PROZ members should be allowed to name unprofessional agencies
Thread poster: Marie Claude Etoc
Marie Claude Etoc
Marie Claude Etoc  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 05:53
Member
French to English
+ ...
Apr 26, 2016

PROZ paying members should be allowed to name unprofessional agencies who are clearly not following business ethics and proz professional ethics, standards and guidelines.

Translating agencies that post confirmed projects that accept our quotes, request tests, bombard translators with numerous ASAP responses to emails confirm we have passed their tests then want a best rate only to inform us project was not confirmed by their clients, is on hold etc.. we all know the excuses. It is
... See more
PROZ paying members should be allowed to name unprofessional agencies who are clearly not following business ethics and proz professional ethics, standards and guidelines.

Translating agencies that post confirmed projects that accept our quotes, request tests, bombard translators with numerous ASAP responses to emails confirm we have passed their tests then want a best rate only to inform us project was not confirmed by their clients, is on hold etc.. we all know the excuses. It is quite obvious they have gotten a free test, they did have confirmation but are just not ethical NEED I SAY MORE.

So much time would be saved and just as their are honest to good translators out there abiding by all the rules of conducting ourselves with good business practice and following professional ethics, standard and guidelines should we not expect the same from the companies therefore by eliminating such companies by having their names posted.
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Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:53
Member (2008)
Italian to English
I disagree Apr 26, 2016

Marie Claude Etoc wrote:

PROZ paying members should be allowed to name unprofessional agencies who are clearly not following business ethics and proz professional ethics, standards and guidelines.

Translating agencies that post confirmed projects that accept our quotes, request tests, bombard translators with numerous ASAP responses to emails confirm we have passed their tests then want a best rate only to inform us project was not confirmed by their clients, is on hold etc.. we all know the excuses. It is quite obvious they have gotten a free test, they did have confirmation but are just not ethical NEED I SAY MORE.

So much time would be saved and just as their are honest to good translators out there abiding by all the rules of conducting ourselves with good business practice and following professional ethics, standard and guidelines should we not expect the same from the companies therefore by eliminating such companies by having their names posted.


I disagree. I understand the thinking behind your proposal but being allowed to name names would simply open the door to every imaginable kind of abuse. If there are particular agencies you don't like you can always discuss them in private with other Proz members. And then there's the Blue Board.


 
Michal Fabian
Michal Fabian  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 06:53
Dutch to Slovak
+ ...
That would get subjective and abusive really fast. Apr 26, 2016

That being said, ProZ is not the holy grail of translation - there are many other platforms, groups and resources, where you can name those agencies freely, look them up and leave reports (or praise!).

 
Soonthon LUPKITARO(Ph.D.)
Soonthon LUPKITARO(Ph.D.)  Identity Verified
Thailand
Local time: 17:53
English to Thai
+ ...
Among the cases I encountered Apr 27, 2016

Marie Claude Etoc wrote:

So much time would be saved and just as their are honest to good translators out there abiding by all the rules of conducting ourselves with good business practice and following professional ethics, standard and guidelines should we not expect the same from the companies therefore by eliminating such companies by having their names posted.


I am an old user of Proz.com since its inception. The idea not to reveal unprofessional agencies is very acceptable for me since I know that Proz.com wants to continue its commercial benefits and businesses among linguistic providers. Proz.com wants to prevent abuse through its websites.

In contrast, most [freelance] translators are exposed to risks of an increasing number of dishonest translation agencies. Proz.com's functions to protect translators are limited. For instance, now it is quite difficult for translators to key in low rates about translation agencies in its Blue Board, while very positive ratings are very happily accepted.

I was a member and now a partial member of Proz.com since I expect not much protection to translators although I can enjoy it widely if I were a translation agency owner.

In my personal movements, I met with a number of unprofessional translation agencies and I am fighting alone to protect myself with righteousness by means of many latest cyber space technologies as well as legal powers.

I dream of a day when freelance translators can organize and launch a website equivalent to Proz.com to protect Internet-based freelance translators better.

I remind of the days how I suffered as a personal subcontractor to many large enterprises that exploit my wisdom, academic intelligence and my experience. Those were not fair transactions for me if said under a legal definition.

Soonthon L.


 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 11:53
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
I fully agree, but... Apr 27, 2016

Marie Claude Etoc wrote:
ProZ.com paying members should be allowed to name unprofessional agencies who are clearly not following business ethics and ProZ.com professional ethics, standards and guidelines.


Yes, absolutely. A purple board. A darker "blue" board for agencies that you may or may not have done actual work for, but have had sufficient contact with to evaluate their professionalism. The only thing is... you'd have to draw up a list of things that are generally accepted flags, and a list of things that (although quite annoying) are not truly flags for unprofessionalism. And I'm afraid it is at this point that this suggestion will fall.

For example, offering a very low rate is not unprofessional or unethical per se, but I suspect that many translators who might be interested in posting to the purple board would complain about the rates they were offered, and nothing else. Or another example: failing to use the same type of politeness as one would expect from an educated native speaker of the correspondence language is not unprofessional or rude, but I think many sensitive translators will think so and would itch to post to the purple board for being slighted in an e-mail.

A thing that does, in my opinion, mark unprofessional or unethical agencies, is offering the translator a lower rate after the translator completed the sign-up process and after the translator was made to understand that the rate would be higher. Or, expecting the translator to sign a draconian agreement, but only informing him of this after part of the sign-up process has been completed.

