Glossary entry

Italian term or phrase:

pittura antica

English translation:

premodern/pre-twentieth-century painting

Added to glossary by philgoddard
Apr 11, 2015 21:13
9 yrs ago
5 viewers *
Italian term

pittura antica

Italian to English Art/Literary Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting History of Art
The exact phrase is from a dedication (a vote of thanks, really) in a piece of academic writing:

"Grazie a _________, cui devo l’avermi riconciliato con gli studi sulle tecniche e le pratiche organizzative e esecutive della pittura antica. "

Now, I'm pretty convinced that this is not simply "ancient painting" in the sense of the painting of Ancient Rome/ Ancient Greece etc. and that in general, "arte antica" is used for much more recent art than we would normally call "ancient" ... see for example the artists covered in this publisher's range of titles on "arte antica":

http://www.skira.net/en/category/arte-antica

or, indeed, the period covered by the Galleria d'Arte Antica in Rome. Really it's almost defined in contrast to "arte moderna" ... really right up through the Renaissance and the Baroque and perhaps a little beyond.

So the question is really, is there a way of expressing this in English without going into a long definition?

Any suggestions welcome.
Change log

May 4, 2015 17:55: philgoddard Created KOG entry

Discussion

James (Jim) Davis Apr 23, 2015:
@dsd sl sarebbe antiquariato!
James Stuart (asker) Apr 13, 2015:
@Jim Thanks everyone. In response to Jim's point, the subject of the paper I'm translating is the technical/procedural side of Caravaggio's painting, and discusses Cennini, Vasari, Armenini and other 15th - 16th century writers (though there is a brief mention of Pliny, and he does seem well versed on more "ancient" authors). This seems to be the author's field of expertise ... the work of the guy he's thanking covers a broader area, and he has been published on subjects from "ancient" art as we would understand it, and more recent stuff... so there is a small doubt. All the same, what I am asking about is how to express the concept of "arte antica" in its sense of "pre-modern" art ... Hopefully I can get some clarification of which is more appropriate from the client.
James (Jim) Davis Apr 13, 2015:
@James The term can be used in two senses. One would be up to and including the Roman period, maybe a bit later (narrow meaning) and two in the broader sense of anything premodern, which clearly cannot be translated with ancient in English. You have to know which your author means before you can translate. You need to research this person and find out what he studied. If he studied Greek and Roman art, then premodern won't do the trick. If he studied Michelangelo, then ancient will be wrong.
writeaway Apr 12, 2015:
@Wendy excellent suggestion. You should post it before someone else does.
Wendy Streitparth Apr 12, 2015:
I would suggest period painting or period art, if it didn't have other connotations!
Lara Barnett Apr 11, 2015:
Traditional Would "traditional" artwork or painting be appropriate? Or do you think this might be referring to the technical side rather than the historical side?

Proposed translations

+2
13 hrs
Selected

premodern/pre-twentieth-century painting

I think you put your finger on it when you say it's everything that's not modern.
Peer comment(s):

agree James (Jim) Davis : With premodern Phil. Modern art begins more or less with impressionism around the 1860s. Of course Arte Antica can also be used in the narrower sense as ancient art Greek and Roman Art and earlier periods.
16 hrs
agree contesei
22 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
42 mins

in the history of painting

= "della pittura antica" - would that work?

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Note added at 44 mins (2015-04-11 21:58:34 GMT)
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it gets away from the dichotomy between "pittura antica" as understood in art history (ancient Greek and Roman art) and "pittura antica" as understood in a certain Italian parlance, where it means "anything up until the day before yesterday".
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9 hrs

old painting

all that comes to mindç
"antique" too often refers to the same thing as "antique furniture"
"ancient", you are right, is too specific.
"old" may also be used on, say, EBay to indicate simply ann old arty article. However, in the context of both the phrase and the book dedication I don't see any problem with "old".
I would not use "traditional" for it refers too much to a method
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+1
18 hrs

Traditional painting styles / Traditional art

An idea.
Peer comment(s):

agree Neptunia : I use "traditional" in place of "antica" frequently.
15 hrs
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+1
1 day 9 hrs

period painting / art

My suggestion
Peer comment(s):

agree writeaway
3 hrs
Thanks a lot, writeaway!
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1 day 15 hrs

classic art/painting

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1 day 14 hrs

in the history of art/painting

With the extra context (very late in arrival), couldn't you work something in using the word history as a sort of metonym for the past "kings in history" means "past kings"

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Note added at 11 days (2015-04-23 12:36:45 GMT)
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Sorry Tom! Didn't see yours.
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