Jun 22, 2018 07:54
5 yrs ago
24 viewers *
French term
formation diplomante / formation qualifiante
French to English
Other
Education / Pedagogy
Hello,
I am struggling to find the correct translation for these two terms used in a document for a humanitarian organisation that supports training programmes in developing countries. The definitions I have are as follows:
La Formation diplômante donne un diplôme reconnu par l’Etat (CAP, Bac, BTS, etc.)
La Formation qualifiante (CQP, DQP, etc.) donne un certificat qui peut être reconnu par des branches professionnelles mais pas par l’Etat.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I could best distinguish between the two? I was thinking about "state-recognised training course" for "formation diplomante" but am slightly stumped for how to convey the idea of "qualifiante" in "formation qualifiante".
Your help would be much appreciated
I am struggling to find the correct translation for these two terms used in a document for a humanitarian organisation that supports training programmes in developing countries. The definitions I have are as follows:
La Formation diplômante donne un diplôme reconnu par l’Etat (CAP, Bac, BTS, etc.)
La Formation qualifiante (CQP, DQP, etc.) donne un certificat qui peut être reconnu par des branches professionnelles mais pas par l’Etat.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I could best distinguish between the two? I was thinking about "state-recognised training course" for "formation diplomante" but am slightly stumped for how to convey the idea of "qualifiante" in "formation qualifiante".
Your help would be much appreciated
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+1
5 hrs
Selected
state approved training/business and industry training
https://www.gaston.edu/economic-workforce-development/servic...
https://web.uri.edu/prov/certificate-credit-and-non-credit-p...
https://web.uri.edu/prov/certificate-credit-and-non-credit-p...
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Clément Dhollande
17 hrs
|
Thanks!
|
|
neutral |
B D Finch
: It's the diploma that's recognised, not the training.
37 days
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Many thanks for your help. This seems to be the most succinct solution to me."
6 hrs
diploma course / vocational course
I think this makes the distinction
https://www.google.fr/url?q=https://www.vocationaltraininghq...
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Note added at 23 hrs (2018-06-23 07:36:11 GMT)
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I imagined vocational as work-oriented, along the lines of an apprenticeship here (whose definition includes study). An apprenticeship is a Formation', do you think it might fit better?
https://www.google.fr/url?q=https://www.vocationaltraininghq...
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Note added at 23 hrs (2018-06-23 07:36:11 GMT)
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I imagined vocational as work-oriented, along the lines of an apprenticeship here (whose definition includes study). An apprenticeship is a Formation', do you think it might fit better?
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
David Sirett
: I don't think it does. The French BTS, for example, is a state-recognised vocational certificate/diploma
16 hrs
|
+1
2 hrs
training leading to a state-recognised or professional qualification
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_qualifications_in...
I would normally suggested for 'diplômant" - "leading to a diploma/qualification". Here I have turned things around a little to make it less cumbersome as there are two elements.
training = formation ; leading to = "-ant'; etc.
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Note added at 1 day 5 hrs (2018-06-23 13:35:11 GMT)
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I am going to have another stab at this:
training leading to a (state) recgnised diploma / professional development training.
This seems to conform to the idea that it will allow the employee to improve his/her skills, maybe be eligible for promotion, but within a field or firm
https://www.glassdoor.com/employers/blog/5-ways-to-encourage...
https://research.utwente.nl/en/publications/promoting-teache...
I would normally suggested for 'diplômant" - "leading to a diploma/qualification". Here I have turned things around a little to make it less cumbersome as there are two elements.
training = formation ; leading to = "-ant'; etc.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 5 hrs (2018-06-23 13:35:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I am going to have another stab at this:
training leading to a (state) recgnised diploma / professional development training.
This seems to conform to the idea that it will allow the employee to improve his/her skills, maybe be eligible for promotion, but within a field or firm
https://www.glassdoor.com/employers/blog/5-ways-to-encourage...
https://research.utwente.nl/en/publications/promoting-teache...
