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Scam - German to English, climate change in coastal marine systems
Auteur du fil: Becca Resnik

jyuan_us  Identity Verified
États-Unis
Local time: 10:13
Membre (2005)
anglais vers chinois
+ ...
This information is not right May 31

Becca Resnik wrote:

They certainly have features, but that doesn't mean they alert you in time (or at all). Some banks will call you right away at an attempt of a large purchase, and others say nothing at all. I've been lucky to never have been the victim, but I've sure been a witness to friends and coworkers in this situation. After all, if it were foolproof, then it would indeed be safe to send your bank details (so they could directly transfer to you) - no? Even if they didn't try to take literally every penny, they can take a serious amount without most banks ever knowing it was suspicious activity.


No one except you can take money from your account, even if they have you account number and your bank's routing number.

They really cannot take any penny from your account.


Liviu-Lee Roth
 

Becca Resnik  Identity Verified
États-Unis
Local time: 10:13
Membre
allemand vers anglais
+ ...
AUTEUR DU FIL
Not true May 31

jyuan_us wrote:

No one except you can take money from your account, even if they have you account number and your bank's routing number.

They really cannot take any penny from your account.



They only need one more piece of your information, for instance your address (addresses are extremely accessible if you have even a slight amount of internet savvy), to take everything:


https://consumerboomer.com/what-can-someone-do-with-your-bank-account-and-routing-number

"Someone who knows your bank information such as account number and routing number can do the following: withdraw money from your account, use for online purchases, deposit money into your account, counterfeit checks, and eventually can hack your bank account.

Luckily, someone cannot easily access fully your bank account by just knowing your account number and routing number. They must also get some personal information such as your home address or even just your driver’s license number will do so that they can manipulate your bank account."


https://www.banks.com/articles/banking/checking-accounts/account-hacked-routing-number/

"personal checks contain both your routing and your account number. With both of these pieces of information, someone can potentially use them to withdraw money from your account, pay their own bills, purchase items from online vendors that allow direct payment from a checking account, or set up a new account funded from your bank account."


https://banks.org/what-can-someone-do-with-your-bank-account-number/

"Banks do have safeguards to help protect your account, but they are not always perfect. With your bank account number and other personal details, someone could deposit questionable money into your account, or they could use your money to go shopping."


So sure, they need an address, which is nearly impossible to scrub from the internet (even DL numbers can be findable). Not to mention as business owners (as opposed to just individuals), which we all are to some degree or another. [And in the case of scammers, they almost always ask for it outright.] But with that one, easily-accessible piece of information, yes, they absolutely can take money from your account. With this information, "no one except you" goes out the window, as they have the information they need to impersonate you. That's why they call it "identity theft." If all of this information were safe, nothing would tell you not to provide this information, and scammers wouldn't ask for it.


 

Katarzyna Slowikova  Identity Verified
Allemagne
Local time: 16:13
anglais vers tchèque
+ ...
The weakest point is always human May 31

jyuan_us wrote:

Becca Resnik wrote:

They certainly have features, but that doesn't mean they alert you in time (or at all). Some banks will call you right away at an attempt of a large purchase, and others say nothing at all. I've been lucky to never have been the victim, but I've sure been a witness to friends and coworkers in this situation. After all, if it were foolproof, then it would indeed be safe to send your bank details (so they could directly transfer to you) - no? Even if they didn't try to take literally every penny, they can take a serious amount without most banks ever knowing it was suspicious activity.


No one except you can take money from your account, even if they have you account number and your bank's routing number.

They really cannot take any penny from your account.


I won't speculate on this being possible or impossible in the US or indeed in the whole world because the rules and practices in countries differ but I'd like to point out that the security measures the banks present you on paper are one thing and their day to day practices another. Scammers can take advantage of the latter (and if they know it's easier in the US, it may also be the reason to filter only US translators).
To be specific: there was a story in this very forum of somebody in France (afaik) getting a large sum of money deposited to their account without their knowledge. The account owner was at the time expecting a wire, without knowing they are dealing with an overpayment scammer. What the scammer did was they went to the bank with the account details they got from the victim (just account number and name, afaik), posing as the account owner, and deposited a fake check as this person. The bank should have required a signature but didn't. Apparently they also didn't care about seeing this person's ID. Unbelievable, isn't it??! But these things happen because some bank employees don't do their job properly. (That being said, I don't believe it would be possible here in Germany - checks are practically out of use and to deposit money to your own account at the bank counter you have to pay quite hefty fees.)
That's why it's important to recognize a scam email the moment it arrives to your mailbox. In 99,9% it's no brainer, they're just the same copy-pasted rubbish that's been making rounds since the beginning of internet.


