Pages in topic:   < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12]
ProZ Find™ (new freelancer directory) released in alpha stage. Feedback sought.
Thread poster: ..... (X)
Katalin Szilárd
Katalin Szilárd  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 14:07
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Subjective May 28, 2018

Henry Dotterer wrote:

Katalin Szilárd wrote:
1) What is the subject of your document? Is it a general text or a highly specialized text (highly medical, legal, financial, engineering etc.)?

Thanks for "playing along" by responding, Katalin. One of things I wanted to see was whether or not this question would be asked. (It relates to a feature I'm considering.)

2) What do you mean by an expert? A person with a diploma in a specific field or a person who is an expert in a specific field regardless he/she has a diploma in that field or not?

I meant a person who is intimately familiar with the field (diploma or not).

3) And what do you mean by "a very good translator in general"? A translator who is a very good translator at translating general texts (like a person's daily routine) or he/she is good at translating simple (not highly specialized) texts within a specific field?

I meant a person who has shown themselves to be expert in *some* field, but not necessarily the field of the document in hand.

Thanks also for your reply ("both"), Tom and Giovanni.


I agree with Giovanni, Tom in London and liviu roth.
If it is a specialized text: the translator needs to be a good translator + expert within the field of the text.

In case of agencies: project managers may not speak the language of the source text that needs to be translated. Even if the text is her/his native-language: for someone who is not familiar with a field everything seems to be specialized language. This is a very subjective topic.

I think a general text is a text that consists of simple sentences, the text is easy to understand even for children.
A general text within a specific field is a different category, although it is also easy to understand but the translator needs to know the general terminology within the specific field.
For example: a general HR text. A translator who is specialized in finance/business or legal or medical etc. may easily translate a HR text with a perfect result.

In search, even field categories may cause problems. When you have a pharmaceutical patent text: it is not enough to find a pharmaceutical translator but she/he needs to be familiar with legal terminology of patents as well. Or for example medical-technical texts are often categorized as technical (even in translation exams).

Henry, if you make too many selection options (subjective ones involved as well), it may narrow down the search too much and maybe not in the correct direction since opinions may differ in this topic depending on who is doing the search and what is the text.


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:07
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Other May 28, 2018

Henry Dotterer wrote:

Thanks also for your reply ("both"), Tom and Giovanni.


And my other question, Henry? It is relevant to the discussion.


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 09:07
SITE FOUNDER
Thanks, Liviu. What about interpreting? May 28, 2018

liviu roth wrote:

It is better to have an expert translator in the particular field, than a good translator, in general.
I cannot pretend to be a very good translator, in general, but I can affirm that I am an expert in the field of criminal law needed for the DOJ. I came across translations done by very good, certified translators, that misunderstood certain legal concepts (e.g. ”double jeopardy” translated as ”dual criminality”, which is wrong!)

Thank you, Liviu.

I know you often comment, insightfully, on interpreting. How do you view the question when it comes to selecting an interpreter?


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 09:07
SITE FOUNDER
Our lack of translation experience? Or your lack of business experience? May 28, 2018

Tom in London wrote:
And my other question, Henry? It is relevant to the discussion.

You are referring to your question "How many staff members at Proz are, or have been, translators?" This question would be relevant to the current discussion if the answer were what you apparently presume it to be. But it is not.

Your question makes me wonder how much experience you have in business...

Could ProZ.com be ProZ.com without a first-hand understanding of what it means to be a translator? How would one come up with KudoZ or the Blue Board? Or powwows, WIWO, TGB, etc.? How would one compose the industry's most widely endorsed code of conduct, maintain its largest library of training material, or host its largest virtual event?

To answer your question directly: As you may know, I was a freelance translator before founding ProZ.com. And depending on definitions, I guess that the number of the rest of the team with direct personal experience in translation and interpreting is between six and twelve. Almost all of the rest have used or are using a second or third language as their primary language at work.

In short, I would proudly put my team's understanding of translation, and more specifically freelance translation, up against that of any business.


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:07
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Wonderful May 28, 2018

Henry Dotterer wrote:

Your question makes me wonder how much experience you have in business...



Never mind, you answered the question when I repeated my request. Thanks.


 
Kay Denney
Kay Denney  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 14:07
French to English
It depends of course May 28, 2018

Henry Dotterer wrote:

Just looking for general thoughts on this... any comments you care to share will be appreciated.

Let's say you were a client with a job in hand. Who would you want to hire?

- A person who is a very good translator in general?
- Or a person who is an expert in the field?

I know that this is an open-ended question, and I know that "it depends", and so on. But I'd like to hear how some of you think about this in general. Play along, if you would.


I have no medical training and cannot in any way be considered an expert in medicine. So I systematically refuse any translations requiring medical knowledge. As a PM, I always made sure of finding translators with training at least in some medical field to translate documentation for the FDA, or instructions for using MRIs and scans.

Unless it happens to be vulgarisation. At one point I was translating booklets on various aspects of healthcare for senior citizens, like "how to take care of your gut" and "making sure you get enough Vitamin D" and "all you need to know about your prostate". It was medical, but it had to be easily understood by the reader, who didn't necessarily have any prior medical knowledge beyond knowing whether to take an aspirin. I don't like to boast, but I know I did a good job on them. I found it very interesting, so I researched the subject thoroughly, often pointing out errors in the source text which was then modified. I made sure the text flowed smoothly. I'm pretty sure I did a better job than most bilingual doctors.


