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ProZ.com staff deleting Blue Board entry?
Thread poster: Lingua 5B
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:28
Member (2008)
Italian to English
ALas Aug 8, 2016

Jenny Forbes wrote:

..... I'd certainly never work for this outsourcer again.


On the one hand it is important that thoughtless translators should not be able to post libellous comments or unjustified criticisms on the BB that might damage the reputation of an outsourcer.

On the other hand, we'll never know who it was or what exactly happened in Jenny's case because the BB no longer permits any kind of critical or negative comment.

Surely this deprives the BB of its function? Is there a way around this?


 
Maija Cirule
Maija Cirule  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 09:28
German to English
+ ...
When I last checked Aug 8, 2016

Robert Forstag wrote:

Ralf Lemster wrote:

It's sad to see how the BB has evolved.

Ralf


Positive ratings and comments are immediately accepted while many (if not most) negative comments are immediately rejected.

It is hard to see this clearly established pattern as anything other than a bias in favor of the outsourcers listed on the BB and against translators reporting unsatisfactory experiences with said outsourcers.

The rules regarding negative comments on the BB are also applied in a highly inconsistent way. Thus, I continually see harsh comments on the BB of recent origin, and yet any time during the past few years when I have tried to post a negative comment, it has been rejected for somehow being out of compliance with the rules.

Given that some of my own rejected comments have been considerably less harsh than those I've seen posted, this pattern is truly baffling. Maybe it all depends on who is doing the vetting at a given time.

The BB allows the "safe option" of posting a rating of "1" or "2" without any accompanying comment. This is the route I've taken when I've had problems with outsourcers, but it really is unsatisfactory, as it provides no justification of the rating, and requires anyone consulting the record to take the extra step of contacting the rater via e-mail in order to find out the story behind the low rating.

translators are paying TO proz and not the other way around. In my book, this means that proz shall serve the interests of their sponsors, translators, and not vice versa, or am I wrong?


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 02:28
SITE FOUNDER
No new policy here Aug 8, 2016

Hi all,

Paula has already shared and explained the policies used to oversee the Blue Board, so I won't elaborate on those details. But I will add the following general points:

* Our goal is to oversee the Blue Board in as fair and as responsible a manner as possible. We believe that this is the best way to serve our translator members.

* The comments in this thread suggesting that there has been some change in the Blue Board oversight policies are inaccurat
... See more
Hi all,

Paula has already shared and explained the policies used to oversee the Blue Board, so I won't elaborate on those details. But I will add the following general points:

* Our goal is to oversee the Blue Board in as fair and as responsible a manner as possible. We believe that this is the best way to serve our translator members.

* The comments in this thread suggesting that there has been some change in the Blue Board oversight policies are inaccurate. The policies in question have been around for years; these are the policies that have helped to make the Blue Board the most trusted and relied-upon tool of its kind in this industry.

* Some of the translators in this thread have complained that the Blue Board is biased in favor of outsourcers. When we talk with outsourcers, it is fairly common to hear exactly the opposite. (Yet most parties on both sides, it seems to me, would say that the Blue Board is fair overall.) This reassures me that we are doing ok in terms of fairness.

Henry

Robert Forstag wrote:
Positive ratings and comments are immediately accepted while many (if not most) negative comments are immediately rejected.

This is not accurate. No Blue Board entry is rejected due to a low number, and no Blue Board entry is rejected due to a negative comment. ("I will definitely not be working with this agency again" is a perfectly valid comment.) Entries are rejected only when they violate the rules of the Blue Board (for example, rule #7). Clearly this is a minority of cases.
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Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 02:28
SITE FOUNDER
I wold encourage you to post, Jenny Aug 8, 2016

Jenny Forbes wrote:
I myself recently and most reluctantly decided not to make a negative entry about an outsourcer who, I think, treated me shabbily for fear of (a) not getting paid anything for the job concerned and (b) the outsourcer unfairly alleging poor performance which might damage my reputation. Now that I have been paid (less than originally agreed), I suppose I could make a negative entry but I'd still run the risk that the outsourcer might make a negative comment about my work and I no longer have all the correspondence about the job with which to "prove my innocence". I'd certainly never work for this outsourcer again.

I'm sorry to hear about your experience with this company, which sounds like not a very good one. Given that you would "certainly never work for this outsourcer again", I think you should make an entry that reflects that. That's all the number reflects -- your personal likelihood of working with them again.


 
Yasutomo Kanazawa
Yasutomo Kanazawa  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 15:28
Member (2005)
English to Japanese
+ ...
Then, why no more "contact me privately for further details"? Aug 8, 2016

Henry Dotterer wrote:

Hi all,

Paula has already shared and explained the policies used to oversee the Blue Board, so I won't elaborate on those details. But I will add the following general points:

* Our goal is to oversee the Blue Board in as fair and as responsible a manner as possible. We believe that this is the best way to serve our translator members.

* The comments in this thread suggesting that there has been some change in the Blue Board oversight policies are inaccurate. The policies in question have been around for years; these are the policies that have helped to make the Blue Board the most trusted and relied-upon tool of its kind in this industry.

* Some of the translators in this thread have complained that the Blue Board is biased in favor of outsourcers. When we talk with outsourcers, it is fairly common to hear exactly the opposite. (Yet most parties on both sides, it seems to me, would say that the Blue Board is fair overall.) This reassures me that we are doing ok in terms of fairness.

