| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12] > | Project History (plus feedback!) features updated. Members are invited to use it! Thread poster: Henry Dotterer
|
|---|
| Good points, Larissa | Dec 12, 2005 |
Thanks for your thoughts, Larissa!
Larissa Dinsley wrote:
Below are some of my concerns:
1) First, I think this feature is only good if you do mention the names of your clients. I have some direct clients whom I am very proud to have as customers. But I would be very reluctant to name them publicly for a number of reasons. OK, I can hide their names, but then I do not really see the point of having such a list - in publicity terms - at all.
Even in that case, there is value. If you list several projects in Aerospace (and Air Services) without corroboration, even if a potential client can not be sure you actually did those projects, at least your *interest* in those areas is clear.
2) I agree with Giovanni - I would be very embarrassed to ask clients for their feedback. Moreover, if I do a number of projects for the same client, do I ask him/her to put their comments every time I do a job for them? Surely, people may not want to be bothered all the time?
...
3) I have a number of customers, mainly direct clients, who are not members of ProZ and have never heard about the site. They are busy people with busy schedules and I definitely would not want to bother them and to ask them to make an extra effort and post some feedback for me.
We have tried to make the process as convenient as possible for outsourcers. For example, an outsourcer can simply click a link in the email sent to him/her to begin the process, without registering at ProZ.com. Then, s/he fills out a brief form, no more than a minute. We'll revisit the email sent and add to it some text, and maybe discuss that text here, in order to communicate the purpose of this feedback, and how it benefits not only you but also the outsourcer asked to give feedback.
4) I may be wrong, but I am under the impression it is meant to be a kind of Blue Board of translators. When we post our feedback for agencies, we can give both positive and negative feedback. Is anybody going to allow any negative comments?  Otherwise, it appears to be a very biased list.
No, this will not amount to a Blue Board for translators. This is just a project history with a bit more: corroboration and feedback.
5) And finally, the eternal question of confidentiality. Some clients may not like this kind of publicity at all which would prevent us from including some interesting and important projects in the list.
That is true, and all we are setting out to do is make the process of obtaining approval or disapproval convenient and professional. It doesn't hurt to ask, though, and you might be surprised how many outsourcers are willing to give positive feedback and acknowledge projects in general terms. It is in their interest to strengthen their relationship with you.
I think this may be a good individual feature which people can use - if they like - but they should not be forced into it and, therefore, this list should not appear in the directory, but should be available only from one's profile. Because it may disadvantage some people who are really good translators but happen to have a different point of view regarding their marketing strategy, relations with clients and publicity.
I am afraid I can not agree with you there. If we did not add information to the directory, the benefit of differentiation would be seriously weakened. This would be a disservice to translators with clear areas of expertise and outstanding track records, who I believe are in need of additional tools to justify their higher-than-average rates.
| | | | Larissa Dinsley 
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:10
Member (2003)
English to Russian
+ ...
| Thank you for your reply, Henry | Dec 12, 2005 |
Thank you for your reply, Henry - and for the good work you do for all of us. I can see your point and do appreciate the efforts to add more value to what this site already offers to translators. I can see how some members can benefit from it but still think that ProZ is not in the position to ensure the complete "honesty" of the system and therefore still have my doubts.
One more question: When a non-ProZ member posts a feedback, is it considered to be "corroboration"?
| | | | Fabio Descalzi
Uruguay
Local time: 00:10
Member (2004)
German to Spanish
+ ...
| Thank you, Henry! | Dec 12, 2005 |
Henry wrote: fadesga wrote:
Now that I see that my site has been mentioned as a sort of "bad example", I would like to make some considerations about the topic involved. I don't think it was brought up as a "bad" example... just an example for discussion. In my opinion, it is a good example of how to use the project history.
Dear Henry:
It was very kind of you to make a quotation about me.
I was just worried, because it is perhaps the first time I am being commented online. Good point that I am being understood!!
Best regards,
Fabio Descalzi - "fadesga"
| | | | | A couple of points... | Dec 12, 2005 |
Although I appreciate Henry's effort in trying to offer value for money and new functions to the ProZ.com community, I believe the PH to be floored for the following reasons:
1) too complicated and cumbersome to implement. Too much time is necessary to fill in all the relevant data. Personally, I just don't have to time to do it. This means that, despite my contribution to the site with my membership, I will be disadvantaged in relation to other less busy members, who will have the ... See more Although I appreciate Henry's effort in trying to offer value for money and new functions to the ProZ.com community, I believe the PH to be floored for the following reasons:
1) too complicated and cumbersome to implement. Too much time is necessary to fill in all the relevant data. Personally, I just don't have to time to do it. This means that, despite my contribution to the site with my membership, I will be disadvantaged in relation to other less busy members, who will have the time to submit all the data. I find this unacceptable. Also, I know that Henry wants to provide a way to show our professionalism, but the 'real' professionals are just too busy to use such a tool. Who will benefit from it? Less experienced translators or beginners, who will have the time to provide all the relevant data and even to cheat.
