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French to English translations [PRO] Law/Patents - Law (general)
French term or phrase:organisme de droit commun
Documents relating a large company's (AAA) disability policies...
"En formant les équipes RH et l'encadrement sur le recrutement de personnes en situation de handicap et ses éventuelles spécificités (sourcing, dispositifs d'aide mobilisables), et ce, afin que la question du handicap soit encore davantage intégrée dans les pratiques et les process de recrutement en vigueur. AAA s'attachera également à diversifier et élargir ses filières de recrutement : En développant les contacts et la mise en place de partenariats locaux avec les organismes spécialisés (réseau Cap Emploi, associations handicap) et les référents handicap des organismes de droits commun (Missions locales, Pôle Emploi...)"
"En cas d'accord, la prise en charge financière des solutions de transport se fera sur la base des frais restant à la charge du salarié reconnu travailleur handicapé, tenant compte des niveaux d'engagement prévus au budget du présent accord. Une participation financière pour l'aménagement du véhicule personnel peut être prise en compte dans le cadre du budget du présent accord, après sollicitation par le salarié reconnu travailleur handicapé concerné des aides dispensées par les organismes de droit commun (Agefiph, MDPH)."
NB Agefiph = Association de Gestion du Fonds pour l’Insertion Professionnelle des Personnes Handicapées, MDPH = Maison Départementale pour les Personnes Handicapées
"Ordinary law organisation" doesn't feel right. There's probably a more common English expression to cover these types of organisation.
Explanation: I cannot find refs just now but I remember translating it thus some time ago, after doing alot of research and coming up with this
"Droit commun" seems a strange moniker
Quelles sont les structures de droit commun ? Les catégories de collectivités locales de droit commun sont les communes, les départements et les régions (art.20 Nov 2020
Les collectivités territoriales de droit commun| vie-publique.fr
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or maybe "public service agency"
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Here is a definition of "droit commun" in this context:
C’est quoi le droit commun ? Le droit commun correspond aux politiques sectorielles (santé, développement économique, éducation, urbanisme, etc.) qui s’appliquent sur l’ensemble d’un territoire sans distinction entre les quartiers. Ces politiques de droit commun relèvent des compétences de l’Etat et de tous les niveaux de collectivités locales : Région, Département, Intercommunalité, Commune. On peut donc parler « des droits communs ». Ce droit commun représente les engagements « financiers » des politiques publiques (budgets, dispositifs, appels à projet, subventionnements...) mais aussi les effectifs humains, le matériel et les équipements publics mis sur un territoire. https://www.irev.fr/sites/default/files/dossier_ressources_d...
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Mpoma: Sea d’ól mé é I "think" that attempt at Irish grammar is correct...
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 days 16 mins (2022-06-06 15:13:38 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Yes, no simple one-fits-all words for"yes" and "no" words in Irish - and it's similar in Welsh and Breton. My Irish wife is also the "genuine article" and confirms. Bíodh lá maith agat!
even about the step one: what "un organisme de droit commun" means as used in the source text.
It DOES mean "A body governed by general law (lex generalis)", and the practical aspect of it relevant is this ST is that "un organisme de droit commun" deals with / is open to the general public.
THAT interpretation
(1) agrees with what is "le droit commun" - a very fundamental concept that is not going to be shifted and twisted from one text to another- and more importantly
(2) is perfectly consistent with the logic of the whole sentence. As in: "we are going to find partners specialised in disabled jobseekers and also partners dealing with (jobseekers from) the general public (i.e. as they are "body governed by general law " they are open to everyone)
All that in my textbook makes it the right one.
The fact also is that you get zero ghits for "body governed by general law". In England you also have laws that apply to everyone (as opposed to laws that apply only to specific groups) but it looks like no one bothers to explicitly call them "general law". Which doesn't make "a body governed by general law" a less accurate translation.
There is a term for "agencies (you mean bodies) open to the general public: it's "bodies open to the general public". But that's not what the French term means.
Capitals at the start of sentences would be good too.
all your references are very relevant, and the end result in practical terms is the one I'm talking about.
in this company, they want get in touch and establish partnerships with agencies dealing ONLY with disabled peoples (= les organismes spécialisés) and also with agencies dealing with EVERYONE, with the general population (= les organismes de droit commun).
AFAIK there isn't any special label for agencies open to the general public (as opposed to those dealing only with specific groups of people), so some creativity is needed.
ph-b (X)
France
organismes prévus par le droit commun
12:53 Jun 6, 2022
“basis for”: I meant it as a starting point for further thought, not to be copied literally: it would have been too long.
But if organisme de droit commun really is untranslatable, why not paraphrase the source text so that the gist is retained, while making translation possible: e.g., les organismes prévus par le droit commun. This would translate as “organisations provided for by ordinary law”. To me, this (or words to that effect) would be more satisfactory than calling these organismes de droit commun anything that they are not, especially since, with respect to "public service agency", droit commun and droit public are two different things.
What about "agency/organisation not subject to specific regulation"?
Bit of a mouthful but it perhaps gets to the essence of the French meaning? In fact my feeling is that it is too much of a mouthful, in the sense of drawing attention to itself to the point of probably distracting the reader when in reality the expression for a French person is banal.
I think I'll end up going for AllegroT's "public service agency", which is pretty much the thing, and not too distracting.