Henry


Hi Henry,

I was wondering then, why "contact me privately for further details" is no longer allowed at BB despite of your telling us that the policies have not changed? I don't see anything wrong with this comment, and sometimes it's so hard to describe and share your personal experience with an outsourcer in less than 200 letters. The aforementioned comment is one useful way to tell anybody who is interested in what happened between a translator and a client.

I also have the same experience as Tom, where I entered a low score of "1" with a comment saying "write me personally for details" where I my comments were rejected for unknown reasons.

Would you tell me why these kinds of comments are not allowed anymore, when they were allowed several years ago?


 
Anna Valjakka
Anna Valjakka  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 09:28
French to Finnish
+ ...
Why? What's the motivation of ProZ? Aug 8, 2016

Robert Forstag wrote:

Ralf Lemster wrote:

It's sad to see how the BB has evolved.

Ralf


Positive ratings and comments are immediately accepted while many (if not most) negative comments are immediately rejected.

It is hard to see this clearly established pattern as anything other than a bias in favor of the outsourcers listed on the BB and against translators reporting unsatisfactory experiences with said outsourcers.

The rules regarding negative comments on the BB are also applied in a highly inconsistent way. Thus, I continually see harsh comments on the BB of recent origin, and yet any time during the past few years when I have tried to post a negative comment, it has been rejected for somehow being out of compliance with the rules.

Given that some of my own rejected comments have been considerably less harsh than those I've seen posted, this pattern is truly baffling. Maybe it all depends on who is doing the vetting at a given time.

The BB allows the "safe option" of posting a rating of "1" or "2" without any accompanying comment. This is the route I've taken when I've had problems with outsourcers, but it really is unsatisfactory, as it provides no justification of the rating, and requires anyone consulting the record to take the extra step of contacting the rater via e-mail in order to find out the story behind the low rating.


Not only as a response to the quoted comments, but as a general question: what's the motivation of ProZ to be on the bias of the outsourcers? Getting bigger money from outsourcer member fees (or something)? There's really a need for an even platform (the classic "level playing field") for both parties.


 
Lingua 5B
Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 08:28
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I personally prefer a brief explanation. Aug 8, 2016

We are all busy and contacting someone additionally to hear the story behind the issue may be time consuming.

I must report that I have never experienced attempts to have my BB comment removed (which is now back, thank you Staff), until now with this particular outsourcer, and I was in a position to have to write negative feedback earlier on several occasions (unfortunately).

I understand that an issue may be complex (mine was), but then just focus on the most important
... See more
We are all busy and contacting someone additionally to hear the story behind the issue may be time consuming.

I must report that I have never experienced attempts to have my BB comment removed (which is now back, thank you Staff), until now with this particular outsourcer, and I was in a position to have to write negative feedback earlier on several occasions (unfortunately).

I understand that an issue may be complex (mine was), but then just focus on the most important and most negative aspects of all to use for your 200-word summary. For instance, flash the due figure, overdue time, their manner of dealing with you, should be enough for the beginning. I've seen some amazing briefs on BB where a translator gives me the full picture in just one sentence, and I immediately get a feel of the agency.
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Jennifer Forbes
Jennifer Forbes  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:28
French to English
+ ...
In memoriam
I lost my email records about three months ago ... Aug 8, 2016

... following the collapse of my hard disk and the installation of a new computer and emailing system, so I don't have any of the correspondence concerning the troublesome job I did for this particular client in May. Thus, if I made a negative entry and the outsourcer were to claim poor performance, I'd be unable to prove what actually happened. That is what is stopping me.

 
Lingua 5B
Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 08:28
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Aww, so sorry : ( Aug 8, 2016

Jenny Forbes wrote:

... following the collapse of my hard disk and the installation of a new computer and emailing system, so I don't have any of the correspondence concerning the troublesome job I did for this particular client in May. Thus, if I made a negative entry and the outsourcer were to claim poor performance, I'd be unable to prove what actually happened. That is what is stopping me.


This is why back-ups are so important (refer to technical forums). Was your email system some kind of paid hosting?

My gmail automatically saves all the correspondence within the last two years. But then it's also good to have a back-up email so you have all your emails saved/received twice at two different locations.


 
Enrique Cavalitto
Enrique Cavalitto  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 03:28
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
Edited entry from a no specialist Aug 8, 2016

Tom in London wrote:

No longer

Instead of posting a negative comment about a bad agency, I used to simply give a low score and my only comment was "contact me privately for further details."

Apparently you can't even do that now.

I too am sad about what has happened to the BlueBoard. But it could be fixed, if there was a desire to do so.


Hi Tom,

As far as I can see, the only time in the last several years that you offered additional information to those who contacted you privately in a negative negative BB entry was in January 2013, and this was approved by staff.

This kind of response is fully allowed, and anyone who had an entry hidden for this reason should submit a support request to have the issue corrected.

Regards,
Enrique

Oops - After 5+ years working on the translation center I am definitely not an expert on the Blue Board, and I will leave further replies in the hand of my more expert colleagues.

Regards,
Enrique


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:28
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Yes, but... Aug 9, 2016

Enrique Cavalitto wrote:

As far as I can see, the only time in the last several years that you offered additional information to those who contacted you privately in a negative negative BB entry was in January 2013, and this was approved by staff.


Yes, that's correct but I seem to remember that on a subsequent occasion (a long time ago) when I did the same thing again, my negative entry was rejected - so I have never again made any more negative BB ratings. I've heard that other users have encountered the same problem.


 
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ProZ.com staff deleting Blue Board entry?






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