Feb 29, 2012 11:55
12 yrs ago
French term
le siège d'onde
French to English
Tech/Engineering
Ships, Sailing, Maritime
Ship design
Hello,
I would be grateful for help with the following term: le siège d'onde. It occurs in a text about cruise lines and refers to the design of the ship. The rest of the sentence is:
... le dernier projet de XXX qui dans le dessin de la carène applique des idées élaborées comme le siège d'onde, une forme particulière de la proue, et la poupe en guidage de flux, capable de mettre en valeur la forme caractéristique de la coque.
I came up with: ... In his design for the hull, he applied ideas such as the wave seat, the particular shape of the bow, and stern flow guide, which could emphasise the characteristic shape of the hull.
What on earth is a "wave seat?" Any suggestions welcome! (I don't know what "stern flow guide" is either, but that is another question.)
Thank you,
Jane
I would be grateful for help with the following term: le siège d'onde. It occurs in a text about cruise lines and refers to the design of the ship. The rest of the sentence is:
... le dernier projet de XXX qui dans le dessin de la carène applique des idées élaborées comme le siège d'onde, une forme particulière de la proue, et la poupe en guidage de flux, capable de mettre en valeur la forme caractéristique de la coque.
I came up with: ... In his design for the hull, he applied ideas such as the wave seat, the particular shape of the bow, and stern flow guide, which could emphasise the characteristic shape of the hull.
What on earth is a "wave seat?" Any suggestions welcome! (I don't know what "stern flow guide" is either, but that is another question.)
Thank you,
Jane
Proposed translations
(English)
| 1 -1 | bulbous bow |
Graham macLachlan
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| 4 | Bow vane / bow wave breaker. |
Andrew Bramhall
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| 3 -1 | wave base |
kashew
|
References
| Source text |
Michael GREEN
|
Proposed translations
-1
59 mins
Selected
bulbous bow
no time to look into it further, thus a guess
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Note added at 1 day2 hrs (2012-03-01 14:40:39 GMT)
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http://it.paperblog.com/oceanic-a-napoli-28309/
"con prora a clipper e sede d'onda,"
I don't speak Italian but I bet the above says "with a clipper bow and a (bow) bulb "
The boat in question is the former SS Oceanic, and this is what an EN website has to say about it :
S.S. OCEANIC
www.classicliners.net/SS_OCEANIC.html
History of SS OCEANIC, STARSHIP OCEANIC, Big Red Boat. ... consisted of the same cutter style bow and swan neck stem, and a bulbous bow below the waterline. .... By March of 2009, she had been made the new vessel for the Peaceboat ...
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Note added at 5 days (2012-03-06 06:02:34 GMT) Post-grading
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I consulted an Italian naval architecte about "sede d'onda" and this is what he replied :
"sede d'onda - generated wave profile : this exercise is what a ship designer goes through when trying to design the generated wave profile, which will influence the resistance and therefore the required engine power"
Although this new information might confuse a newcomer to the world of ships and shipping, I don't think it is inconsistent, in this context at least, with "bulbous bow".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day2 hrs (2012-03-01 14:40:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
http://it.paperblog.com/oceanic-a-napoli-28309/
"con prora a clipper e sede d'onda,"
I don't speak Italian but I bet the above says "with a clipper bow and a (bow) bulb "
The boat in question is the former SS Oceanic, and this is what an EN website has to say about it :
S.S. OCEANIC
www.classicliners.net/SS_OCEANIC.html
History of SS OCEANIC, STARSHIP OCEANIC, Big Red Boat. ... consisted of the same cutter style bow and swan neck stem, and a bulbous bow below the waterline. .... By March of 2009, she had been made the new vessel for the Peaceboat ...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 days (2012-03-06 06:02:34 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
I consulted an Italian naval architecte about "sede d'onda" and this is what he replied :
"sede d'onda - generated wave profile : this exercise is what a ship designer goes through when trying to design the generated wave profile, which will influence the resistance and therefore the required engine power"
Although this new information might confuse a newcomer to the world of ships and shipping, I don't think it is inconsistent, in this context at least, with "bulbous bow".
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Michael GREEN
: Hi Graham - I think we are talking wave formation here (the bulbous bow obviously affects that, but I don't think it is what is meant by le siège de l'onde) // yes, so the translation is roughly "the wave base, a specially-shaped bow, etc" ;o)
9 mins
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I take it that "une forme particulière de la proue" is a definition of "le siège d'onde", a misuse of terminology// Sorry, Hi Mike !
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| disagree |
Andrew Bramhall
: It may well have a bulbous bow, but that's unlikely to be the terminological translation.//No I'm not, you are; you admitted it was an unresearched guess from the outset, and sadly it's a wrong one.
21 hrs
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with respect, you are talking rubbish
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "The reference was very helpful, thank you. "
-1
58 mins
wave base
Definitely used in wave study, but I'm not sure it's applicable here.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Michael GREEN
: Yes, I'm not sure of the correct technical term, but I think you are on the right lines here // and with all respect to OT, it is indeed connected with wave formation, not some exotic form of deckchair...
9 mins
|
| disagree |
Andrew Bramhall
: Highly unlikely
21 hrs
|
1 day 23 mins
Andrew Bramhall
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
United Kingdom
Flair and accuracy tailored to your text
Native in: English 
Works in: Spanish to English, German to English
Related KudoZ points
:
8
Bow vane / bow wave breaker.
