
Peer comments on this reference comment:

neutral abe(L)solano : I´m sorry but this is just not related to the question. He is asking about the physical concentration step. Heating/distillation etc.
4 mins
OK, I did a suggestion. With the words connotation, we never know. Besides, it's already explained by a lab professional, I guess. Anyway, thanks for the comment.
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