Setting to only auto-propagate exact matches including numbers?
Thread poster: Nicholas Knutsen
Nicholas Knutsen
Nicholas Knutsen
Norway
Local time: 17:54
Sep 7, 2019

I have many segments that I translate like this:

(A) 1 out of 5 = 1 gang av 5
(B) 2 out of 5 = 2 ganger av 5
(C) 3 out of 5 = 3 ganger av 5

The word "ganger" is plural. The problem is that when I confirm (A), Trados auto-propagates all (B) and (C) segments to "gang", which is wrong. If I then correct (B) and confirm it, (A) changes to "ganger". I do want to auto-propagate, but only to the segments that match exactly. Ideally I'd want to auto-propagate (B) to
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I have many segments that I translate like this:

(A) 1 out of 5 = 1 gang av 5
(B) 2 out of 5 = 2 ganger av 5
(C) 3 out of 5 = 3 ganger av 5

The word "ganger" is plural. The problem is that when I confirm (A), Trados auto-propagates all (B) and (C) segments to "gang", which is wrong. If I then correct (B) and confirm it, (A) changes to "ganger". I do want to auto-propagate, but only to the segments that match exactly. Ideally I'd want to auto-propagate (B) to all segments that don't have "1", like (C) etc. There should be a setting for Trados to differentiate between segments with the number "1" and any other number. But is there at least a segment to make Trados only auto-propagate to exact matches?
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Roy Oestensen
 
Stepan Konev
Stepan Konev  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 19:54
English to Russian
Disable Numbers in Recognize Sep 7, 2019

Hi Nicholas,
I don't think this is possible at all. In Russian, there even more forms for different numerals:
1 буква (1 letter)
2, 3, 4 буквы (2, 3, 4 letters)
5, 6...20 букв_ (5, 6...20 letters)
21 буква (21 letters)
22, 23, 24 буквы (22, 23, 24 letters)
25, 26...30 букв_ (25, 26...30 letters)
etc.
I guess some other languages may behave the same [illogical as seen by other language sp
... See more
Hi Nicholas,
I don't think this is possible at all. In Russian, there even more forms for different numerals:
1 буква (1 letter)
2, 3, 4 буквы (2, 3, 4 letters)
5, 6...20 букв_ (5, 6...20 letters)
21 буква (21 letters)
22, 23, 24 буквы (22, 23, 24 letters)
25, 26...30 букв_ (25, 26...30 letters)
etc.
I guess some other languages may behave the same [illogical as seen by other language speakers] way.

To prevent auto-propagation, you can instruct Trados not to recognize numbers. For this effect go to:
Project settings > Language pairs > All language pairs > Translation memory and automated translation > Select your enabled TM > Settings > Fields and settings > Uncheck the 'Numbers' box in the 'Recognize' section.

Remember to do the same steps for other TM(s) if you have more than one TM enabled.
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Nicholas Knutsen
Nicholas Knutsen
Norway
Local time: 17:54
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks, but the suggestion didn't work Sep 7, 2019

Thanks. Preventing auto-propagation where only the numbers differ is indeed what I wanted to do. I followed your suggestion, even re-indexing the TM afterwards as it told me to, but to no avail. The exact same problem persists.

EDIT: In fact, it's not clear whether these settings (Translation memory and automated translation) only apply to the automatic translation that Trados does during preparation, or if they also apply to auto-propagation. It seems they do NOT apply to auto-prop
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Thanks. Preventing auto-propagation where only the numbers differ is indeed what I wanted to do. I followed your suggestion, even re-indexing the TM afterwards as it told me to, but to no avail. The exact same problem persists.

EDIT: In fact, it's not clear whether these settings (Translation memory and automated translation) only apply to the automatic translation that Trados does during preparation, or if they also apply to auto-propagation. It seems they do NOT apply to auto-propagation.

The online help does not mention auto-propagation, but as I said it's not very clear.

[Edited at 2019-09-07 21:20 GMT]
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Stepan Konev
Stepan Konev  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 19:54
English to Russian
Did you re-import your document? Sep 8, 2019

I did not mention it but you have to either re-create your project and uncheck that box when prompted during the Create project process (the step when you add a TM), or, after the said checkbox is unchecked in your existing project, you can just remove the file (when in source part of your project), then add and prepare it again.
Yes, they do apply to auto-propagation/translation workflow (not only to pretranslation). Before suggesting, I tried it myself and it worked. I don't create a ne
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I did not mention it but you have to either re-create your project and uncheck that box when prompted during the Create project process (the step when you add a TM), or, after the said checkbox is unchecked in your existing project, you can just remove the file (when in source part of your project), then add and prepare it again.
Yes, they do apply to auto-propagation/translation workflow (not only to pretranslation). Before suggesting, I tried it myself and it worked. I don't create a new project for each next task. I just changed the settings and added a file with your text (3 segments as in your example exactly). No pretranslation/preparation was involved.

