Learning from Translation Mistakes
Thread poster: Jeff Whittaker
Jeff Whittaker
Jeff Whittaker  Identity Verified
United States
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Spanish to English
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Dec 22, 2017

http://claudepiron.free.fr/articlesenanglais/translation.htm

 
neilmac
neilmac
Spain
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Very interesting Dec 23, 2017

Thanks for sharing.

 
Daniel Frisano
Daniel Frisano  Identity Verified
Italy
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English to Italian
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Prophecy? Dec 23, 2017

Very interesting in retrospective. In his conclusion, the author says:

"A translator (...) has to make a lot of phone calls, to go from one library to another (...). I do hope that computers will free the poor slaves from those unrewarding tasks (...)."


I still remember those prehistorical times with phone calls and libraries. Computers did save us from those tasks by flooding us with tons of information from which we can now pick our options. We just need to remind ourselves that just because something shows up in Google, it isn't necessarily correct.


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
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Italian to English
Potentially interesting Dec 23, 2017

The article was potentially interesting but so badly written that I gave up in disgust. I think the sentence that finished me off was

"When you become a professional translator, the chief development that occurs in you during your first three or four years consists in becoming aware of problems that you had no idea could exist."

Ugh.

[Edited at 2017-12-23 16:12 GMT]


 
Mario Chavez (X)
Mario Chavez (X)  Identity Verified
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Unknown unknowns Dec 23, 2017

Tom in London wrote:

The article was potentially interesting but so badly written that I gave up in disgust. I think the sentence that finished me off was

"When you become a professional translator, the chief development that occurs in you during your first three or four years consists in becoming aware of problems that you had no idea could exist."

Ugh.

[Edited at 2017-12-23 16:12 GMT]


That phrase brings to mind Rumsfeld's clunky statement about known unknowns and unknown unknowns.



 
Kay Denney
Kay Denney  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 14:29
French to English
yes Dec 23, 2017

Daniel Frisano wrote:

Very interesting in retrospective. In his conclusion, the author says:

"A translator (...) has to make a lot of phone calls, to go from one library to another (...). I do hope that computers will free the poor slaves from those unrewarding tasks (...)."


I still remember those prehistorical times with phone calls and libraries. Computers did save us from those tasks by flooding us with tons of information from which we can now pick our options. We just need to remind ourselves that just because something shows up in Google, it isn't necessarily correct.

That paragraph reminded me of the time I went traipsing over Paris to a library containing a set of specialist dictionaries for music. Then the friend who I shared the music translations with decided to buy those dictionaries. It must have cost him a fortune, there were at least twenty volumes.
Also, pre e-mail, we would have to deliver in person or have the courier come pick up a floppy disk with the translation on it. Once I was just sitting in my neighbour's yard looking out for the courier, who rode straight past me and didn't notice my frantic waving in his rear-view mirror. So much easier now with e-mail!


 
Joohee Kim
Joohee Kim  Identity Verified
South Korea
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Thank you for sharing! Dec 23, 2017

Maybe the author is not a native English speaker. Anyway, that is worth reading! Thank you for sharing!

 
Jeff Whittaker
Jeff Whittaker  Identity Verified
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TOPIC STARTER
I think he is not a native English speaker Dec 23, 2017

On the bright side, at least you didn't break Skitt's Law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry's_law

Tom in London wrote:

The article was potentially interesting but so badly written that I gave up in disgust. I think the sentence that finished me off was

"When you become a professional translator, the chief development that occurs in you during your first three or four years consists in becoming aware of problems that you had no idea could exist."

Ugh.

[Edited at 2017-12-23 16:12 GMT]


[Edited at 2017-12-23 17:57 GMT]


 
Maxi Schwarz
Maxi Schwarz  Identity Verified
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German to English
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I have a problem with the title Dec 23, 2017

The article discusses many aspects of translation, which all actual translators will be aware of. It has nothing at all to do with "learning from translation mistakes". (Actually, a properly trained translator, even a new one, would not need to "learn" from such mistakes which he wouldn't make in the first place.) The "learning from translation mistakes" is simply one thing that is briefly mentioned in the article. It's probably due to journalistic conventions, where some "interesting, not ... See more
The article discusses many aspects of translation, which all actual translators will be aware of. It has nothing at all to do with "learning from translation mistakes". (Actually, a properly trained translator, even a new one, would not need to "learn" from such mistakes which he wouldn't make in the first place.) The "learning from translation mistakes" is simply one thing that is briefly mentioned in the article. It's probably due to journalistic conventions, where some "interesting, not that relative thing in the article that will pull in readers because of its popular connotations" is chosen as title. I have personally disliked this trend for a long time. I want the title to tell me what the topic is about. When it isn't, I'll waste my time searching the article for the announced "main idea" which isn't there. It's a pet peeve.

