Intromissions

French translation: (actes de) gestion des biens d'autrui (/ ingérences)

09:43 Jun 27, 2022
English to French translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general)
English term or phrase: Intromissions
Toujours dans le FORM CN1 Ecossais

Providing always that the said Executor(s) shall render just count and reckoning for Intromissions therewith, when and where the same shall be legally required.

La terminologie semble propre à l'Ecosse.. que je n'ai jamais rencontrée...
Sylvie André
France
Local time: 04:24
French translation:(actes de) gestion des biens d'autrui (/ ingérences)
Explanation:

[the said Executor(s)] shall render just count and reckoning for Intromissions ...
=
[lesdits exécuteurs testamentaires] devront rendre compte pleinement et correctement de leurs (actes de) gestion des biens d'autrui ...

Can't see any shorter version.

IOW "Executor(s) will be at all time accountable for what they are doing with other people's property", nothing surprising there, but it's expressed in a rather puzzling way if you're not used to that jargon.


"(actes de) gestion des biens d'autrui" would implicitly include "prendre possession" as otherwise there won't be much of "gestion" done.

Another possible way to find a translation: start from the meaning of "intromissions" in this ST being along the lines of:

"s'immiscer" dans la propriété d'autrui

and look for synonyms

Verbe
se mêler, s'entremettre, intervenir, s'ingérer, s'interposer, participer, intercéder, se fourrer, s'infiltrer, s'introduire, se faufiler
https://www.synonymes.com/synonyme.php?mot=s'immiscer

"intromissions" = se mêler des affaires des autres? s'ingérer?

so

"intromissions" = "les ingérences" (dans les affaires d'autrui)?

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Note added at 2 days 15 hrs (2022-06-30 01:29:14 GMT)
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"gestion des biens d'autrui" plenty of search results to confirm that it's a concept corresponding to what is "intromission" in Scottish law.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 16 hrs (2022-06-30 02:18:37 GMT)
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and also that it's a widely used concept, not some exotic rarity that would leave most people baffled.
Selected response from:

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:24
Grading comment
2 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4saisine
Germaine
3 -1(actes de) gestion des biens d'autrui (/ ingérences)
Daryo
3 -3"intromissions"
Samuel Clarisse
Summary of reference entries provided
Definition first
AllegroTrans

Discussion entries: 8





  

Answers


46 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -3
intromissions
"intromissions"


Explanation:
Puisque c'est un concept propre à l'Écosse, pourquoi ne pas garder l'original entre guillemets/en italique ?

Peut-être avec une définition: le fait d'assumer la possession ou la gestion des biens d'autrui avec ou sans autorité

Samuel Clarisse
France
Local time: 04:24
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 58

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Germaine: Comme le mot "intromission" existe en français avec un sens inapproprié à ce contexte, je ne crois pas que ce soit une bonne idée.
13 hrs

disagree  Daryo: no need for that // they might have a rather peculiar way of expressing it in Scottish law, but the concept of "taking care of other people's business/property" is a very basic general concept known everywhere - including in French law..
16 hrs

disagree  AllegroTrans: Agree with Germaine and Daryo
1 day 1 hr
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17 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
intromissions
(actes de) gestion des biens d'autrui (/ ingérences)


Explanation:

[the said Executor(s)] shall render just count and reckoning for Intromissions ...
=
[lesdits exécuteurs testamentaires] devront rendre compte pleinement et correctement de leurs (actes de) gestion des biens d'autrui ...

Can't see any shorter version.

IOW "Executor(s) will be at all time accountable for what they are doing with other people's property", nothing surprising there, but it's expressed in a rather puzzling way if you're not used to that jargon.


"(actes de) gestion des biens d'autrui" would implicitly include "prendre possession" as otherwise there won't be much of "gestion" done.

Another possible way to find a translation: start from the meaning of "intromissions" in this ST being along the lines of:

"s'immiscer" dans la propriété d'autrui

and look for synonyms

Verbe
se mêler, s'entremettre, intervenir, s'ingérer, s'interposer, participer, intercéder, se fourrer, s'infiltrer, s'introduire, se faufiler
https://www.synonymes.com/synonyme.php?mot=s'immiscer

"intromissions" = se mêler des affaires des autres? s'ingérer?

so

"intromissions" = "les ingérences" (dans les affaires d'autrui)?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 15 hrs (2022-06-30 01:29:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"gestion des biens d'autrui" plenty of search results to confirm that it's a concept corresponding to what is "intromission" in Scottish law.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 16 hrs (2022-06-30 02:18:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

and also that it's a widely used concept, not some exotic rarity that would leave most people baffled.