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
David Sirett
: Plenty of professional qualifications are state-recognised
19 hrs
|
The French, as you have said elsewhere, is not easy to render. However, I will try and revise "professional qualification", as (as I will note), the major difference is that the former gives a certificate/diploma, and the latter does not.
|
|
agree |
B D Finch
: It's important that it's the diploma at the end that is state-recognised, rather than the training itself. Suggest "state-recognised or industry-approved".
35 days
|
Yes indeed. Thanks for your suggestion BD :-)
|
2 days 12 hrs
certifying diploma / professional qualification
"La Formation diplômante donne un diplôme reconnu par l’Etat (CAP, Bac, BTS, etc.)" :
This course/training provides the successful person with a diploma that is recognised by the State.
The difficulty is that a CAP, a Bac Pro and a BTS are also vocational within the English meaning of the term.
"La Formation qualifiante (CQP, DQP, etc.) donne un certificat qui peut être reconnu par des branches professionnelles mais pas par l’Etat."
This course/training provides the successful participant with a diploma that has a professional application.
Note that the FR says "may" be recognised by one (prof) but not the other (State). It does not say that the State does not ever recognise such diplomas.
Example : My Masters 1 in Psychology from a French university is a qualification (UK meaning) that is recognised by the State. It does not give me any recognised vocational qualification at all. However, if I complete an M2 in Psychology (in any field except in Business Organisations), I can obtain the professional qualification as a psychologist and will be able to exercise as such in France.
I also have a DU in Autism, but it is just a diploma, conferring no vocational rights or title. It is described as a "formation diplomante" conferring no professional rights or title.
These terms are awkward to express and I think the definition of the second (qualifiante) is a little confusing. Note that it does say "qui peut être reconnu par des branches professionnelles mais pas par l'Etat". It says "may be recognised by a professional branch but not by the State"; some are recognised by both. An M2 in Clinical psychology is both recognised by professional bodies within France and by the State. I think this should not be overlooked as if you are not careful here, you can easily give the impression that the "diplomante" is state-recognised and that the "qualifiante" is never state-recognised, whereas the latter can be.
Between them, Ormiston and Katsy's answers seem to have it pretty well sewn up. I'm only posting to illustrate my experience and understanding. Not easy to tra,slate into (UK) English though, as "qualification" is often the best way to translate "diploma". To avoid misunderstanding and to avoid the client thinking that the two terms have been confused, there is need for a bit of a trade-off here.
Also, in context, each term is defined, so that can be taken into account in the rendering here. Indeed, the definitions save the day. I prefer to use "professional" in the second instance as some State diplomas are vocational.
Different conceptions and tricky to translate.
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Note added at 2 days 12 hrs (2018-06-24 20:26:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Even "certifying" is awkward, as I intend it to mean that you get a certificate, not that it necessarily certifies you to occupy a particular professional role.
This course/training provides the successful person with a diploma that is recognised by the State.
The difficulty is that a CAP, a Bac Pro and a BTS are also vocational within the English meaning of the term.
"La Formation qualifiante (CQP, DQP, etc.) donne un certificat qui peut être reconnu par des branches professionnelles mais pas par l’Etat."
This course/training provides the successful participant with a diploma that has a professional application.
Note that the FR says "may" be recognised by one (prof) but not the other (State). It does not say that the State does not ever recognise such diplomas.
Example : My Masters 1 in Psychology from a French university is a qualification (UK meaning) that is recognised by the State. It does not give me any recognised vocational qualification at all. However, if I complete an M2 in Psychology (in any field except in Business Organisations), I can obtain the professional qualification as a psychologist and will be able to exercise as such in France.
I also have a DU in Autism, but it is just a diploma, conferring no vocational rights or title. It is described as a "formation diplomante" conferring no professional rights or title.
