May 9, 2007 13:28
17 yrs ago
135 viewers *
French term

lieudit

French to English Other Real Estate land registry
anyone translated the word "lieudit" into English before?

Although I haven't got a specific example to give here, I've seen it lots of times on property deeds of sale or other documents that describe specific plots of land, and the "lieudit" kind of means the place where the land is (it could be the name of a hamlet or area of a village etc.)
But how do you actually say it in English?

Discussion

Martin Cassell May 9, 2007:
in summary: if, as you say, you don't have a specific example, there is no single "right" translation
Emma Paulay May 9, 2007:
We really need to know whether you need a translation of lieu-dit as part of a postal address, or as a description on deeds. See my answer for a suggestion for the latter.
jean-jacques alexandre May 9, 2007:
"lieu dit" is very common in french real estate, it reefers to a small clump of houses or even to a certain area or district, my former adress for ex. was : so & so 13 lieu dit Robert 33.... St Pierre de Mons
Martin Cassell May 9, 2007:
Ex. "Dans lieudit à proximité du bourg" - see http://www.celtimmo.com/Default.aspx?Cmd=12&GoodId=8542&Head...
Martin Cassell May 9, 2007:
In its stand-alone usage, the nearest English equivalent would be a hamlet, but even that sometimes sounds too big and separate ... often just means a small clump or straggle of houses near a village
BusterK May 9, 2007:
I think you have both the legal use explained by Emma and a more usual one to call any place that is not a town (commune in French).
Emma Paulay May 9, 2007:
I've just sold my house, and bought another. On both deeds, lieu-dit is followed by the first line of the address (ie number, street). It actually refers to the name of the plot. don't know if you'd say plot name in English though...
writeaway May 9, 2007:
Please show the word in context. Impossible to say for sure otherwise.

Proposed translations

+8
15 mins
Selected

place known as

is the solution given by RC and imho it's a good general way of putting it
Peer comment(s):

agree Tony M : Yes, though sadly, 'place' often sounds.. out of place; but it really is the only totally safe bet in all cases!
4 mins
agree Assimina Vavoula
7 mins
agree Martin Cassell : while Tony is right that «lieu-dit» can often just disappear from the translation, if you have to be explicit this is about the best solution
10 mins
agree Eric BILLY
23 mins
agree jean-jacques alexandre : the one & only way
37 mins
agree Conor McAuley
59 mins
agree Julie Barber : is this what we normally call the 'address' in English? ;-)
1 hr
agree Raymonde Gagnier
12 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
8 mins

named place

Lieu qui porte un nom particulier indépendant de celui de la commune à laquelle il appartient

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Note added at 8 minutes (2007-05-09 13:36:53 GMT)
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place-name
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-2
10 mins

called

X, called Y
Peer comment(s):

disagree Tony M : That's not usually the way it is used in these sorts of documents
11 mins
disagree Assimina Vavoula : Yeap.. Tony is right...
14 mins
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+3
15 mins

locality

other possibility
Peer comment(s):

agree Tony M : Sorry, Nathalie, your second answer wasn't showing when I started posting mine!
6 mins
no problem, Tony
agree Assimina Vavoula
7 mins
agree Gina W
1 day 14 hrs
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-2
23 mins

said to be at..

lieu dit -
lieu = place
dit = dire
place said to be at...
Peer comment(s):

disagree Tony M : Sadly, no, Cristina! Your logic is fine, except that in EN, when we say 'said to be...' it very often implies some kind of doubt, as in: "The car, said to be in good working order, broke down within a mile"
4 mins
and in french the meaning is ok? thanks tony
neutral Martin Cassell : that is indeed the etymology, but the word has a life of its own
15 mins
ok thanks martin
disagree Assimina Vavoula : Tony is right...
44 mins
thanks assimina
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27 mins

Property (or 'plot' as approp) address

Following Emma's comment I had a quick look at the paperwork from my house purchase and came up with this - although indirectly.
Peer comment(s):

neutral Tony M : Yes, but the real issue is, what to call this particular ELEMENT of the address?
1 min
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-2
50 mins

located on plot known as

If you need a translation of deeds, this is what is meant, although a legal bod might give you a "proper" translation. Neither the house I've bought, nor the one I've sold, has "lieu-dit" as the actual part of the postal address. As I said, it designates the precise location of the plot in the street. For "lieu dit" as part of a postal address I would have said "hamlet" or whatever...
Peer comment(s):

disagree Tony M : I'm afraid Emma that, despite your empirical observations, the term has a lot wider meaning than merely 'plot', and hence this solution would not work in the vast majority of cases
4 mins
I wasn't looking for a one size fits all translation. I was suggesting something that might fit in property deeds. And I can't see anyone else making any other than empirical observations to be honest.
disagree Assimina Vavoula : Yeap... I think Tony is right
15 mins
He often is Assimina!
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+1
19 mins

locality

I know just what you mean, it always appears in this rather awkward way, and it can indeed mean sometimes just the name of the house, or the hamlet, or even tiny village. I live in the lieudit known as 'le moulin de la Barre', and so do my neighbours down the lane.

Although 'locality' possibly suggests a wider area in EN contexts, I think it often works OK here too, where the rest of the address pins it down a bit more.

You may also at times simply consider that it has no translation value as such, though in such case, I usually put the name of the lieudit in quotes, to try and indicate it has something of the rôle of a proper name, just as in EN we might for the name of a house:

'The Grange', Middlecombe Lane, ...

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Note added at 57 mins (2007-05-09 14:25:26 GMT)
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The term is often encountered when describing a property (quite often rural) that cannot be clearly identified with anything like a street number or name.

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Note added at 1 hr (2007-05-09 14:28:43 GMT)
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To Cristina:

Yes, as Martin said, the word has taken on a whole new meaning of its own in FR. Do note, too, that 'dit' is often used in a way that would in EN be 'known as', as in 'le roi Philippe, dit Bon' > 'King Philip, known as Philip the Fair'
Peer comment(s):

agree Assimina Vavoula : Hi, Tony... Greetings from sunny Greece... How are you?
4 mins
Efhharisto ! Hi, I'm fine thanks, all the better for your sunny greeting!
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11 hrs

situated at/situate at

Another suggestion. Many addresses in English legal documents contain this term, e.g. "the land situated approximately 600 yards to the east of the property known as 76 High Street, and edged in red on the plan attached to the conveyance dated 12th January 1896"
As Tony M correctly says, the term is often encountered when describing a property that cannot be clearly identified with a street number or name.

Peer comment(s):

neutral Tony M : Yes, but it's still the same problem: this term doesn't actually translate the 'lieudit', but would be in addition to it
5 hrs
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-1
18 hrs

said place

another try at smthg that's seems to be a big deal for such a tiny place
Peer comment(s):

disagree Tony M : No, J-J, sadly, that would imply 'the aforementioned place', which is not what is usually meant here, I believe // Sure is, pal!
26 mins
you're correct, indeed. That one is a bugger !
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-1
3 days 3 mins

district

Collins: 2) locality separated by geographical attributes.
I feel that this is a word that can often work as many lieux-dits are named after a particularity of the area.
Peer comment(s):

neutral Tony M : Probably a bit too wide for most uses; lieudit is meant to tie a place down WITHIN a district; suffers from the same fate as 'locality', but I still think the latter is a safer bet.
3 hrs
disagree Nathalie Tomaz : Yes, district could be translated by "region". It is not 'lieu-dit' which is a part of a village....
5 hrs
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