May 17, 2018 13:05
6 yrs ago
French term

récif à ragues

French to English Tech/Engineering Other marine ecology
see this link (I am translating this site)
http://www.seaboost.fr/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Fiche-tech...

raguer means wear away; but it must mean something else here


thanks

Discussion

Alison MacG May 21, 2018:
Another possibly useful reference Le mot ragues, également provençal : raies, vient de ce que ces rochers sont en couches longitudinales et parallèles à la côte avec des intervalles inégaux en profondeur, et pleins d'une faune verte, qui, par temps calme, donnent la vision de raies (ragues) infinies, se détachant sur la couleur brune ou gris-vert des couches voisines.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bx7xVZAy3bAC&q="Le mot r...

Part of the description of Connectivité (one of the other two modules, the other being Fractal) refers to micro-habitats artificiels (rague de débris coquillers) and assemblage et mise en place des ragues de débris coquilles
http://www.seaboost.fr/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Fiche-tech...
Jackie Doble (asker) May 18, 2018:
both answers are good, I don't know which one to choose from! I think I have a slight preference for Phil's answer, because it clearly states what it is. The agency guy didn't know, so I guess ragues is really an obscure word.
philgoddard May 17, 2018:
I suggested "tiered" in my answer.
Charles Davis May 17, 2018:
Yes, well, artificial reefs have pretty well got to have holes to work, I magine.
If you go for the more descriptive approach, maybe the word "layer" or "layered", could be introduced, to make it clear it's not just one slab. That's what really distinguishes this one, it seems to me: multiple layers with gaps between functioning as crevices. "Multi-layer reef (with crevices)"?
Charles Davis May 17, 2018:
@Phil I don't think "reef with crevices" sounds very good, but nothing more inspired has yet come to mind.
philgoddard May 17, 2018:
Well done, Charles Though I still think my answer is more descriptive than "reef with crevices". If you look at pictures, they nearly all have crevices:
http://www.google.com/search?q=artificial reefs concrete&rlz...
Jackie Doble (asker) May 17, 2018:
looks interesting; thanks Charles!
Charles Davis May 17, 2018:
Here's a Provençal-French dictionary which gives rago as a variant of ragagi, meaning a hole or cavity dug in the shore for fishing.
https://books.google.es/books?id=Eub5HiLlj7EC&pg=PA373&lpg=P...
Charles Davis May 17, 2018:
rague It's in the Trésor:
"A. - MAR., rare. Boule percée diamétralement pour recevoir un cordage. (Dict. xixeet xxes.).
B. - Région. (Sud-Est). Trou dans l'eau"
[...] C empr. au prov. rago subst. fém. « trou, cavité, creux sous-marin » (Mistral t. 2), issu du gr. ρ ̔ α γ η ́ « fente, crevasse » (FEW t. 10, p. 373a)."
http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/rague

And wiktionnaire gives "3. Cavité rocheuse sous-marine.", with the note "Réference nécessaire", presumably related to the Provençal etymology indicated (rago, 'creux sous-marin').
https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/rague

So this could mean a "reef with crevices".
Jackie Doble (asker) May 17, 2018:
yes, I have found the site, doesn't give much indication of what they are, other than they look like that! Must be some geological formation! Will try and find an online geological glossary!
philgoddard May 17, 2018:
Les sars [white seabream] occupent des failles rocheuses appelées « ragues »
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sar_(poisson)
If Wikipedia has to explain it, it must be an uncommon word. You may just have to say something like "concrete slab reefs".
philgoddard May 17, 2018:
It's not in Larousse or Collins. I found one site that said it was inspired by the typical Mediterranean "ragues", but with no further explanation. I think it may be some kind of geological feature.

Proposed translations

42 mins
Selected

tiered concrete-slab reef

See the discussion entries.
"Rague" seems to be a very obscure word, and I may be wrong but I don't think you're going to find an equivalent. You just need a term that describes the design.
Note from asker:
Ok thanks, I have sent an email to the agency director who lives in Nice and is a keen sailor, maybe he will know... will get back to you
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I think this is more understandable Thanks!"
+1
1 hr

multi-layer crevice reef

An alternative, based on my findings and suggestions in the discussion. Personally I think what matters here is the shape rather than what it's made of, and I would be happier including a nod to the actual (apparent) meaning of "ragues". Actually artificial reefs tend to have holes rather than crevices, so I don't think it's a tautology.

"Layer" and "tier" would do equally well.

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Note added at 20 hrs (2018-05-18 09:06:32 GMT)
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It is not a common word, clearly, and I think it's almost certainly regional (south-west); Provençal origin would fit that. But it certainly seems to be standard in diving circles. If you look for "ragues" + "sous-marin" you find quite a lot of examples. And I think the meaning is definitely crevices, specifically horizontal ones: deep, narrow cavities where fish and crustaceans lurk.

I still think that because the object of this particular artificial reef is to create a habitat with crevices, the emphasis should be on the "ragues": the gaps between the slabs rather than the slabs themselves.

Here's the French version of a document on the best Spanish diving sites. It uses the word "ragues" three times, referring to the Catalan coastline, and each time it's translating the Spanish word "grietas", which means cracks or crevices. For example:

"Les parois, tapissées de belles gorgones, possèdent de nombreuses ragues qui abritent congres, murènes et langoustes"
https://issuu.com/estacionesnauticas/docs/les_meilleures_des... (p. 2)

Spanish version:
"La pared, tapizada de bellas gorgonias, muestra numerosas grietas con congrios, morenas y langostas"
https://issuu.com/estacionesnauticasdemenorca/docs/30mejores...

This is about a wreck colonised by fish:

"Au printemps, des bancs de sars et de saupes [...] dans les interstices des carcasses, formant alors d'immenses ragues"
https://books.google.es/books?id=hbsTCwAAQBAJ&pg=PT246&lpg=P...

Another indication that it's specifically a horizontal crevice:

"Suivant le type de roche ou sa configuration, on peut parier du type de poisson que l'on peut trouver. Ainsi, ragues horizontales et autres failles verticales ou obliques sont des endroits privilégiés pour le sar."
http://magieweb.pagesperso-orange.fr/plonge2.html
Peer comment(s):

neutral philgoddard : If it's tiered, then by definition it has crevices. // But there's a picture, so you couldn't misinterpret it.
1 hr
No, not necessarily; it depends whether there are gaps between the tiers. That is one of my main reasons for offereing an alternative; "tiered" could well be interpreted as stepped (like a Maya pyramid). Better to clarity.
agree B D Finch : Reef with crevices would probably be enough, but your description is more complete.
3 hrs
Thanks, Barbara
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