These terms are awkward to express and I think the definition of the second (qualifiante) is a little confusing. Note that it does say "qui peut être reconnu par des branches professionnelles mais pas par l'Etat". It says "may be recognised by a professional branch but not by the State"; some are recognised by both. An M2 in Clinical psychology is both recognised by professional bodies within France and by the State. I think this should not be overlooked as if you are not careful here, you can easily give the impression that the "diplomante" is state-recognised and that the "qualifiante" is never state-recognised, whereas the latter can be.
Between them, Ormiston and Katsy's answers seem to have it pretty well sewn up. I'm only posting to illustrate my experience and understanding. Not easy to tra,slate into (UK) English though, as "qualification" is often the best way to translate "diploma". To avoid misunderstanding and to avoid the client thinking that the two terms have been confused, there is need for a bit of a trade-off here.
Also, in context, each term is defined, so that can be taken into account in the rendering here. Indeed, the definitions save the day. I prefer to use "professional" in the second instance as some State diplomas are vocational.
Different conceptions and tricky to translate.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 12 hrs (2018-06-24 20:26:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Even "certifying" is awkward, as I intend it to mean that you get a certificate, not that it necessarily certifies you to occupy a particular professional role.
Reference comments
7 mins
Reference:
UCAS qualification equivalents 2015
There's probably a more recent version available
35 days
Reference:
https://www.ableskills.co.uk › ... › Electrical NVQ 2330 Training to be 'Competent'
Mar 31, 2010 - They are likely to be not accredited or approved by statutory training ... that the recognised and industry approved qualification for training to be an ... The rules state that to ensure that these standards are met, all work must ...
Certified Telecoms Professional 09-01-17 - TNS Europe
www.tnseurope.co.uk/BookingRetrieve.aspx?ID=34860
Jan 9, 2017 - The Certified Telecoms Professional is an industry recognised Edexcel ... you gain more than 1 industry approved qualification these include: ...
Derrick Services (UK) Ltd - DSL - OilfieldWiki
www.oilfieldwiki.com/wiki/Derrick_Services_(UK)_Ltd_-_DSL
This is the first Industry recognised training for Derrick Inspectors in the ... can now rely upon this Industry approved qualification and standard for the inspection ...
https://www.ipac-france.com/en/business-school-annecy
State recognised diploma - European Qualifications Framework levels 5, 6 and 7 (school leaving certificate + 2, 3 or 5 years of Higher Education). Programmes ...
Mar 31, 2010 - They are likely to be not accredited or approved by statutory training ... that the recognised and industry approved qualification for training to be an ... The rules state that to ensure that these standards are met, all work must ...
Certified Telecoms Professional 09-01-17 - TNS Europe
www.tnseurope.co.uk/BookingRetrieve.aspx?ID=34860
Jan 9, 2017 - The Certified Telecoms Professional is an industry recognised Edexcel ... you gain more than 1 industry approved qualification these include: ...
Derrick Services (UK) Ltd - DSL - OilfieldWiki
www.oilfieldwiki.com/wiki/Derrick_Services_(UK)_Ltd_-_DSL
This is the first Industry recognised training for Derrick Inspectors in the ... can now rely upon this Industry approved qualification and standard for the inspection ...
https://www.ipac-france.com/en/business-school-annecy
State recognised diploma - European Qualifications Framework levels 5, 6 and 7 (school leaving certificate + 2, 3 or 5 years of Higher Education). Programmes ...
Reference:
https://www.ipac-france.com/en/business-school-annecy
http://www.oilfieldwiki.com/wiki/Derrick_Services_(UK)_Ltd_-_DSL
Discussion
Elles visent une utilisation immédiate dans la sphère professionnelle à travers le développement de compétences ou de qualifications nécessaires à la bonne conduite du poste de l’intéressé.
Ces formations ont principalement pour objectif d’être immédiatement opérationnelles. "formation continue" - so in-service training, no actual certificate but professionally recognised
CQP and DQP are delivered by the state following exams organised and/or supervised by the state.