Chris, I agree with "tricky one", despite Emmanuella's great research, and with "more than one way to translate this", but I'm not a fan of "official [State/Government, presumably] agency".
I'll explain:
As regards the examples we have: the word organismes/bodies is used for good reason I think.
Agefiph: an "association" -- a charity, society, or non-profit, whatever's to your taste. Not a State/government agency.
Maison Départementale pour les Personnes Handicapées: if you dig in the legal notice (Mentions Légales), it turns out that this body is a "Etablissement public administratif" (see https://mdphenligne.cnsa.fr/mdph/02/mentions_legales, point 1), thus an entity approaching a State-owned company, not so different to the SNCF, EDF and GDF back in pre-privatisation days.
Thus the word organismes/bodies is a very deliberate choice by the person writing this -- the bodies encompass different types of entities.
But you have caused extra research to be carried out into this question, which is obviously positibe.
Something completely different -- well done Wales! Wales v England in Qatar should be a buzz! Can Wales qualify from their group ahead of the US and Iran?
...as there is more than one way to "translate" this, depending on which feature of these "organismes" you care to stress. One possible solution: keep the French and explain in brackets with "official agency"
Many organisations are bound to be subject to varying secondary legislation or regulations of some kind. Basing a translation on the connection to the law simply doesn't work in English imo. There are several attempts here to reflect the (loosely speaking) "official" nature of such bodies, but almost every one of them has Daryo's "red mark" of disdain.
ph-b (X)
France
Organismes de droit commun
16:44 Jun 5, 2022
"any organisation that is not subject to specific laws and regulations" is what it means. Is there a legal term in English that would summarise this? If not, could this be used as the basis for an answer?
ph-b (X)
France
Organismes de droit commun
15:51 Jun 5, 2022
« par droit commun, il conviendrait d’entendre les dispositions qui s’appliquent de façon générale, chaque fois qu’une règle particulière n’y déroge pas » ; le droit commun serait le droit auquel on se réfère pour trancher le litige en l’absence de règle spéciale ; le droit commun réunirait « toute disposition dont l’objet ou le domaine d’application est soit indéfini soit défini, mais servant de texte de référence à des dispositions à objets plus restreints ». (...) Le droit commun se définit par son contenu très vaste, c’est par là qu’il se confond avec le droit général, mais aussi par ses fonctions, à la fois théoriques, comme référent, et pratiques, pour pallier les carences du droit spécial. Par opposition, le droit spécial est alors celui qui, attaché à une matière déterminée, s’appuie sur les notions contenues dans le droit commun pour être applicable. (https://tel.archives-ouvertes.fr/tel-00705891/document)
Les organismes (et politiques, moyens, etc.) de droit commun sont ceux auxquels aucun droit spécial ne s'applique. C'est leur nature, c'est ce qui doit être traduit, quel que soit leur statut ou champ d'application, sans effet sur la traduction ici.
AllegroTrans' comment is pretty helpful and we (with one notable exception as usual) all have a good idea of what is meant. They are government created or privately-run bodies with a convention with the state.They all have specific missions, and in this case, it is to help the disabled, but this part is not emphasised in the words to translate, but is explained in the body of the text.
"Body open to the general public" sounds like a euphemism for "une fille de joie".
The "bodies that further the State's duties" then, as per this definition of "droit commun", at least, then.
But I would argue that those duties, in the context, boil down to what I have already stated in my last answer, namely "measures in favour of disabled workers".
is not referrring to the "ordinary law" (at least not directly). Here is the definition: Le droit commun correspond aux politiques sectorielles (santé, développement économique, éducation, urbanisme, etc.) qui s’appliquent sur l’ensemble d’un territoire sans distinction entre les quartiers. Ces politiques de droit commun relèvent des compétences de l’Etat et de tous les niveaux de collectivités locales : Région, Département, Intercommunalité, Commune. On peut donc parler « des droits communs ». Ce droit commun représente les engagements « financiers » des politiques publiques (budgets, dispositifs, appels à projet, subventionnements...) mais aussi les effectifs humains, le matériel et les équipements publics mis sur un territoire. https://www.irev.fr/sites/default/files/dossier_ressources_d...
All bodies come under "lex generalis" to some degree. "Body under lex generalis" could apply to any body or organisation "Body open to the general population" is laughable with zero Ghits of course
...uses the term "de droit commun" as shorthand for the statutory situation as it stands. English-speaking readers will need a more explicit description of the state of affairs.
Le droit commun est l’ensemble de règles juridiques applicables à toutes les situations qui ne sont pas soumises à des règles spéciales ou particulières.
Une tentative prosaïque de définition de « l’accès aux droits » permet rapidement de cerner l’idée que cela recouvre : il s’agit de ramener les bénéficiaires de l’action sociale au « droit commun », c’est-à-dire au bénéfice des biens, services et prestations disponibles pour tous les citoyens.
Employer. Employer means the common law entity that established the Plan under which the Contract was issued. The Employer must be an organization described in Code Section 403(b)(1)(A).
i) In the case of a section 403(b) plan that covers the employees of more than one section 501(c)(3) organization, the universal availability requirement of this paragraph (b) applies separately to each common law entity (that is, applies separately to
Ana Vozone Local time: 18:44 Works in field Native speaker of: Portuguese PRO pts in category: 24
peer agreement (net): -3
