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How to hide usage of machine translation in Trados Studio 2009.
Auteur du fil: europeanPRO

Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
Royaume-Uni
Local time: 20:57
Membre (2009)
néerlandais vers anglais
+ ...
Excellent article, Paul. Nov 2, 2015

SDL Community wrote:

Angela Rimmer wrote:

Wow, Paul. I have a lot of respect for you as person, but feel you're being judgmental and jumping to a lot of conclusions in this thread. It's not like translators are all just sneaking around, manipulating things and hiding things from their clients, and they're not "always" doing it. I truly believe this is a case of not wishing to inject confusion into the mix when the client really doesn't have a good grasp on what translation quality is and how it is achieved.

....

I understand your ethical concerns but your rejection of other absolutely plausible reasons, accompanied by self-righteous lectures about maintaining good client relationships, leaves a sour taste in the mouth.


Hello Angela,

Your post has occupied my mind quite a bit this evening. I know I'm a fairly blunt and black and white guy but I hadn't considered myself self-righteous until now. Maybe I am.

However, I thought about it a bit and decided to draft an article on this topic, including some simple ways to work with MT without the AT status. I avoided any workarounds that involve editing the sdlxliff but hope they'll be helpful for anyone else faced with the same dilemma.

http://multifarious.filkin.com/2015/11/02/mt-or-not-mt/

Regards

Paul
SDL Community Support


Indeed, things aren't always black and white.

Sadly, it looks like many of us will soon be sending along all manner of ‘productivity metrics’ [barf] and other 1984-ish data (these little AT's are just the the beginning). Luckily, however, none of this really even applies to me, as I work in another CAT tool, founded on a whole different view of the life of a freelance translator, and thus don't have to deal with SDL ‘return packages’, stoopid memoQ server thingamajigs, etc., with little codes in them telling my clients exactly how I handled a particular job, and what the ‘edit distance’ [barf] was [at 2015-11-02_02:55] between my right pinky and my coffee cup, … but I find the topic interesting nonetheless.

Michael


[Edited at 2015-11-02 02:57 GMT]


 

Angela Rimmer  Identity Verified
Royaume-Uni
Local time: 20:57
allemand vers anglais
+ ...
Thank you, Paul Nov 15, 2015

SDL Community wrote:

Angela Rimmer wrote:

Wow, Paul. I have a lot of respect for you as person, but feel you're being judgmental and jumping to a lot of conclusions in this thread....


Hello Angela,

Your post has occupied my mind quite a bit this evening. I know I'm a fairly blunt and black and white guy but I hadn't considered myself self-righteous until now. Maybe I am.

However, I thought about it a bit and decided to draft an article on this topic, including some simple ways to work with MT without the AT status. I avoided any workarounds that involve editing the sdlxliff but hope they'll be helpful for anyone else faced with the same dilemma.

http://multifarious.filkin.com/2015/11/02/mt-or-not-mt/

Regards

Paul
SDL Community Support


Hi Paul,

Sorry, I didn't mean to blast at you and then disappear from the face of the earth -- I got bombarded by work and then a friend's visit and have only recently resurfaced.

First, thank you for your gracious response. I appreciate your willingness to see the other side of the coin. Just to be clear, I never wanted you to tell everybody how to work around this issue, I was just looking for some sort of recognition that wishing to work around the issue of AT/MT flags in documents did not automatically mean the translator was up to no good.

I do wish to point out that it is less about the money (as your blog post seems to suggest) and more, in my opinion, about not wishing to sour a perfectly good client relationship by giving your client cause to question your competency or intentions. Our client relationships rely heavily on trust -- they have to trust that we know what we're doing and we're good at what we do and we're not cheating them in terms of money or quality. A client who has heard of MT and doesn't understand how it can be used for good may see AT/MT in the file and start to question whether the translator is doing a proper job, whether they have been running it through something like Google translate and then just charging for that, etc. For me, at least, I might be concerned that the client would not trust me anymore, and not that the client would try to negotiate a discount.

Those are my thoughts -- but most of all I really appreciate your willingness to re-evaluate your position. That takes a very special type of person and speaks volumes of your personal integrity.


 

Huw Watkins  Identity Verified
Royaume-Uni
Local time: 20:57
Membre (2005)
italien vers anglais
+ ...
Yes spot on Angela Dec 7, 2015

Angela Rimmer wrote:


I do wish to point out that it is less about the money (as your blog post seems to suggest) and more, in my opinion, about not wishing to sour a perfectly good client relationship by giving your client cause to question your competency or intentions. Our client relationships rely heavily on trust -- they have to trust that we know what we're doing and we're good at what we do and we're not cheating them in terms of money or quality. A client who has heard of MT and doesn't understand how it can be used for good may see AT/MT in the file and start to question whether the translator is doing a proper job, whether they have been running it through something like Google translate and then just charging for that, etc. For me, at least, I might be concerned that the client would not trust me anymore, and not that the client would try to negotiate a discount.



