Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Jun 20, 2016 11:16
7 yrs ago
français term
états
français vers anglais
Art / Littérature
Art, artisanat et peinture
description of Pissarro\'s technique
Context is prints (engravings, etchings, etc.) and printmaking through the ages.
Camille Pissarro est l’artiste impressionniste le plus attaché à l’estampe. Ces oeuvres montrent une recherche constante de la lumière. Son apparente facilité d’expression cache un exigeant travail de dessin et de tirage que les nombreux **états** confirment.
I get the feeling this is something like "draft versions". I did find the word "state" used on the Tate Modern site ("sixth and final state" of some work or other) but this text is intended for a broad general public.
Camille Pissarro est l’artiste impressionniste le plus attaché à l’estampe. Ces oeuvres montrent une recherche constante de la lumière. Son apparente facilité d’expression cache un exigeant travail de dessin et de tirage que les nombreux **états** confirment.
I get the feeling this is something like "draft versions". I did find the word "state" used on the Tate Modern site ("sixth and final state" of some work or other) but this text is intended for a broad general public.
Proposed translations
(anglais)
| 4 +6 | state |
philgoddard
|
| 5 | trial proofs |
B D Finch
|
| 4 | prototypes; unfinished articles |
Andrew Bramhall
|
| 3 +1 | stages |
Lisa Jane
|
| 3 | artist's prooves |
Raoul COLIN (X)
|
Proposed translations
+6
1 heure
philgoddard
États-Unis
États-Unis
Native in anglais
Specializes in field
États-Unis
Six languages into flawless English
Native in: anglais
Works in: allemand vers anglais, français vers anglais, espagnol vers anglais, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
61
français term (edited):
état
Selected
state
This is the correct technical term. If you think your readers won't understand it, you could add a word or two of explanation in brackets, such as "forms" or "versions".
"In printmaking, a state is a different form of a print, caused by a deliberate and permanent change to a matrix such as a copper plate (for engravings etc.) or woodblock (for woodcut)."
"In printmaking, a state is a different form of a print, caused by a deliberate and permanent change to a matrix such as a copper plate (for engravings etc.) or woodblock (for woodcut)."
Note from asker:
| yes, I'd just come to the same conclusion myself! |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
James A. Walsh
39 minutes
|
| agree |
Debora Blake
3 heures
|
| agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
4 heures
|
| agree |
Helen Shiner
5 heures
|
| agree |
Laurette Tassin
17 heures
|
| agree |
Jean-Claude Gouin
23 heures
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "It's clear from checking out glossaries of printmaking terms that artist's proof, trial proof and state and different things, so "state" it is plus a brief explanation. Thanks, everyone."
7 minutes
Andrew Bramhall
Royaume-Uni
Royaume-Uni
Native in anglais
Royaume-Uni
Flair and accuracy tailored to your text
Native in: anglais 
Works in: espagnol vers anglais, allemand vers anglais
prototypes; unfinished articles
Yes, ' draft versions' in need of further development or refining/ retouching.
+1
20 minutes
stages
could it mean the various phases, stages of the painting as his technique was often to layer the oil colour in several stages (see example of different stages here in one artist's interpretation of his technique https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7-tIW7w5GU:
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Note added at 28 mins (2016-06-20 11:44:45 GMT)
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http://www.moma.org/explore/conservation/cezannepissarro/set...
Setting the scene
Cézanne and Pissarro clearly render similar scenes, or even the same scene, with quite different senses of essential harmony. There also are times when they very clearly diverge in their handling of paint. In their use of underdrawing, one of the earliest stages of a painting, another fundamental difference can be observed. While this exhibition does not include any examples of Pissaro’s use of underdrawing, in 1881 we see Cézanne employing it a great deal. The extensive use of underdrawing in these particular paintings indicates that Cézanne is thinking about how best to start a painting; how all-embracing his notes need to be, as it were.
Detecting underdrawing can be done in several different ways. Sometimes it can be seen directly underneath thin washes of color. Other times, in more thickly painted works, it can be seen peeking out from under skips in the upper layers of paint. Finally it can sometimes be seen with an infrared sensitive camera. Infrared cameras take advantage of the fact that many paints are comparatively transparent or reflective of the infrared part of the spectrum. This is in contrast to typical drawing materials that absorb these same wavelengths. An infrared image will then show the underdrawing as dark lines beneath the painted layer.
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Note added at 30 mins (2016-06-20 11:46:58 GMT)
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stages can refer to any artwork
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Note added at 37 mins (2016-06-20 11:53:31 GMT)
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after having looked into his techniques it seems that STATE is the word used to say what is in effect a STAGE of the process see example here
https://books.google.it/books?id=NZt2oj5S-wQC&pg=PA243&lpg=P...
So you could use stage if you prefer it to state (as, I have just seen, another colleague has suggested in the discussion)
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Note added at 1 hr (2016-06-20 12:41:18 GMT)
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if you read the text in the link provided (here referring to the etchings of Cassatt) it says clearly at the foot of page 239 "Preliminary states (stages in the development of the print) were enjoyed and cherished."