[Edited at 2020-05-31 11:05 GMT]


Liviu-Lee Roth
 

Becca Resnik  Identity Verified
États-Unis
Local time: 10:13
Membre
allemand vers anglais
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AUTEUR DU FIL
Exactly - perfect example May 31

Katarzyna Slowikova wrote:

What the scammer did was they went to the bank with the account details they got from the victim (just account number and name, afaik), posing as the account owner, and deposited a fake check as this person.


Perfect example. This is the concept behind identity theft. With a few small details, there is no way of it being verified that you are you. They have the details they make it look like they are you!

Katarzyna Slowikova wrote:

What the scammer did was they went to the bank with the account details they got from the victim (just account number and name, afaik), posing as the account owner, and deposited a fake check as this person. The bank should have required a signature but didn't. Apparently they also didn't care about seeing this person's ID. Unbelievable, isn't it??! But these things happen because some bank employees don't do their job properly.


We have a massive sense of false security in our banks! Those signatures we put on receipts? They are practically useless. Nobody is checking your signature!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDOtENyOxyA

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/12/5/18092092/credit-card-signatures-receipt-explained


 

Becca Resnik  Identity Verified
États-Unis
Local time: 10:13
Membre
allemand vers anglais
+ ...
AUTEUR DU FIL
(reply to several points) May 31

IrinaN wrote:
For one, by responding you confirmed that your email is real and active and is now in every database on the dark web.


The second you create an email address, it's already on the dark web! Okay, maybe some of them don't end up there until you make one account on one website. But my (and your and everyone else's) email has been on there practically since inception. Responding to a scammer's email is not how email addresses end up on the dark web. They're sending out requests to thousands or millions of email addresses at a time - they don't care about verification that it's "active."

Honestly, and I cannot emphasize enough that this comment is not directed at you or anyone else - there is so much misunderstanding over what the dark web is and what can happen on it.


There is no particular real person, such as some nerd is his mommy's basement having fun, trying to scam you and crying after failure to do so. Don't fool yourself, you can't beat it except by not reacting at all, and there is no reason to celebrate by imagining a nervous breakdown suffered by some sorry a**. You are dealing with a gigantic and sophisticated industry fully prepared for a certain percentage of failures, no problem. Keep your email away from them.


I have zero idea that this is some nerd in a basement. Nor that he had a nervous breakdown. I am very aware that these are huge, sophisticated crimes and crime circles.


I can't believe you are planning to waste your time and keep replying to every scam there is. As a minimum, you need to realize that the first message is not even generated by humans. It's an auto roller coaster. Liviu-Lee explained it thousand times in a dozen of forums.


If I can tell right off-hand that it's a scam, no, I don't waste my time. But while I knew to be cautious from the initial red flags in the first email, it could have been legitimate. There are fully-legitimate people who use hotmail accounts. The second email had all the immediate signs of being a scam, so I thought I'd have a little fun.


Just steer clear and stay safe!


Same to you!


 

Katarzyna Slowikova  Identity Verified
Allemagne
Local time: 16:13
anglais vers tchèque
+ ...
The victim has to play along May 31

Becca Resnik wrote:


Perfect example. This is the concept behind identity theft. With a few small details, there is no way of it being verified that you are you.


Hm.... how about ID cards...? But no, they'd surely be misused by the evil government...

They do have them in France, so to me, it's quite difficult to imagine how this interaction went on... there must have been some really exceptional a-hole sitting at the counter.

The point is 1) there're sometimes people like this working in the banks and 2) the person who sends the money to the overpayment scammer is always the account owner. I don't know about the US, but don't believe it's possible in Europe to withdraw money with only an account number and the owner's name (plus address or whatever that's basically out there to grab, particularly if you have a business). If it was, the most common scam wouldn't be overpayment scam but withdraw-money-from-any-account scam. It's possible to deposit fake money to an account using a fake check but the wire (and sometimes also the cashing of the check) has to always be done by somebody having much more details (here in Germany: access to Internet Banking which requires not only password but also a code they send to your phone and again a code sent to your phone to make a transaction. ANd of course you have to present your ID card to set up an account). That's why the title of my post was "The weakest point is always human".