And this:

Angela Rimmer wrote:

The biggest problems I have had in the past have been with clients who have "half-information" about CAT tools and how they work



THIS is the perennial argument here. It has NOTHING to do with trying to hide use of MT when you are contractually obliged not to, no-one is advocating this. In fact it is only you and a few others, Paul, who is suggesting we are doing this. The point is that PMs and agencies who learn just about enough about CAT tools to use to their benefit get confused about the AT status in files. I simply suggested a MORE transparent way of side stepping this problem. The changing colour of the status is not something a client of this type is not going to notice, they just aren't. The PE suggestion however says what it does on the tin so to speak - i.e. machine translation has been used and the status is now Post-Edited by a professional translator. Nothing underhand, everything 100% transparent and above board.

Lastly, suggesting the use of MT autosuggest definitely IS underhand if the client has requested no MT. Just saying...

Sorry for my late replay, I too got very busy all of a sudden and this got put on the back boiler a bit. Also thanks for posting that article Paul, I shall try to read it during my next coffee break.

Huw

[Edited at 2015-12-07 11:51 GMT]


 

Ekaterina Kroumova  Identity Verified
français vers bulgare
+ ...
My two cents Dec 7, 2015

While waiting for a solution, you can do the following:

In the target segment, Control+A and then Control+C to copy the text > Control+Insert to insert the source text - the AT sign disappears > Control+A and Control+V to paste the text back... and you can continue with your work.

It slows you for a second or two, but at least it does the trick.


 

Mihai Badea (X)  Identity Verified
Luxembourg
anglais vers roumain
+ ...
Hiding may not be good for business Dec 7, 2015

I understand the point of view of colleagues who criticise the way Studio was designed as regards the marking of machine translated segments. It can look like SDL takes good care of the agencies while forcing things on translators. On this other hand, if one knows how to use machine translation in an efficient way and without compromising on quality, I can see no reason why the client's knowing about the use of MT would create a problem in the relationship with them. In case the client asks, the... See more
I understand the point of view of colleagues who criticise the way Studio was designed as regards the marking of machine translated segments. It can look like SDL takes good care of the agencies while forcing things on translators. On this other hand, if one knows how to use machine translation in an efficient way and without compromising on quality, I can see no reason why the client's knowing about the use of MT would create a problem in the relationship with them. In case the client asks, the translator can have a carefully worded message at hand, where he/she explains honestly how machine translation helps him/her to be more efficient.

I think we sometimes need to put ourselves in a client's shoes. When a professional tries to hide his ways of working to the client, there is a high risk trust will be broken. And people will start believing the marketing exaggerations that for-profit organisations sometimes use, without even wanting to hear the explanations from the professionals. Unfortunately, SDL is among the companies that convey exaggerated claims to the public. First, there was "You'll never have to translate the same sentence again" (any translator knows this is not true for all identical sentences, and for others it is only true for a limited time; and sometimes, in order to establish whether a sentence can stay the same or not, it can take some time).

The latest marketing exaggeration from SDL is that the machine translation they provide can double productivity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxN6WV0vo00 . I know of a study that showed that, in certain conditions, a productivity increase of 25% can be obtained. To me, at the current stage of MT, 100% increase seems impossible. I'd be curious to know whether their is any independent study to support that claim.
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jyuan_us  Identity Verified
États-Unis
Local time: 15:57
Membre (2005)
anglais vers chinois
+ ...
Issue related to this is that all segments will be shown as CM Dec 20, 2015

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:

It's to delete the target translation after having confirmed all the segment and retranslate... all the AT will turn into CM...


It is normal for the agency to see the score of each and every sentence but either it is shown as AT or CM, it is not possible for the agency to see the actual score of each segment.



[Edited at 2015-12-20 13:53 GMT]


 

jyuan_us  Identity Verified
États-Unis
Local time: 15:57
Membre (2005)
anglais vers chinois
+ ...
huh? Dec 20, 2015

Ekaterina Kroumova wrote:

While waiting for a solution, you can do the following:

In the target segment, Control+A and then Control+C to copy the text > Control+Insert to insert the source text - the AT sign disappears > Control+A and Control+V to paste the text back... and you can continue with your work.

It slows you for a second or two, but at least it does the trick.


I have 2000 segments for which I want "AT" to be removed. Your suggestion does work but it will take 5 times my normal translation speed to do it that way. I use Google Translate API in order to speed up, not to slow down.


 

Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
Royaume-Uni
Local time: 20:57
Membre (2009)
néerlandais vers anglais
+ ...
Just use GT4T Dec 20, 2015

Just use GT4T, which leaves no traces. Simply select some text, press the shortcut and the selection gets automatically Google Translated and replaced.

http://gt4t.net/en/


Shouguang Cao
 

Shouguang Cao  Identity Verified
Chine
Local time: 04:57
Membre (2007)
anglais vers chinois
+ ...
Remove AT from files in batches Oct 24, 2020

You can also remove AT status from files in batches with GT4T now.

It's simple to use. Just drag your sdlxliff files and drop them to GT4T.

