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Homo sapiens, who not only know but know we know

English translation: homo sapiens, the "wise ones"

18:09 Jun 28, 2023
English language (monolingual) [PRO]
Social Sciences - Anthropology / homo sapiens
English term or phrase: Homo sapiens, who not only know but know we know
Dear colleagues, I was wondering about the meaning of the sentence “Homo sapiens, the ones who not only know but know we know”. Maybe I’m mistaken, but it seems to me that this definition refers to Homo sapiens sapiens, not to Homo sapiens? Or might it have another meaning in this context?
Thank you so much for your help!

*************

The genus of Homo, sometimes broadly called “humans,” seems to have evolved on Earth somewhere around 5 million years ago, and some studies place the appearance of our species – what we’ve come to name *** Homo sapiens, the ones who not only know but know we know ***, sometimes called the “wise ones” – in Africa sometime between 350,000 and 130,000 years ago. We and our Neanderthal cousins used tools and lived in groups.
haribert
Local time: 08:10
Selected answer:homo sapiens, the "wise ones"
Explanation:
See discussion. On taking another look I realise that this is even more of a mess than first thought

Note that your sentence has errors:
"Homo sapiens, the ones who not only know but know we know, sometimes called the “wise ones” – in Africa sometime between 350,000 and 130,000 years ago.
This is NOT talking about "homo sapiens sapiens" as such (which only started to originate about 160,000 years ago), but rather the earlier human types, including "our Neanderthal cousins (who used tools and lived in groups)"

So better to translate as ... "homo sapiens, sometimes called the “wise ones” – in Africa sometime between 350,000 and 130,000 years ago.

You could add to clarify
We, the early modern humans, "Homo sapiens sapiens" (wise ones aware they are wise) and our Neanderthal cousins used tools and lived in groups (at that time).


definition
"Homo sapiens sapiens": a subspecies of Homo sapiens where modern human beings belong and are the only extant species of the Homo genus, originated around 160,000 years ago so were living for some time with homo sapiens.

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Note added at 1 day 21 hrs (2023-06-30 15:44:21 GMT)
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in other words, the 2 types, homo sapiens and homo sapiens sapiens are intermingling after 160,000 years ago. So for the period in question, from 350, 00 to 160, 000 it is really just homo sapiens. Hence you can't use "who not only know but know THEY know"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 21 hrs (2023-06-30 15:51:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

typo: 350, 00 to 160, 000
should be 350,000 to 160,000

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 21 hrs (2023-06-30 15:52:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

the distinction has to be made based on the time period

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 days (2023-07-06 00:54:51 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Hi Haribert, glad to have helped. It is quite convoluted.
I agree that the distinction is often not made these days but in this case, where the author is using the extra phrase, the extra "sapiens" is probably necessary too i.e. Homo sapiens sapiens: "the ones who not only know but know they know" (I still contend that "we" is wrong on a gramatical level) OR the rephrasing I suggested in the Dbox "the wise ones who are aware/know they are wise" since "wise ones" are already mentioned in the text.
Anyway, good luck!
Selected response from:

Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 07:10
Grading comment
Dear Yvonne, thank you for your contribution! Actually, if you see the Discussion, there seems to be a debate about the difference between Homo sapiens and Homo sapiens sapiens (it seems that some authors don’t make this distinction any longer...). But I agree with you that some distinction, at least at a linguistic level, should be made, also because “Homo sapiens sapiens” is still a well-known “phrase”.
So I made the following suggestion to editor and publisher: including the definition “Homo sapiens sapiens” in parenthesis after the phrase "who not only know but know THEY know"..

4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED
4we homo sapiens, who not only have knowledge, but are also aware of that fact
Daryo
4homo sapiens, the "wise ones"
Yvonne Gallagher
Summary of reference entries provided
Zoi Patrinou

Discussion entries: 22





  

Answers


4 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
homo sapiens, who not only know but know we know
we homo sapiens, who not only have knowledge, but are also aware of that fact


Explanation:
or

we (collectively as the species) homo sapiens, we not only have knowledge (/the capacity to learn), but we are also aware of that fact (we know that we are capable of knowing).

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Note added at 4 days (2023-07-02 22:26:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Forget about it, and come back later - and suddenly it makes sense.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2023-07-02 22:31:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


... what we’ve come to name Homo sapiens, the ones who not only know but know we know,
=
... what we’ve come to name Homo sapiens, as we (collectively as the species) homo sapiens, we not only have knowledge (/the capacity to learn), but we are also aware of that fact (we know that we are capable of knowing).

