https://fra.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/poetry-literature/4273924-d%C3%A9pouill%C3%A9-du-m%C3%AAme-souffle-de-mot.html?paging=y
Mar 14, 2011 20:30
14 yrs ago
français term

dépouillé du même souffle de mot

français vers anglais Art / Littérature Poésie et littérature
This comes from a description of a staged version of La Fontaine's Fables. The whole sentence reads as follows:

"Les Fables, c'est plonger dans un univers baroque et dépouillé du même souffle de mot, c'est visiter de drôles de bêtes déguisées en hommes ou de drôles d'hommes déguisés en bêtes."

I have read and reread this sentence so many times that I can't see it anymore! I feel that "dépouillé du même souffle de mot" must refer to a paring down of language (stripped bare of language...or something) but in my head this is the exact opposite of the Baroque spirit also referred to in the same sentence.

I would be grateful for any ideas/suggestions :)

Discussion

Jocelyne Cuenin Mar 15, 2011:
Jeu de mots ? http://softbb.org/fr/434796.aspx
Traduction vers le francais (à partir de quelle langue ?) d'un jeu à télécharger : "2. Souffle de mot : Choisir et commuter les lettres pour former autant de mots comme vous pouvez avant que le temporisateur s'épuise." = faire autant de mots que possible avec certaines lettres dans un temps imparti. (On secoue tout et on recommence)
Aussi comme Matthew dit : dans un souffle : in the same breath.
Lire un texte par groupe de souffle et/ou de sens, c'est ce qu'on demande à faire à des élèves.
Ou encore: "Accordons que la lecture de cet ensemble complexe doit procéder d’une approche systémique, soit « liberté‐égalité‐fraternité » en un seul souffle de mot. Et non pas comme on le lit ordinairement liberté, puis égalité, puis enfin ..." So, I can imagine sth like Matthew and Ann: wierd & stripped to the minimum (LF puts the same animals/humans in one big bag, shakes it, and writes a new fable) at the same time. I struggled a lot with this, it didn't make much sense to me either. Souffle de mot est en tout cas très poétique en francais et se trouve en rubrique chez Amazone en tant que souffle des mots pour tout les mots oubliés, délicieux etc.
philgoddard Mar 14, 2011:
As you suggested, I think it means that they're both baroque and spare - perhaps baroque in the manner of their telling, and spare in the simplicity of their message. But I'm not sure.
laenai (asker) Mar 14, 2011:
Good idea but I don't see how that would fit in with "dépouillé".
philgoddard Mar 14, 2011:
Could it mean "in the same breath", ie at one and the same time?
philgoddard Mar 14, 2011:
"Souffle de mot" gets a lot of Google hits (many of them relating to the text you're translating), but I can't put my finger on its exact meaning.

Proposed translations

+1
1 jour 17 heures
Selected

both baroque and bare at the same time / in the same breath

I think the writer is establishing the contrast between baroque and dépouillé

Hope my answer is not too late for you - I only just signed up today!

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Note added at 2 days13 hrs (2011-03-17 09:58:24 GMT)
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You could also say 'a universe that is both baroque and stripped bare in the same breath' if you want to keep the sense of 'stripped' in the translation
Peer comment(s):

agree guest1234 (X) : contraste et même complémentarité que vient renforcer l'image des hommes et des bêtes qui se déguisent en l'autre
3 heures
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you to everyone who invested time into helping me resolve this. I like the simplicity of this answer even if it expresses the same ideas as most other people. So thank you all!"
1 heure

stripped by the same breath of the word

My understanding is that the richness of language leaves the universe of "The Fables" bare, exposed, for those who can read behind the colourfulness of the words. I selected a link, maybe you want to have a look there, then click on "ne pas souffler mot", you might get few ideas there. Good luck!
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2 heures

stripped even of the/of the very breath words hang on

There are at least two options, hinging on the meaning of même here. Is it "the same" or "the very". I tend to think it's "the very".

So while "baroque" (outrageous in terms of characters and events), the fables are short and sweet when it comes to words. If "short and sweet" is what is meant, I feel the French is somewhat OTT, but I've tried to reflect that OTT-ness in my proposal above.

Otherwise, to inject some Anglo-Saxon practicality into things, something like "The Fables evoke the baroquest of worlds in paradoxically few words" might do the trick.
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13 heures

[spare] through the same verbal inspiration

I have been wrangling over this one for a bit, and like Matthew, I think that dépouillé is associated with "univers" and the following clause is separate. It gives quite a different sense of the sentence. "Souffle" can also mean "inspiration", usually in the creative sense. So this could give something along the lines of "The Fables involve plunging into a world made Baroque and sparse by the same verbal inspiration,... " The second half of the sentence also suggests that the fables contain other oppositional elements. It's a bit of a leap in interpretation from what immediately seems to be the reading, but to me it makes more sense.
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18 heures

2 possibilities: [in the same utterance of the word] OR [at the same time]

Hello,

I don't think that "dépouillé" is directly connected to the expression "du même souffle de mot", which seems to be modifying "plonger". Yes, "de" usually follows "dépouillé", but it's not be read that way here.

du même souffle de mot = in the same breath of word = in the same utterance (natural English), referring to the world "fables".

All that said, I could also possibly understand this to mean "at the same time", but then that would make the punctuation incorrect in the original French sentence. It would have to read like this: Les Fables, c'est plonger dans un univers baroque et dépouillé, ET du même souffle de mot, c'est visiter...

So the two possibilities are:

1) Fables, is to plunge into a world that is both baroque and bare in the same utterance of the word

2 Fables, is to plunge into a world that is both baroque and bare, and at the same time, it is a visit with bizarre...

My final point I would like to make, is that "dépouillé", imho, is not directly related to "du même souffle de mot". It's either modifying "plonger" (first part of sentence), or or it's directly connected to the "c'est visiter..." (second part of the sentence).
At any rate, I think that you need to stop connecting the "du" with "dépouillé" (just "univers baroque et dépouillé).


I hope this all helps.

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Note added at 1 day37 mins (2011-03-15 21:08:06 GMT)
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In fact, it would be best to say this way in English (if it means "in the same utterance of the word" (I don't think the French is very well-written, but...)

Fables, in the same utterance of the word, is to enter into a world both baroque and bare; it also brings us to visit bizarre...
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