Bow Wave Dynamics
20/01/2010 · ... Ship Research, Vol. 46, No. 1, March 2002, pp. 1–15 Journal of Ship Research Bow Wave ... Lon gu et -Higgins, M. 1995 On the disintegration of the jet in a plunging breaker.
www.docstoc.com/docs/22879289Pare-lame > wave-breaker
Future AAV7A1s and variants MAY HAVE A BOW VANE TO IMPROVE AMPHIBIOUS ..... A STRONG TRANSPARENT WAVE breaker on the front can be raised and lowered ...
www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/military_defense/31859...
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Note added at 1 day27 mins (2012-03-01 12:23:23 GMT)
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It's a French calque of the Italian "seda d'onda" except it's nothing to do with 'siège' as in 'seat'- 'sedare' in Italian means, amongst other things, to sooth, alleviate, crush and squash, with reference here to the impact of waves on the bow.
20/01/2010 · ... Ship Research, Vol. 46, No. 1, March 2002, pp. 1–15 Journal of Ship Research Bow Wave ... Lon gu et -Higgins, M. 1995 On the disintegration of the jet in a plunging breaker.
www.docstoc.com/docs/22879289Pare-lame > wave-breaker
Future AAV7A1s and variants MAY HAVE A BOW VANE TO IMPROVE AMPHIBIOUS ..... A STRONG TRANSPARENT WAVE breaker on the front can be raised and lowered ...
www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/military_defense/31859...
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Note added at 1 day27 mins (2012-03-01 12:23:23 GMT)
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It's a French calque of the Italian "seda d'onda" except it's nothing to do with 'siège' as in 'seat'- 'sedare' in Italian means, amongst other things, to sooth, alleviate, crush and squash, with reference here to the impact of waves on the bow.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Michael GREEN
: What happened to the coxswain's seat ...? // Exactitude? "Sede" (not "seda" - you copied my typo) does mean "seat" - and a "bow vane", apart from its use in archery, is a device for an amphibious vehicle, not a cruise liner.
23 mins
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I removed it because it was wrong, in the light of subsequent developments, and some of us aren't too proud to admit we're wrong,// sadly no points ever get awarded for imagination, not in this game. Only for exactitude.
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Reference comments
23 hrs
Reference:
Source text
The source text (which comes up frequently if you Google it) is talking about the Costa Croisières line (the owners of 2 vessels in the news recently), and Asker's quote is talking about Nicolò Costanzi's hull designs.
If you Google "Nicolò Costanzi" you'll mostly get Italian sites describing his work, and I am wondering if the FR text Asker is translating (which is also available in EN....) has not been poorly translated from the Italian.
I suggest Asker posts a question with IT-FR as the language pair, to establish whether "siège d'onde" (which is "seda d'onda" in the text below) is the correct FR translation. Or even IT-EN, for the EN term she seeks...
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Note added at 1 day48 mins (2012-03-01 12:43:55 GMT)
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Jane: Glad to have put you on (what may be) the right track. We will all be interested to learn what your FR-IT enquiry comes up with!
If you Google "Nicolò Costanzi" you'll mostly get Italian sites describing his work, and I am wondering if the FR text Asker is translating (which is also available in EN....) has not been poorly translated from the Italian.
I suggest Asker posts a question with IT-FR as the language pair, to establish whether "siège d'onde" (which is "seda d'onda" in the text below) is the correct FR translation. Or even IT-EN, for the EN term she seeks...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day48 mins (2012-03-01 12:43:55 GMT)
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Jane: Glad to have put you on (what may be) the right track. We will all be interested to learn what your FR-IT enquiry comes up with!
Example sentence:
Nicolò Costanzi, che applicò alla carena quanto aveva sperimentato in anni e anni di attività: la guida di flusso, la sede d’onda, la conformazione tronca della poppa nella parte immersa.
Reference:
Note from asker:
| That's what I suspected - I found the text in English and it sounded like a poor translation - I thought perhaps from French, but it makes sense that it was from Italian. I'll try asking the question in Italian. |
Discussion
:o)
1. Why should a cruise liner be named after a footballer?
I jest - I'm on my 3rd Ardbeg here.
2. Clipper bow - yes, I saw that, and it implies that the sede d'onda is not a special invention of ol' Costanzi, who designed the Eugenio (in Asker's text) as his swan-song. She seems to have been launched in the 80s. Of course, the function of a bulbous bow is to improve wave penetration, and it might be described as a "wave seat" (though if you google "wave seat" you will find interesting sites selling chairs for lumbago sufferers).
Wot we need is some pix.
"con prora a clipper e sede d'onda,"
I don't speak Italian but I bet the above says "with a clipper bow and a (bow) bulb "
The boat in question is the former SS Oceanic, and this is what an EN website has to say about it :
S.S. OCEANIC
www.classicliners.net/SS_OCEANIC.html
History of SS OCEANIC, STARSHIP OCEANIC, Big Red Boat. ... consisted of the same cutter style bow and swan neck stem, and a bulbous bow below the waterline. .... By March of 2009, she had been made the new vessel for the Peaceboat ...
Sede = "seat" or "housing"
The punctuation of the translated texts I have seen on the Net suggests that the "sede d'onda" is a separate device, probably fitted on the bow, bulbous or not, or part of it.
I would be tempted to ask the question on a discussion forum such as http://www.boatdesign.net/forums, but I have other things to do :o)
See eg http://bit.ly/w2WJXx.
My limited knowledge of Italian tells me that "cosidetta" means "so-called", which suggests it is not an accepted technical term.