 
Michele Fauble
Michele Fauble  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:07
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
+ ...
Ideally May 28, 2018

Henry Dotterer wrote:

Just looking for general thoughts on this... any comments you care to share will be appreciated.

Let's say you were a client with a job in hand. Who would you want to hire?

- A person who is a very good translator in general?
- Or a person who is an expert in the field?

I know that this is an open-ended question, and I know that "it depends", and so on. But I'd like to hear how some of you think about this in general. Play along, if you would.


A person who knows as much about the subject matter as the author of the source text.


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 09:07
SITE FOUNDER
Thanks, everyone May 28, 2018

Thanks for the additional comments, Michele and Kay. The feedback to my question has been helpful.

Based on what we've heard here, and more importantly, what we have seen in terms of usage, and data gained in other "offline" analysis (thanks to those who were involved), we are going to make the KudoZ sort the default sort in Find for the time being. I feel that with this adaptation, it is fair to elevate the exposure of Find, so that clients may benefit from this more user-fr
... See more
Thanks for the additional comments, Michele and Kay. The feedback to my question has been helpful.

Based on what we've heard here, and more importantly, what we have seen in terms of usage, and data gained in other "offline" analysis (thanks to those who were involved), we are going to make the KudoZ sort the default sort in Find for the time being. I feel that with this adaptation, it is fair to elevate the exposure of Find, so that clients may benefit from this more user-friendly and useful search mechanism, without a significant change in the positioning of service providers.

We will do some additional work on the "best match" sort. To be clear, KudoZ will probably not be the default sort forever. If and when I am convinced that the "best match" sort is better than the KudoZ sort, it will become the default.

Apart from sorting, there are several other issues that came up in this thread that will be addressed. I wrote earlier:

Examples of other feedback in this thread that has led to changes or planned changes are Robin Levey's post on classification (and Thomas T. Frost's related point), Thomas's reference to WIWO, Katalin Horváth McClure noticing that she was left out in SecurePRO searches, Kay Denney's points about profile bio content, her experience as a PM, and idea regarding experience outside translation, Kay and Tom in London's notes on KudoZ, Tom in London's point (and Giovanni Guarnieri's, Helen Shiner's, Mónica Algazi's and jyuan_us's agreement) about number of WWA's, Mirko Mainardi's point about the effect of keyword search on his ranking (and feedback on "stars"), Katalin Szilárd's "who would you hire?" question (and noticing of the issue with last activity), Lincoln Hui's question on working vs. specialty fields (and feedback concerning the degree to which Find was being promoted), Miguel Pérez's comments concerning his drop in position and the prospects for new translators, Ivana UK's noticing she was not found in certain interpreter searches, Natalie's investigation of SecurePRO/pools/names, Alistair Gainey's report concerning the same person coming up first in multiple English/French fields, Samuel Murray's "mysterious black arrow", Roman Karabaev's report (followed up on offline) of going from 3rd to 64th in his specialty field, Jo Macdonald's testing of the rate filter, Katalin Horváth McClure's ideas related to native languages (and more generally, defaults and saving of preferences), Andy Watkinson's (and Natalie's) report concerning the automated email, and more.

If you made a point in this thread that you think is relevant that I did not list and that resulted in no changes, please feel free to post again. (Or if you are Liviu.) Otherwise, feel free to post, but please understand that we are now focused on another round of development and will not be participating in this thread for a while.
Collapse


 
Liviu-Lee Roth
Liviu-Lee Roth
United States
Local time: 09:07
Romanian to English
+ ...
Almost the same suggestion for interpreters May 28, 2018

Henry Dotterer wrote:

liviu roth wrote:

It is better to have an expert translator in the particular field, than a good translator, in general.
I cannot pretend to be a very good translator, in general, but I can affirm that I am an expert in the field of criminal law needed for the DOJ. I came across translations done by very good, certified translators, that misunderstood certain legal concepts (e.g. ”double jeopardy” translated as ”dual criminality”, which is wrong!)

Thank you, Liviu.

I know you often comment, insightfully, on interpreting. How do you view the question when it comes to selecting an interpreter?


Unfortunately, here in the US, there are languages with a low distribution (or interpreters) and volens nolens the available interpreters must cover a large range of fields. An honest and professional interpreter will decline an assignment in a field where he does not feel comfortable.
I am excluding from the above statement the conference interpreters, who are at a different, higher level of interpreting. We can debate for days on this subject.
Answering to your question, I would look first for an interpreter specialized in the field I need; if there is none available, I would take one who is specialized in a related field, then any certified (if available) or qualified interpreter. From my experience, there are excellent interpreters in certain fields (court interpreters) who are, unfortunately, very rigid in their approach to other type of interpreting and apply the court interpreting rules in all other situations; personally, I don't agree with this approach. An interpreter should be flexible and approach each assignment with an open mind.

My other 2c
Liviu


 
Pages in topic:   < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12]


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

ProZ Find™ (new freelancer directory) released in alpha stage. Feedback sought.






Wordfast Pro
Translation Memory Software for Any Platform

Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users! Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value

Buy now! »
TM-Town
Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business

Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.

More info »