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 28 mins (2016-06-20 11:44:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.moma.org/explore/conservation/cezannepissarro/set...
Setting the scene
Cézanne and Pissarro clearly render similar scenes, or even the same scene, with quite different senses of essential harmony. There also are times when they very clearly diverge in their handling of paint. In their use of underdrawing, one of the earliest stages of a painting, another fundamental difference can be observed. While this exhibition does not include any examples of Pissaro’s use of underdrawing, in 1881 we see Cézanne employing it a great deal. The extensive use of underdrawing in these particular paintings indicates that Cézanne is thinking about how best to start a painting; how all-embracing his notes need to be, as it were.
Detecting underdrawing can be done in several different ways. Sometimes it can be seen directly underneath thin washes of color. Other times, in more thickly painted works, it can be seen peeking out from under skips in the upper layers of paint. Finally it can sometimes be seen with an infrared sensitive camera. Infrared cameras take advantage of the fact that many paints are comparatively transparent or reflective of the infrared part of the spectrum. This is in contrast to typical drawing materials that absorb these same wavelengths. An infrared image will then show the underdrawing as dark lines beneath the painted layer.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 30 mins (2016-06-20 11:46:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
stages can refer to any artwork
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 37 mins (2016-06-20 11:53:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
after having looked into his techniques it seems that STATE is the word used to say what is in effect a STAGE of the process see example here
https://books.google.it/books?id=NZt2oj5S-wQC&pg=PA243&lpg=P...
So you could use stage if you prefer it to state (as, I have just seen, another colleague has suggested in the discussion)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2016-06-20 12:41:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
if you read the text in the link provided (here referring to the etchings of Cassatt) it says clearly at the foot of page 239 "Preliminary states (stages in the development of the print) were enjoyed and cherished."
Note from asker:
| this is about his prints - not oil paintings |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Andrew Bramhall
: Wouldn't the writer have said ' étapes' if this was what's meant?
4 minutes
|
|
he could have-they are similar concepts
|
|
| neutral |
philgoddard
: It's not about painting.
1 heure
|
|
yes I now know that and if you had read my whole answer you would have seen my later comments
|
|
| agree |
David Vaughn
: "Preliminary states (stages in the development of the print)"
8 heures
|
|
Thanks David
|
20 minutes
artist's prooves
this is about etching
This wikipedia is about this step in producing an etching wiht the artist checking how his/her works will appear
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Note added at 28 mins (2016-06-20 11:44:30 GMT)
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thanks for the correction.
The article is in English
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Note added at 9 hrs (2016-06-20 20:57:26 GMT)
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Am arrtist realised a drawing and gives it to the etcher to be turned into an engraving. As well knows, this process is no photography.
So the etcher presents his firs realisation or artist's proof to the artist who might not agree with what he sees. Then following the artist's comments the etcher goes back to workd with acid and his set of chisels and puches to modify the copper plate.Then he présents a new proof to the artist. And so back and forth and that could last quite a while. Rembrandt and as I learnt it recenetly Turner were quite exacting and with them that lasted for month on end.
This wikipedia is about this step in producing an etching wiht the artist checking how his/her works will appear
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 28 mins (2016-06-20 11:44:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
thanks for the correction.
The article is in English
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2016-06-20 20:57:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Am arrtist realised a drawing and gives it to the etcher to be turned into an engraving. As well knows, this process is no photography.
So the etcher presents his firs realisation or artist's proof to the artist who might not agree with what he sees. Then following the artist's comments the etcher goes back to workd with acid and his set of chisels and puches to modify the copper plate.Then he présents a new proof to the artist. And so back and forth and that could last quite a while. Rembrandt and as I learnt it recenetly Turner were quite exacting and with them that lasted for month on end.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Andrew Bramhall
: ' prooves' isn't the plural of ' proof'; it's 'proofs'. ' Prooves' doesn't exist!
3 minutes
|
22 heures
trial proofs
http://www.progressiveart.com/art_terms.shtml
"Trial Proof - Pre-cursor to a limited edition series, these initial prints are pulled so that the artist may examine, refine and perfect the prints to the desired final state. Trial proofs are generally not signed."
"Trial Proof - Pre-cursor to a limited edition series, these initial prints are pulled so that the artist may examine, refine and perfect the prints to the desired final state. Trial proofs are generally not signed."
Discussion
I doubt Pissarro would agree.
My understanding is that he wasn't interested in creating Warhol-style variations, all equal in his esteem, but rather that he kept improving until he was satisfied with the final state. Just as painters always do.
In print making, the technical word état is not without ambiguity. It refers not only to an individual etching that is altered, but also when several colors (or shades) are used, to each of the final plates for each individual color. Pissarro worked with color as well as monochrome, so specifying that these are "stages" in the development of an individual plate – while obvious to the expert from the context – is not overkill for the technical vocabulary in itself.
Obviously for the non expert reader, "state" is ambiguous.