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:24
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 266

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  AllegroTrans: A reasonable attempt but I would like to see credible references in French
9 hrs
  -> Credible reference for what exactly? For basic concepts of law or for the whole combination? You expect for such unusual/rare term to find some "standardised translation" that is so usual/frequent that it would show on top of search results?

disagree  Germaine: Il s'agit du mandat d'un liquidateur, donc gestion/administration/liquidation d'une succession. "Intromissions" a le sens de "interposition" (entre le défunt et les héritiers). "Ingérences" est totalement inadéquat. // Trad.= "saisine". Sûre à 99%.
11 hrs
  -> "Intromissions" est un concept beaucoup plus général, qui se manifeste dans ce texte sous une forme qui revient à une "interposition" (entre le défunt et les héritiers).
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7 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
saisine


Explanation:
« (…) pourvu toujours que ledit ou lesdits exécuteurs fassent juste reddition des comptes de leur saisine en temps et lieu où elle est [légalement exigée] [exigée en vertu de la loi]. »

INTROMISSION Scotch law. The assuming possession of property belonging to another, either on legal grounds, or without any authority; in the latter case, it is called vicious intromission. Bell's S. L. Dict. h. t.
https://www.1215.org/lawnotes/bouvier/bouvier_i.htm

"saisine", i.e. la faculté d'entrer, sans formalité ni autorisation judiciaire, en possession des biens d'une succession ou d'un legs universel.
https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/saisine

…en droit successoral, on entend par saisine l’acte par lequel les héritiers légitimes (héritiers naturels, conjoint survivant) saisissent de plein droit les biens du défunt, appréhendent la succession, c’est-à-dire se mettent en possession, sans formalité préalable, du seul effet de la loi, des biens du de cujus. En outre, l’exécuteur testamentaire peut se saisir, comme eux, des biens dont le testateur lui a conférés la saisine. Sa saisine (sa possession) lui est accordée pour qu’il puisse veiller à l’exécution du testament. (…) Une fois l’exécution du testament terminée, la saisine de l’exécuteur testamentaire prend fin.
https://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2guides/guides/juridi/i...


Germaine
Canada
Local time: 22:24
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: French
PRO pts in category: 760
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Reference comments


8 hrs peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: Definition first

Reference information:
Intromission scotch law

INTROMISSION Scots law. The assuming possession of property belonging to another, either on legal grounds, or without any authority; in the latter case, it is called vicious intromission. Bell's S. L. Dict. h. t.
A Law Dictionary, Adapted to the Constitution and Laws of the United States. By John Bouvier. Published 1856.

Scottish National Dictionary (1700–)

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Abbreviations & symbols Cite this entry

About this entry:
First published 1960 (SND Vol. V).

INTROMISSION, n. 1. Sc. Law: the assuming of the possession or management of someone else's property with or without authority (Sc. 1808 Jam.); in pl. often = transactions of an agent or subordinate with the money of his employer. Gen.Sc.

Hence vitious intromission, “the unwarrantable dealing with moveables of a deceased person, subjecting the offender to unlimited liability for the deceased's debts” (Sc. 1946 A. D. Gibb Legal Terms 93); †wrongous intromission, id. (Sc. 1706 W. Hector Judicial Rec. Rnf. (1876) I. 196)


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Note added at 8 hrs (2022-06-27 17:59:22 GMT)
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Note reference to "Scotch" law - "Scotch" as an adjective for whisky is correct - for almost everything else including most law and people, it is manifestly WRONG

AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 680

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
neutral  Germaine: En common law et dans ce contexte, ça s'appelle la "saisine". Le liquidateur rend compte de sa saisine = de son administration/gestion, etc.
6 hrs
agree  Daryo: clear enough definition - and it's pretty obvious that it's a very general concept, very far from being limited to inherance procedures (like f.ex. "probate").
2 days 7 hrs
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