So again, to make it absolutely clear: if you (no specific person meant) become a victim of an overpayment scam, it's because you wired the money to the scammer.

[Edited at 2020-05-31 16:13 GMT]


 

Becca Resnik  Identity Verified
États-Unis
Local time: 10:13
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AUTEUR DU FIL
They actually check it? May 31

Katarzyna Slowikova wrote:

Becca Resnik wrote:


Perfect example. This is the concept behind identity theft. With a few small details, there is no way of it being verified that you are you.


Hm.... how about ID cards...? But no, they'd surely be misused by the evil government...

They do have them in France, so to me, it's quite difficult to imagine how this interaction went on... there must have been some really exceptional a-hole sitting at the counter.


Hm, so I'm just curious - in your experience in France, for in-person credit card purchases, do they usually check ID? They don't in the States or anywhere else I've been (they're supposed to), so it would be refreshing to hear that *somewhere* does! At least in the US, it used to be that you could write "see ID" next to your signature, and the clerk then "had" to check the signature against your signed ID card. I think I had...one?...who actually did. :/


 

Liviu-Lee Roth
États-Unis
Local time: 10:13
roumain vers anglais
+ ...
Oh, dear, May 31

Becca Resnik wrote:

They only need one more piece of your information, for instance your address (addresses are extremely accessible if you have even a slight amount of internet savvy), to take everything:




Usually they ask for the last four digits of your social, your DOB and other info known ONLY to you!

I have sent my routing and account # to too many entities to remember. Never, ever got hacked or defrauded.

Also, keep in mind that most bank accounts are FDIC insured up to 100 000 USD.

Let us not make a big deal of such a mundane issue. Recommend to all our colleagues to read on a weekly basis the SCAM section and stay informed.

Stay safe,
lee


 

Becca Resnik  Identity Verified
États-Unis
Local time: 10:13
Membre
allemand vers anglais
+ ...
AUTEUR DU FIL
Just spreading info! May 31

Liviu-Lee Roth wrote:

I have sent my routing and account # to too many entities to remember. Never, ever got hacked or defrauded.


That's great! For the record, as long as the "entity" in question is a company with a background, I believe it's generally safe (that's how direct deposits work when you're a W-2 employee, after all). It's random individuals I'd be wary of. But if you've been safe with them, too, that's fantastic. Personally, I'd rather not assume the risk.

Also, keep in mind that most bank accounts are FDIC insured up to 100 000 USD.


Yeah, but who wants to have their assets frozen and/or accounts sucked dry in the meantime? Watching a friend go through this right now, and have witnessed several others. Sad!

Let us not make a big deal of such a mundane issue. Recommend to all our colleagues to read on a weekly basis the SCAM section and stay informed.


Sorry, absolutely not trying to make a big deal out of it. Trying to keep people informed! You're exactly right that people should regularly read the SCAM forums to stay informed, which is the only reason I'm trying to give so much information and resources. After all, we have people thinking their information isn't on the dark web if they haven't responded to a scammer's email! (Again, truly not targeting anyone, but that was a great example.) I've got news for you, my friends: All of our information is splattered all over the dark web, and nothing you did initiated that (other than being "on the grid"), and nothing can stop it.

[Edited at 2020-05-31 21:49 GMT]


Liviu-Lee Roth
 

Liviu-Lee Roth
États-Unis
Local time: 10:13
roumain vers anglais
+ ...
Thank you, May 31

Becca Resnik wrote:

Sorry, absolutely not trying to make a big deal out of it. Trying to keep people informed! You're exactly right that people should regularly read the SCAM forums to stay informed, which is the only reason I'm trying to give so much information and resources. After all, we have people thinking their information isn't on the dark web if they haven't responded to a scammer's email! (Again, truly not targeting anyone, but that was a great example.) I've got news for you, my friends: All of our information is splattered all over the dark web, and nothing you did initiated that (other than being "on the grid"), and nothing can stop it.

[Edited at 2020-05-31 21:49 GMT]


If somebody has the patience to analyze it, going back 5-8 years, a majority of scams targeted Spanish and German linguists. Unfortunately, according to the posts, many German female translators fell for the scam. Being of German origin myself, I understand that we were raised to be trusted and to trust. This is our weakness most crooks try to exploit.

