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No concurre en el presente supuesto de Peligro en la demora
Volante de Segunda
Jun 10, 2008 17:21
15 yrs ago
2 viewers *
Spanish term

tocar fondo

Spanish to English Art/Literary Archaeology Mexico
El asentamiento alcanzó un clímax demográfico entre los años 550 y 650, a mediados del Clásico, y hacia la mitad del siglo VIII entró en un proceso de abandono progresivo que tocó fondo en el Postclásico tardío.

I have this but it veers too far from the original. I need to keep the nearly same number of words with spaces as the original, so something not too wordy would be appreciated:

The city reached its demographic peak between 550 and 650, in the middle of the Classic. Toward the end of the eighth century, it began to be abandoned until by the late post-Classic, it was entirely depopulated.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +5 reaching its lowest point
4 +2 reached its bottom/lowest
5 reached rock bottom
4 hit bottom

Discussion

Margaret Schroeder Jun 10, 2008:
...if you insist [hangs head and blushes shyly]
Patricia Rosas (asker) Jun 10, 2008:
Thank you, again, Margaret (and Teju), for the help and excellent ideas! I've plugged in your answer and in terms of length, it works, so why don't you post it as an answer? Your phrasing is much smoother than mine was...
Margaret Schroeder Jun 10, 2008:
Patricia, in my suggested version, "decline" instead of "decrease".
teju Jun 10, 2008:
GoodWords, if your version was one of the answers given, I'd give you an agree!
Margaret Schroeder Jun 10, 2008:
My version so far: The city reached its demographic peak between 550 and 650, in the middle of the Classic. The population began to decrease in the mid-eighth century, reaching its lowest point in the late post-Classic period.
Margaret Schroeder Jun 10, 2008:
...and thus is less ambiguous but more limiting than the original.
Margaret Schroeder Jun 10, 2008:
No less ambiguous than "tocar fondo", I think. Actually, it seems to me that "tocar fondo" can mean either zero or a minimum non-zero population, but "lowest point," while it doesn't exclude zero, doesn't suggest it, ..
teju Jun 10, 2008:
GoodWords: I see your point. I don't think it means "hit zero", I think it means it was substantially lower. What I'm saying is that "hit its lowest point" could be ambiguous. Does that make sense?
Margaret Schroeder Jun 10, 2008:
Teju, couldn't "tocar fondo" mean exactly "hit its lowest point"? Or does it necessarily mean "hit zero"?
teju Jun 10, 2008:
As far as saying "hit its lowest point", be careful, a city of 2 million could change to 1 million, and that would be its lowest point.
Patricia Rosas (asker) Jun 10, 2008:
Karla: Thank you for catching that! Yikes. Actually, Classic (and all the others) are mentioned so frequently, that it works to drop "period" every so often. Your help is much appreciated! ¡Saludos a todos!
Patricia Rosas (asker) Jun 10, 2008:
FWIW the text goes on to say: Tal descripción [a very vague one], en una zona casi despoblada y sin mapas con detalle suficiente, dejó en el olvido a Dzibanché hasta la década de 1970, ...

Its a book being sold at the site museum and in a few other places. It is filled with wonderful images, and that's why the text needs to be the same size, so that the typesetter can fill in around the images (it's going into French, and maybe German, too).
Margaret Schroeder Jun 10, 2008:
...or a photo caption in a brochure or book? Either way, I think an expression with "bottom" might be too informal.
K Donnelly Jun 10, 2008:
Hi Patricia - I just wanted to mention couple of possible mistakes -- it should read "the middle of the eighth century", and usually periods are written as "Classic Period" and rather than just Classic. Hope this helps. Karla
Margaret Schroeder Jun 10, 2008:
I like best your modification that allows "reached its lowest point" to be used. "Hit bottom" or "bottomed out" may be too informal for a museum (since you mention the space limitation, can we assume this is for a label in a museum?)
Patricia Rosas (asker) Jun 10, 2008:
Goodwords: That's precisely why I posted this. I'm not at all sure that it was ever completed depopulated. And for Teju: the version I've got is exactly the same number of words-and-spaces as the original. Otherwise, I'd definitely go for the terser version, but the publisher needs me to be just as wordy as the original! Thanks to you both ...
teju Jun 10, 2008:
Good point, GoodWords!
Patricia Rosas (asker) Jun 10, 2008:
Thanks, Sandra. I was groping for "hit bottom" and couldn't come up with it. Karissa's answer seems to work with a tiny modification to my original: The city WAS AT its demographic peak ... post-Classic, it reached its lowest point." But an option might be "its population bottomed out." Hmmm... always so many possibilities!!
teju Jun 10, 2008:
Estoy de acuerdo de que está claro tal como lo tienes. Una pequeña sugerencia, al final, podrías poner: "it began to be abandoned until it was depopulated in the late post-Classic period". Si no tienes mucho espacio, no hay necesidad de agregar más. :)
Margaret Schroeder Jun 10, 2008:
Can you confirm that it *was* entirely depopulated by the late post-Classic, or did it just reach a minimum (but non-zero) in population?
Sandra Rodriguez Jun 10, 2008:
Patricia: me parece muy claro como lo tienes. Incorporar "hit bottom" o algo por el estilo, alarga sin necesidad.

Proposed translations

+5
1 hr
Selected

reaching its lowest point

The city reached its demographic peak between 550 and 650, in the middle of the Classic. The population began to decline in the mid-eighth century, reaching its lowest point in the late post-Classic period.

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Note added at 3 hrs (2008-06-10 20:34:17 GMT)
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Maybe some adjustment to avoid repetition, since as it stands, two clauses start in a very similar way: [Subject] [reach] its [adjective] point/peak [...]

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Note added at 5 hrs (2008-06-10 22:45:46 GMT)
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Reply: I think that the "mid/midst/middle" repetition will be felt less than the one I mentioned, and your suggested change would be fine, too.
Note from asker:
Yes, we insist. Thank you again!
How about: The city was at its demographic peak between 550 and 650, in the midst of the Classic period. Beginning in the mid-eighth century, the population began to decline, reaching its lowest point in the late post-Classic period. The problem now may be the proximity of "midst of the Classic" and "mid-eighth century," but with space constraints and because the original is almost outline-like, it's hard to get a flow going ...
Peer comment(s):
agree teju : I like decline better than decrease. Well done!
2 mins
agree Chris Bruton
4 mins
agree Jorge Altamirano
30 mins
agree Joseph Tein : I like this.
1 hr
agree Michele Fauble
3 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks to everyone for the extensive help in figuring this one out. Points to GoodWords!"
+2
5 mins

reached its bottom/lowest

Ihope this helps
Peer comment(s):
agree Carlos Ordaz : de acuerdo, el original no sugiere que el asentamiento haya sido totalmente despoblado
3 mins
Gracias!
agree margaret caulfield
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
12 mins

reached rock bottom

a more idiomatic way of saying it.
Something went wrong...
13 mins

hit bottom

..

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Note added at 24 mins (2008-06-10 17:45:28 GMT)
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or

bottomed out

http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:SmsRQREJBo4J:www.thefre...
Something went wrong...
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