2) It's a system which is at its most useful when it's corroborated through feedback. It's a feedback-based system, which I compared to e-bay earlier. Unfortunately, not all our outsourcers are prepared to give feedback, for various reasons (one being the unwillingness on behalf of the outsourcers to reveal business relationships in case other outsourcers pounce on their collaborators). So, a translator can be a truly professional, but cannot provide feedback. This looks bad and again, such a translator will be disadvantaged, through no fault of his/her own. The feedback aspect is too open to randomness to be valid.
3) The system is clearly open to abuse and there is no way of controlling this.
4) Given the unreliability of the feedback system, I agree with Larissa's suggestion: that this feature should not appear in the directory but be available as an extra feature on the profile pages. If the feature will be included, I will reconsider my Platinum membership next year.
Giovanni ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
Although I appreciate Henry's effort in trying to offer value for money and new functions to the ProZ.com community, I believe the PH to be floored for the following reasons:
1) too complicated and cumbersome to implement. Too much time is necessary to fill in all the relevant data. Personally, I just don't have to time to do it. This means that, despite my contribution to the site with my membership, I will be disadvantaged in relation to other less busy members, who will have the time to submit all the data. I find this unacceptable. Also, I know that Henry wants to provide a way to show our professionalism, but the 'real' professionals are just too busy to use such a tool. Who will benefit from it? Less experienced translators or beginners, who will have the time to provide all the relevant data and even to cheat.
It`s not a waste of time, but an investment, as writing your CV, applying for a job or any other marketing effort. You don`t have time? Don`t do it then. It`s not mandatory.
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
2) It's a system which is at its most useful when it's corroborated through feedback. It's a feedback-based system, which I compared to e-bay earlier. Unfortunately, not all our outsourcers are prepared to give feedback, for various reasons (one being the unwillingness on behalf of the outsourcers to reveal business relationships in case other outsourcers pounce on their collaborators). So, a translator can be a truly professional, but cannot provide feedback. This looks bad and again, such a translator will be disadvantaged, through no fault of his/her own. The feedback aspect is too open to randomness to be valid.
Exactly! It's a feedback-based system. And that`s what makes it more reliable.
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
4) If the feature will be included, I will reconsider my Platinum membership next year.
Giovanni
Is that a threat?
Ther is no need to take like that, Giovanni. It´s just a new feature, an optional feature, no big deal.
Calm down.
Walter
[Edited at 2005-12-12 17:27]
| | | | | I'm very calm... | Dec 12, 2005 |
Walter Landesman wrote:
It`s not a waste of time, but an investment, as writing your CV, applying for a job or any other marketing effort. You don`t have time? Don`t do it then. It`s not mandatory.
No, it's not mandatory, but it disadvantages the people who have not the time to do it. It's an extra burden.
Exactly! It's a feedback-based system. And that`s what makes it more reliable.
Come on! I can get all my friends to submit feedback! How safe is that!
Is that a threat?
Ther is no need to take like that, Giovanni. It´s just a new feature, an optional feature, no big deal.
Calm down.
It's not a threat. But I find this feature annoying. And it becomes a compulsory feature if you want to remain competitive.
Giovanni
| | | | Colin Brady
Argentina
Local time: 00:10
French to English
+ ...
| ProZ.com Colleague Corroboration | Dec 12, 2005 |
Henry wrote:
* NEW! If you have worked with ProZ.com colleagues on a project, you can request corroboration and feedback, just as you have from the outsourcers. (This corroboration is handled and displayed separately from that of clients.)
Hi Everyone,
Is there a reason why not many of you have used this feature?
Best Regards,
Colin
| | | |
Colin Brady wrote:
Is there a reason why not many of you have used this feature?
Best Regards,
Colin
As far as I'm concerned, it takes too much time. And I don't think I have to corroborate my credentials. The system is also open to abuse. And, contrary to what Henry says, it won't be used by most professionals, but by people who need to establish themselves, as a mean to get more visibility. Personally, I won't be using it, also because I won't disclose my clients, and having a big list of projects completed, without any feedback, is useless. I can put them on my CV, instead.
Giovanni
| | |
|
|
|
Mihai Badea (X)
Luxembourg
English to Romanian
+ ...
| Not aware of it | Dec 12, 2005 |
Colin Brady wrote:
Hi Everyone,
Is there a reason why not many of you have used this feature?
Best Regards,
Colin
It seems I missed Henry’s message. I was not aware of this possibility, but I think it is a good idea. I have just used it for my first entered project; it only took me a few seconds.
But, an explanation of this situation may be that many of our projects do not involve more than 1 translator.
[Edited at 2005-12-12 21:22]
| | | | Susana Galilea
United States
Local time: 22:10
English to Spanish
+ ...
| one more voice | Dec 12, 2005 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, it takes too much time. And I don't think I have to corroborate my credentials. The system is also open to abuse. And, contrary to what Henry says, it won't be used by most professionals, but by people who need to establish themselves, as a mean to get more visibility. Personally, I won't be using it, also because I won't disclose my clients, and having a big list of projects completed, without any feedback, is useless. I can put them on my CV, instead.