[Edited at 2019-09-08 01:06 GMT]
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Roy Oestensen
Roy Oestensen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 17:54
Member (2010)
English to Norwegian (Bokmal)
+ ...
Autopropagate the plural and then search for the singular Sep 8, 2019

Nicholas Knutsen wrote:
I have many segments that I translate like this:
(A) 1 out of 5 = 1 gang av 5
(B) 2 out of 5 = 2 ganger av 5
(C) 3 out of 5 = 3 ganger av 5


I don't do my translation work in Studio, but rather in Dejavu, but the same problem exists there. My solution would be to autopropagate (B) 2 out of 5 = 2 ganger av 5 or even force propagate, which is a possibility in Dejavu, and then search for "1 ganger" and replace it with "1 gang".
Greetings from a somewhat rainy and cold Norway.
Roy


 
Hans Lenting
Hans Lenting
Netherlands
Member (2006)
German to Dutch
Auto-propagate forward only / regular expression? Sep 8, 2019

Isn't there a setting to limit auto-propagation to the forward direction? (This isn't a real solution but a workaround ...)

Since Studio doesn't offer auto-assembling: is it possible to create a regular expression for auto-propagation?


 
Roy Oestensen
Roy Oestensen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 17:54
Member (2010)
English to Norwegian (Bokmal)
+ ...
Perhaps choose Autopropagation > the user will be prompted > Always Sep 8, 2019

Hans Lenting wrote:
Isn't there a setting to limit auto-propagation to the forward direction? (This isn't a real solution but a workaround ...)


It seems the default setting is what you are suggesting, but I don't think it is even a workaround, since the autopropagation will propagate the segment the first time it appears, in which case the wrong translation will still appear.

A better solution would be to change "the user will be prompted > Never - always propagate without prompting user" to "the user will be prompted > Always". That way the translator would be able to catch those few instances where the translation should be singular rather than plural. It slows things down, though, so I still prefer the Search & Replace suggestion I came up with above over this solution. But checking each segment when autopropagate should give the translator better control over the translation process, though, and should hopefully not take much time compared to the size of the project, even if the project is large.


Hans Lenting
 
Andrzej Mierzejewski
Andrzej Mierzejewski  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 17:54
Polish to English
+ ...
I suggest a different method: Sep 8, 2019

I suggest a different method:

Once you've copied all the Source text to the Target column, do the following:
Find and Replace all "1 out of" with "1 gang av"
Find and Replace all "2 out of" with "2 ganger av"
Find and Replace all "3 out of" with "3 ganger av"
etc. until and including the highest number. Thereafter (assuming you've checked "Enable auto-propagation" and "Confirm segment after propagating an exact match") you will only need to confirm the first
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I suggest a different method:

Once you've copied all the Source text to the Target column, do the following:
Find and Replace all "1 out of" with "1 gang av"
Find and Replace all "2 out of" with "2 ganger av"
Find and Replace all "3 out of" with "3 ganger av"
etc. until and including the highest number. Thereafter (assuming you've checked "Enable auto-propagation" and "Confirm segment after propagating an exact match") you will only need to confirm the first instance of any such translation. Trados will (or should, at least) do the rest.

HTH

Edit: not sure whether the "Enable auto-propagation" option must be checked for this method. You may want to try without it.

[Zmieniono 2019-09-09 08:48 GMT]
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Andrzej Mierzejewski
Andrzej Mierzejewski  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 17:54
Polish to English
+ ...
Same for Slavic languages in general Sep 9, 2019

Stepan Konev wrote:

In Russian, there even more forms for different numerals:
1 буква (1 letter)
2, 3, 4 буквы (2, 3, 4 letters)
5, 6...20 букв_ (5, 6...20 letters)
21 буква (21 letters)
22, 23, 24 буквы (22, 23, 24 letters)
25, 26...30 букв_ (25, 26...30 letters)
etc.


In Polish and other Slavic languages, we have the same issue with small variations. That's much more complex than in e.g. English or German.


 
Nicholas Knutsen
Nicholas Knutsen
Norway
Local time: 17:54
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for all the suggestions! Sep 9, 2019

The best suggestion for me was the one suggested by my fellow-Norwegian Roy. Confirm a plural segment, like (B), and then replace all the ones that should be singular. (If you want to have these segments confirmed, you can then filter for them, select them all and change the status.)

For Slavic languages and Russian, other solutions might be better.

Andrzej's suggestion works too, except that you shouldn't confirm any segments afterwards (and it's not necessary, since y
... See more
The best suggestion for me was the one suggested by my fellow-Norwegian Roy. Confirm a plural segment, like (B), and then replace all the ones that should be singular. (If you want to have these segments confirmed, you can then filter for them, select them all and change the status.)

For Slavic languages and Russian, other solutions might be better.

Andrzej's suggestion works too, except that you shouldn't confirm any segments afterwards (and it's not necessary, since you already replaced everything). If you do, all the segment will change, even the ones that shouldn't. If you want the segments confirmed, you could turn off auto-propagation first, or you could just select them all and change the status like I wrote above.

Stepan's suggestion does work. But as he wrote, you have to recreate the project. This is not very convenient if you realize you need to do this in the middle of the translation. Also, it's not good that this setting (Disable Numbers) is tied to the TM. It should be tied to the project. Changing this setting and re-indexing the TM every time you need to do this (and then changing it back and re-indexing) is very inconvenient.
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Setting to only auto-propagate exact matches including numbers?







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