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:10
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in FrenchFrench
Notes to answerer
Asker: Daryo, thank you for your contribution. The problem is that there seems to be a debate about the difference between Homo sapiens and Homo sapiens sapiens.... the phrase “homo sapiens, who not only know but know we know” and your accurate rephrasing “we homo sapiens, who not only have knowledge, but are also aware of that fact” is actually the translation of “homo sapiens sapiens”...so I feel I have to include this definition, too and I pointed it out to the editor. I So I have written it in parenthesis after the Italian translation of this sentence, and I’ll see whether my suggestion will be accepted....


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Yvonne Gallagher: From 350,000 to 160, 000 it is just "homo sapiens". Hence you can't use "who not only know but know THEY know" (or your clumsy version of that)
13 hrs
  -> all correct, but as far as I can see the point of this question is in "who not only know but know we know" - self awareness
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1 day 21 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
homo sapiens, who not only know but know we know
homo sapiens, the "wise ones"


Explanation:
See discussion. On taking another look I realise that this is even more of a mess than first thought

Note that your sentence has errors:
"Homo sapiens, the ones who not only know but know we know, sometimes called the “wise ones” – in Africa sometime between 350,000 and 130,000 years ago.
This is NOT talking about "homo sapiens sapiens" as such (which only started to originate about 160,000 years ago), but rather the earlier human types, including "our Neanderthal cousins (who used tools and lived in groups)"

So better to translate as ... "homo sapiens, sometimes called the “wise ones” – in Africa sometime between 350,000 and 130,000 years ago.

You could add to clarify
We, the early modern humans, "Homo sapiens sapiens" (wise ones aware they are wise) and our Neanderthal cousins used tools and lived in groups (at that time).


definition
"Homo sapiens sapiens": a subspecies of Homo sapiens where modern human beings belong and are the only extant species of the Homo genus, originated around 160,000 years ago so were living for some time with homo sapiens.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 21 hrs (2023-06-30 15:44:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

in other words, the 2 types, homo sapiens and homo sapiens sapiens are intermingling after 160,000 years ago. So for the period in question, from 350, 00 to 160, 000 it is really just homo sapiens. Hence you can't use "who not only know but know THEY know"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 21 hrs (2023-06-30 15:51:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

typo: 350, 00 to 160, 000
should be 350,000 to 160,000

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 21 hrs (2023-06-30 15:52:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

the distinction has to be made based on the time period

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 days (2023-07-06 00:54:51 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Hi Haribert, glad to have helped. It is quite convoluted.
I agree that the distinction is often not made these days but in this case, where the author is using the extra phrase, the extra "sapiens" is probably necessary too i.e. Homo sapiens sapiens: "the ones who not only know but know they know" (I still contend that "we" is wrong on a gramatical level) OR the rephrasing I suggested in the Dbox "the wise ones who are aware/know they are wise" since "wise ones" are already mentioned in the text.
Anyway, good luck!

Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 07:10
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Dear Yvonne, thank you for your contribution! Actually, if you see the Discussion, there seems to be a debate about the difference between Homo sapiens and Homo sapiens sapiens (it seems that some authors don’t make this distinction any longer...). But I agree with you that some distinction, at least at a linguistic level, should be made, also because “Homo sapiens sapiens” is still a well-known “phrase”.
So I made the following suggestion to editor and publisher: including the definition “Homo sapiens sapiens” in parenthesis after the phrase "who not only know but know THEY know"..
Notes to answerer
Asker: Dear Yvonne, initially I made the same suggestion as you do to our editor. But, if you see the discussion, there seems to be a debate about the distinction between Homo sapiens and Homo sapiens sapiens... Anyway I think your remarks are right.. Thank you for suggesting an answer!


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Daryo: all correct, but that's not the point made in the ST.
2 days 6 hrs
  -> you obviously haven't read my answer or taken note of the time period or understood the errors
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Reference comments


6 mins peer agreement (net): +1
Reference

Reference information:
Homo sapiens sapiens is the sub-species that stems from Homo sapiens. Have a look here. I think you have understood it correctly.
https://www.biologyonline.com/dictionary/homo-sapiens-sapien...

Zoi Patrinou
Greece
Native speaker of: Native in GreekGreek
Note to reference poster
Asker: Thank you so much, Zoi, for your contribution!


Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Rodrigo Gonçalves
3 hrs
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