I'm not bothered by the quality of the English. The writer / speaker seems to have French as a first language and I think is an English to French translator.
Collapse


 
Wilsonn Perez Reyes
Wilsonn Perez Reyes  Identity Verified
El Salvador
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English to Spanish
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What's wrong with not being a native English speaker? Dec 23, 2017

Joohee Kim wrote:

Maybe the author is not a native English speaker. Anyway, that is worth reading! Thank you for sharing!


At least the idea was conveyed somewhat successfully. Nothing wrong with not being a native English speaker.


 
Jeff Whittaker
Jeff Whittaker  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:29
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER
I think that... Dec 23, 2017

I think that Joohee was responding to a previous comment stating the article was difficult to read due to grammar errors.

At any rate, we are all focused on the wrong thing.

Wilsonn Perez Reyes wrote:

Joohee Kim wrote:

Maybe the author is not a native English speaker. Anyway, that is worth reading! Thank you for sharing!


At least the idea was conveyed somewhat successfully. Nothing wrong with not being a native English speaker.


 
Jeff Whittaker
Jeff Whittaker  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:29
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I think that... Dec 23, 2017

I think that the title does not refer to translation mistakes made by humans, but potential/actual mistakes made by machine translation. The idea being that a human being would not make the mistakes described, but a computer could not help but make them.

Maxi Schwarz wrote:

The article discusses many aspects of translation, which all actual translators will be aware of. It has nothing at all to do with "learning from translation mistakes". (Actually, a properly trained translator, even a new one, would not need to "learn" from such mistakes which he wouldn't make in the first place.) The "learning from translation mistakes" is simply one thing that is briefly mentioned in the article. It's probably due to journalistic conventions, where some "interesting, not that relative thing in the article that will pull in readers because of its popular connotations" is chosen as title. I have personally disliked this trend for a long time. I want the title to tell me what the topic is about. When it isn't, I'll waste my time searching the article for the announced "main idea" which isn't there. It's a pet peeve.

I'm not bothered by the quality of the English. The writer / speaker seems to have French as a first language and I think is an English to French translator.


 
neilmac
neilmac
Spain
Local time: 14:29
Spanish to English
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Non-native author Dec 24, 2017

I assumed the author was a native French speaker. While not Shakespeare, at least it was intelligible and I thought some cogent points were made.

 
Daryo
Daryo
United Kingdom
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Serbian to English
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What's wrong with it? Dec 27, 2017

Tom in London wrote:

The article was potentially interesting but so badly written that I gave up in disgust. I think the sentence that finished me off was

"When you become a professional translator, the chief development that occurs in you during your first three or four years consists in becoming aware of problems that you had no idea could exist."

Ugh.

[Edited at 2017-12-23 16:12 GMT]


Apart from the fact that this sentence requires an attention span stretching beyond a single digit number of words [at least with professional translators, that shouldn't be a rare commodity ...], what's wrong with it?

And no, I'm not defending someone just because he also speaks French - [says "Claude Piron" at the top of the web page - hiding in plain sight ...]

Back to the substance of this article:

from the title I would have expected an article about learning from your own (or preferably from other people's) mistakes - everyone makes mistakes, more or less often, but what makes the big difference is whether you learn anything from them or you keep repeating them (mon dada favori - the methodology of translating).

I can only agree with this article, except the part about "modesty [lack of ...]" getting in the way when you know the subject matter. I would more call that "mental blindness / lack of open-mindedness" - just because you know the subject matter inside-out doesn't absolve you from paying attention to the exact meaning/wording of the specific ST you are translating.

Overall an interesting article, worth reading.


 


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