By the way the feature is free forever. I won't charge for such a little effort

remove AT


 

Stepan Konev  Identity Verified
Russie
Local time: 23:57
anglais vers russe
SDLXLIFF Anonymizer Oct 24, 2020

There is an app for that available at https://appstore.sdl.com/language/app/sdlxliff-anonymizer/580/

Wolfgang Schoene
 

Wolfgang Schoene  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 21:57
anglais vers allemand
+ ...
Hide usage of MT in Studio Oct 27, 2020

Stepan Konev wrote:

There is an app for that available at https://appstore.sdl.com/language/app/sdlxliff-anonymizer/580/


I for my part just type the first words of the DeepL suggestion, Studio then offers me to ENTER the MT suggestion and the segment is NOT marked AT.


Stepan Konev
 

Stepan Konev  Identity Verified
Russie
Local time: 23:57
anglais vers russe
Me either Oct 27, 2020

Wolfgang Schoene wrote:
I for my part just type the first words of the DeepL suggestion, Studio then offers me to ENTER the MT suggestion and the segment is NOT marked AT.

I use an app for that. QTranslate is for free and works with a number of MT engines and dictionaries including those in xdxf format. QTranslate just replaces any selected text with translation when I press a shortcut, so that the 'AT' status is not applied at all. Therefore, the question is moot for me. But if people ask, why not suggest them a tool.


 

Yolande Hivart
Autriche
Local time: 21:57
Membre (2016)
allemand vers français
Have the cake and eat it Oct 28, 2020

Now you wonder why the trend is increasingly into turning a translator into a post editor?

When I see posts like how do I hide that I do not own the software my client asked to own to accept the task, how do I hide that I use MT to speed up a translation because I am bored with the numbers while I would dream of being paid full for each word.

Do not wonder next time when the client preprocess it into MT and ask you to do post editing because it is what you are doing to
... See more
Now you wonder why the trend is increasingly into turning a translator into a post editor?

When I see posts like how do I hide that I do not own the software my client asked to own to accept the task, how do I hide that I use MT to speed up a translation because I am bored with the numbers while I would dream of being paid full for each word.

Do not wonder next time when the client preprocess it into MT and ask you to do post editing because it is what you are doing to spend time while claiming to be a translator.

Even if I were doing this, I would not dream of asking this in a forum where i would then have later to convince my client to be a translator caring about what is being written.

In the end I prefer post editing by the hour than having to fill the gaps out of a TM filled with MT content and claiming it to be a genuine translation.
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Stepan Konev  Identity Verified
Russie
Local time: 23:57
anglais vers russe
Different understanding of MT Oct 28, 2020

Yolande Hivart wrote:
In the end I prefer post editing

So you don't accept MT as a translator's tool but you accept PEMT tasks? It sounds weird to me. I can paste MT myself. Why should I accept such tasks for a reduced rate that I could do myself? I don't.
MT is just a tool. Like all other tools, you have to know how to use it in a professional way. If you don't use a hummer correctly, most probably you will get hurt. The same applies to MT. If you can't use it, it will harm you for sure. Then why should I avoid using a helping tool provided that I know how to do it safely? I don't use MT when I am directly instructed by client to refrain from using it. And they can easily vet it. However, some clients do not care how I deliver the result and what tools. Some of them even asked me what MT I prefer (either Google or DeepL or else). Furthermore, there are still some translators who believe CAT tools have something to do with MT. This is called just a different level of proficiency and a different approach.
Your PC, mouse, keyboard, and monitor are all tools. You don't hide the fact that you use them, do you. To summarize the above: if you can use MT in a professional way, you benefit from using it to the benefit of your client too; if you cannot use MT in a professional way, clients do it for you and you accept PEMT tasks. That's it.


Roy Oestensen
Kaspars Melkis
 

Roy Oestensen  Identity Verified
Norvège
Local time: 21:57
Membre (2010)
anglais vers Norvégien (Bokmål)
+ ...
Yes, machine translation is just another tool in the arsenal of the translator Oct 28, 2020

Stepan Konev wrote:

Yolande Hivart wrote:
In the end I prefer post editing

So you don't accept MT as a translator's tool but you accept PEMT tasks? … To summarize the above: if you can use MT in a professional way, you benefit from using it to the benefit of your client too; if you cannot use MT in a professional way, clients do it for you and you accept PEMT tasks. That's it.


I see a couple of problems with machine translation, though, and that is that it is very easy not to spot unidiomatic expressions which you otherwise would not use when you translate the normal way.

For that reason machine translation needs extra care and very often a rewrite. Personally I, therefore, find machine translation does not increase my translation speed as much as the agencies want me to believe. So if I accept a post editing task, I say from the outset that they have to pay the same rate as if this was a normal translation.

Except for that I don't see the big difference between unwetted machine translations from pretranslations based in wetted translations that are already in my translation memory.

That said, I see the point in hiding the use of machine translation, since the PM then might get the idea that I have saved a lot of time in the translation process (that I in actual fact have not) so that the agency deserves a large reduction in the rate - from 30 to 70 %, apparently, which to me is preposterous.

But to sum up: I find that machine translation must be used with care to ensure that the translation is flowing naturally. For that reason I do not accept a reduction in rates.


Stepan Konev
 
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How to hide usage of machine translation in Trados Studio 2009.

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