Translating agencies that post confirmed projects that accept our quotes, request tests, bombard translators with numerous ASAP responses to emails, confirm we have passed their tests then want a best rate, only to inform us project was not confirmed by their clients, is on hold etc.


Yes, see, not all of these things are unethical or unprofessional, particularly not in an environment where speed of negotiation/confirmation is essential, human resources are spread thinly, and end-clients don't appoint an agency until the agency confirms that it has the required resources lined up (and in which end-clients often approach multiple agencies simultaneously).

For translators who are used to slow-paced project management environments, it may be harrowing to find themselves in a situation of fast-paced working conditions (and they may even think that the other party is rude and unprofessional for not doing things the way the slow-paced translator is used to).



[Edited at 2016-04-27 13:35 GMT]


 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 10:53
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
There are other places Apr 27, 2016

Such as this:
Unacceptable Translation Rates Naming & Shaming Group
https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3415770


 
Ilan Rubin (X)
Ilan Rubin (X)  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 13:53
Russian to English
Why not just expand the Blue Board? Apr 27, 2016

If I'm searching a particular agency I would want to look up one DB, not several. If we expanded the BB then I would add a couple of entries on 2 agencies who reached out to me and innocently asked me to sign and send back their standard NDAs. Well, I'm trained to read agreements (to the annoyance of my insurers!) and these two particular NDAs had clauses where I gave unlimited indemnities. UNLIMITED. So I told these scummy agencies what to do with their NDAs, but as I hadn't done any work for t... See more
If I'm searching a particular agency I would want to look up one DB, not several. If we expanded the BB then I would add a couple of entries on 2 agencies who reached out to me and innocently asked me to sign and send back their standard NDAs. Well, I'm trained to read agreements (to the annoyance of my insurers!) and these two particular NDAs had clauses where I gave unlimited indemnities. UNLIMITED. So I told these scummy agencies what to do with their NDAs, but as I hadn't done any work for them I didn't write to the BB.Collapse


 
Soonthon LUPKITARO(Ph.D.)
Soonthon LUPKITARO(Ph.D.)  Identity Verified
Thailand
Local time: 17:53
English to Thai
+ ...
Limits of Blue Board May 7, 2016

ILAN RUBIN wrote:

If I'm searching a particular agency I would want to look up one DB, not several. If we expanded the BB then I would add a couple of entries on 2 agencies who reached out to me and innocently asked me to sign and send back their standard NDAs. Well, I'm trained to read agreements (to the annoyance of my insurers!) and these two particular NDAs had clauses where I gave unlimited indemnities. UNLIMITED. So I told these scummy agencies what to do with their NDAs, but as I hadn't done any work for them I didn't write to the BB.


In my latest experience, I was decline by Proz.com staff when I tried to enter the new agency in BB. They say ""xxx Translation Service" was rejected for the following reason: Other (describe below) (Inconsistent contact details.)."

In fact, this agency is in China. I spent many days to search for its exact contacts since it hid a number of facts before. I also posted "Roles of project manager" and "How to enter an outsourcer without website" for this agency in Proz forum.
It is unfortunate, Proz.com never accepted my entry. I still have no way in Proz.com to warn against a troublesome agency/outsourcer.

Soonthon L.


 
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 11:53
English to Polish
+ ...
The BlueBoard is too restrictive, but… May 24, 2016

The BB is too restrictive, as you can't comment on the agency's approach to inquiries, recruitment, contracts etc., only actual individual jobs. However, for unprofessional conduct with regard to specific projects — which is the most important thing here — the BB is enough.

On the other hand, naming unprofessional agencies, apart from all sorts of venting about single occasions without broader reference would degenerate into naming and shaming for low rates, which is not somethi
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The BB is too restrictive, as you can't comment on the agency's approach to inquiries, recruitment, contracts etc., only actual individual jobs. However, for unprofessional conduct with regard to specific projects — which is the most important thing here — the BB is enough.

On the other hand, naming unprofessional agencies, apart from all sorts of venting about single occasions without broader reference would degenerate into naming and shaming for low rates, which is not something wholly unwanted but certainly something to be handled carefully.
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Lingua 5B
Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 11:53
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
BB restrictions. May 24, 2016

What is the rationale behind us not being allowed to add an entry before getting paid, even when we did some work (yes, test IS work). This can be easily proved, eg, forwarded emails. Therefore, why is this not possible? It doesn't even have to be low rating, eg, a 4:

The agency PM was very polite, professional, they sent an interesting piece as a test. After I sent the test, I never heard back from them again.

Why is it not possible to post this review truthful
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What is the rationale behind us not being allowed to add an entry before getting paid, even when we did some work (yes, test IS work). This can be easily proved, eg, forwarded emails. Therefore, why is this not possible? It doesn't even have to be low rating, eg, a 4:

The agency PM was very polite, professional, they sent an interesting piece as a test. After I sent the test, I never heard back from them again.

Why is it not possible to post this review truthful to its core, on BB?


[Edited at 2016-05-24 18:14 GMT]
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Jeff Whittaker
Jeff Whittaker  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:53
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Such sites already exist... May 24, 2016

For example:

http://translationethics.blogspot.se/p/blog-page.html

Marie Claude Etoc wrote:

PROZ paying members should be allowed to name unprofessional agencies who are clearly not following business ethics and proz professional ethics, standards and guidelines.



 


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PROZ members should be allowed to name unprofessional agencies






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