Giovanni
With all respect due this extraordinary site and all the staff members who keep it what it is, I am adding my name to the handful of colleagues who have expressed concerns over this new feature. Giovanni and Larissa have already expressed all my misgivings over this proposal, so I will not repeat them. After reading through Henry's replies, my concerns remain unchanged. I have been a member since 2003, and to date have embraced every addition and upgrade to this site --either by taking advantage of it (e.g., portfolio, blue board, etc.), or by ignoring it when I could not find a purpose for it (while recognizing its value for other colleagues). This is the first time a proposed feature "rubs me the wrong way" upon reading its description, and makes me wonder about the direction this site is taking. I agree with those who have expressed a concern this development stresses the competitive aspect of this site, which to me was always in the back burner, a natural phenomenon among colleagues in the same profession. Meanwhile, what keeps me coming to this community daily is the potential for collaboration, networking and learning among peers. As it stands, I fail to see what value this new feature would bring that is not covered by all the features already available (profile, portfolio, links to website, etc.), which greatly enhance a professional's visibility and presentation on its own terms. I will continue to read this thread with great interest, hoping for a better understanding of whatever escapes me. As always, thanks for the opportunity to express our concerns.
Happy holidays to all,
Susana Galilea
Accent On Spanish
Translation and Cross-Cultural Services
http://www.accentonspanish.com
http://www.proz.com/teams/140
[Edited at 2005-12-20 16:52]
| | | | Kunik
Local time: 05:10
English to Latvian
+ ...
Larissa Dinsley wrote:
this list should not appear in the directory, but should be available only from one's profile. Because it may disadvantage some people who are really good translators but happen to have a different point of view regarding their marketing strategy, relations with clients and publicity.
[Edited at 2005-12-12 09:01]
I wholeheartedly agree with this opinion. It can be a nice tool for those who want to use it, but it should have the same value as all the other tools our profiles offer, like portfolio or including a CV for download.
| | | | Susana Galilea
United States
Local time: 22:10
English to Spanish
+ ...
tinageta wrote: Larissa Dinsley wrote:
this list should not appear in the directory, but should be available only from one's profile. Because it may disadvantage some people who are really good translators but happen to have a different point of view regarding their marketing strategy, relations with clients and publicity.
[Edited at 2005-12-12 09:01] I wholeheartedly agree with this opinion. It can be a nice tool for those who want to use it, but it should have the same value as all the other tools our profiles offer, like portfolio or including a CV for download.
This sums up nicely what I was laboring to express above, thanks Agnese
Susana
| | |
|
|
|
Dusica Cook
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 05:10
English to Bosnian
+ ...
i find it beneficial if a client can go through my projects and see what is it i have done during my translation years. but, i do not really see a point of it being accessible through any link other than profile of the concerned translator. it should not take too much time to fill out information and we do not need to request the outsourcer to give their feedback!
when it comes to it being reliable or not... hm... how reliable are the portfolio examples? one can place text and trans... See more i find it beneficial if a client can go through my projects and see what is it i have done during my translation years. but, i do not really see a point of it being accessible through any link other than profile of the concerned translator. it should not take too much time to fill out information and we do not need to request the outsourcer to give their feedback!
when it comes to it being reliable or not... hm... how reliable are the portfolio examples? one can place text and translation done by anyone else and claim credits for the job, can't they!
anyhow... i find it useful! it might or might not make up the mind of a potential outsourcer to use me! but... what really makes their minds up? it is not our portfolio, or the project history, or years of experience - it is their (dis)satisfaction after the first job they give us! ▲ Collapse
| | | |
Colin Brady wrote: Henry wrote:
* NEW! If you have worked with ProZ.com colleagues on a project, you can request corroboration and feedback, just as you have from the outsourcers. (This corroboration is handled and displayed separately from that of clients.)
Hi Everyone, Is there a reason why not many of you have used this feature? Best Regards, Colin
Hi Colin,
Maybe the main reason is that not many of us have worked with Proz colleagues on a project. My case, I have neved done it - so far. I usually work alone.
But I will certainly use this feature if I have the chance.
Best,
Walter
| | | | Fabio Descalzi
Uruguay
Local time: 00:10
Member (2004)
German to Spanish
+ ...
| I agree with you both | Dec 13, 2005 |
Walter Landesman wrote: Mihai Badea wrote:
Considering the potentially high risk of deceit, it may also be a good idea that only corroborated projects are shown for public view.
This is an interesting idea. It might help to calm down all those concerns about making up projects. Walter
Yeah, I wholly agree with both of you.
The PH is a "special feature", and it would be desirable to show only those projects with a corroboration, i.e. a feedback.
After all: up to this moment, if one wanted to tell his whole project history, with or without corroboration, it already was perfectly possible to include the mention of all the past projects in the Profile.
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Project History (plus feedback!) features updated. Members are invited to use it! | Protemos translation business management system | Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!
The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.
More info » |
| | Wordfast Pro | Translation Memory Software for Any Platform
Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users!
Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value
Buy now! » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