On the scam section, usually we announce a new "name" of the scammer, the IP address and the type of scam (44 pages - 11,000 words; Big Pharma scams; Urgent need to translate a scientific presentation, etc).

No need to elaborate more because these issues have been discussed ad nauseam. As soon as a newcomer gets familiarized with these scams it it much easier to spot them and trash them right away.

Anyway, thank you for your input. One day, somebody will be thankful for saving his time and money.

Stay safe,
lee


 

Becca Resnik  Identity Verified
États-Unis
Local time: 10:13
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All good stuff May 31

Liviu-Lee Roth wrote:

If somebody has the patience to analyze it, going back 5-8 years, a majority of scams targeted Spanish and German linguists. Unfortunately, according to the posts, many German female translators fell for the scam. Being of German origin myself, I understand that we were raised to be trusted and to trust. This is our weakness most crooks try to exploit.


That is fascinating - thanks for sharing! I mean, it's sad, but fascinating.


On the scam section, usually we announce a new "name" of the scammer, the IP address and the type of scam (44 pages - 11,000 words; Big Pharma scams; Urgent need to translate a scientific presentation, etc).


Ah, so names are indeed allowed? The posting rules say not to, but if it is generally allowed, I will *gladly* include the name. I understand their intent to protect those who've had their identities stolen, but I find the alias of the current scammer to be pertinent information.


the IP address


I'll try not to dive too far down the rabbit hole on this one, but I have noticed a general overconfidence on these forums in what the IP address is telling you. By the very nature of the fact that a lot of these people are operating on the dark web, their IP address is getting routed through node after node of servers, to where this information isn't reliable at all. Even if they're not working on the dark web when contacting us, cybercriminals know they just need to change locations or use a VPN to change the IP. IPs are better than nothing, but they're not as meaningful as people think. [Whoops, I guess I went down the rabbit hole anyway...]


Anyway, thank you for your input. One day, somebody will be thankful for saving his time and money.


I sure hope so! If I save one person one dollar or one minute of time, I feel like I've helped inform someone!

Warm regards!


Liviu-Lee Roth
 

Viesturs Lacis  Identity Verified
Lettonie
Local time: 17:13
Membre (2014)
anglais vers letton/lette
Jun 1

Becca Resnik wrote:
Hm, so I'm just curious - in your experience in France, for in-person credit card purchases, do they usually check ID? They don't in the States or anywhere else I've been (they're supposed to), so it would be refreshing to hear that *somewhere* does! At least in the US, it used to be that you could write "see ID" next to your signature, and the clerk then "had" to check the signature against your signed ID card. I think I had...one?...who actually did. :/

In my corner of the EU - for credit card purchases, no. But it would take a monumental screwup for a bank to let something be withdrawn from the account in person without checking the ID of the customer. It has always struck me that consumer and business transactions in the US appear so much more lax in terms of identity verification and other security features.


 

jyuan_us  Identity Verified
États-Unis
Local time: 10:13
Membre (2005)
anglais vers chinois
+ ...
Go to your bank and test it for yourself. Jun 1

I cannot believe some people are making these observations of the banks in the US.

Again, no one can take a penny from your bank account except yourself.

Your ID is needed to withdraw money from your account at your bank. There is only one scenario in which someone can steal money from your bank account:

Your ID is stolen by someone who looks exactly as you.

I don't think this would happen.



[Edited at 2020-06-01 08:32 GMT]


 

Becca Resnik  Identity Verified
États-Unis
Local time: 10:13
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AUTEUR DU FIL
It's all digital Jun 1

jyuan_us wrote:

I cannot believe some people are making these observations of the banks in the US.

Again, no one can take a penny from your bank account except yourself.

Your ID is needed to withdraw money from your account at your bank. There is only one scenario in which someone can steal money from your bank account:

Your ID is stolen by someone who looks exactly as you.

I don't think this would happen.



[Edited at 2020-06-01 08:32 GMT]


Any in-person measure is out of the question when the transactions are digital, which is how identity theft is accomplished! And those are reputable sources, not "some people."


 

jyuan_us  Identity Verified
États-Unis
Local time: 10:13
Membre (2005)
anglais vers chinois
+ ...
Talking about "digital" Jun 1

You need to give your user ID and password you use to log into your account to a scammer for him to take money from your account.

Did any potential scammer ask your your login ID or password?


Liviu-Lee Roth
 
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