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Enough is enough
Thread poster: Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:34
Member (2004)
English to Italian
Of course... Aug 26, 2015

Gabriele Demuth wrote:

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:


We all know how much we need to take home every months... the problem is that we all have different needs and different situations... I have 4 kids and I need to make an x amount... somebody living on their own or even at home with their parents will have different needs... I have to charge 20, whilst others can charge 5... do I blame them? In a way, but I understand. It's a free market, after all. It's the same in all unregulated professions.


Well, I don't think a translator's rate should be set according to the number of children they have:), but rather according to their education, experience and specialities - I thought!?



my rates are based on my qualifications and my experience... but, the amount of work you are prepared to do every month depends on the individual needs... if I need x, I will work more or I will charge much higher rates... you don't do that? You don't set a target for your monthly/yearly income?

[Edited at 2015-08-26 12:16 GMT]


 
Bernhard Sulzer
Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 05:34
English to German
+ ...
More peanuts Aug 26, 2015

Charlie Bavington wrote:

Angela Rimmer wrote:

(God, I hate the word "peanuts".)


See also http://www.proz.com/forum/business_issues/287692-what_is_really_happening_in_the_business-page3.html#2445055

If an individual is incapable of expressing themselves on this issue without mentionning peanuts, I have decided of late their opinion is probably worth very little and I can save myself a great deal of time, especially over the course of a lifetime, by not reading such comments
Only "probably", natch, they could be a business and economics genius, in which case, my loss.


The word peanuts is used intentionally. It is supposed to imply something. I am actually capable of using other words like pittance, inadequate or scandalous remuneration, exploitative rates, etc. And I do. But I throw in the occasional peanuts out of disgust for what people accept as payment. There's a movement too.
Come to think of it, I could save myself a lot of time by not posting anymore.


 
Phil Hand
Phil Hand  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 17:34
Chinese to English
Definitely, no market fundamentalism here Aug 27, 2015

Charlie Bavington wrote:

...thinking about the issue in terms solely of supply and demand...is probably over-simplifying matters.

Utility (or perceived utility) and substitution effects, especially the negative impact of agency involvement in the supply chain, which would appear to drag down one and increase the other (usually, not necessarily universally), should also be considered.

Yep, I agree with all that. I think that some kind of supply/demand thinking is a better starting place than "I have skills which ought to earn me 50k" or "I want to make 100k as a translator". But markets are much weirder places than those two-dimensional graphs make them look; and your skills and needs determine which markets you are willing to and able to work in.

On the agencies, I reckon it's better for your sanity just to consider the agencies as your clients. Their relationships with their (end) clients are multifarious and bad for the soul.


 
Gabriele Demuth
Gabriele Demuth  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:34
English to German
Market thinking yes, but Aug 27, 2015

I feel that this is a very strange market.

Because if well educated and skilled people cannot make a reasonable living by charging adequate prices then they would surely go and do something else?

Goivanni: I have not been in this business for too long and I just try to do my best, I use the time I have available as best as I can, e.g. work (quality and rate, meaning as high as I think I can go), study for MA and family. If I have reached a target I don't stop, I will ju
... See more
I feel that this is a very strange market.

Because if well educated and skilled people cannot make a reasonable living by charging adequate prices then they would surely go and do something else?

Goivanni: I have not been in this business for too long and I just try to do my best, I use the time I have available as best as I can, e.g. work (quality and rate, meaning as high as I think I can go), study for MA and family. If I have reached a target I don't stop, I will just set another one.

[Edited at 2015-08-27 06:20 GMT]
Collapse


 
Charlie Bavington
Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:34
French to English
Rationally, yes Aug 27, 2015

Gabriele Demuth wrote:

I feel that this is a very strange market.

Because if well educated and skilled people cannot make a reasonable living by charging adequate prices then they would surely go and do something else?


Indeed, that would be the rational response. That would reduce the supply of translation skills and, according to the simple theory of supply & demand, do the rest of us a huge favour

Sadly, we do not all act rationally, economically speaking. To judge from forums and Twitter, and I daresay Facebook is similar but I don't use it, lots of translators "love" translating (if not they "love" words, or languages, or somesuch), or describe it as being paid to do their hobby. And I'm not immune; I am influenced by non-financial factors, not least the absence of line managers. Irrational behaviour distorts markets.

I was once in a discussion with a translator who was exasperated to the extent of saying she could earn more at KFC than she could as a translator. Logically, she should therefore have gone to work at KFC, which is what I replied. Turns out she didn't want to

Phil Hand wrote:
On the agencies, I reckon it's better for your sanity just to consider the agencies as your clients. Their relationships with their (end) clients are multifarious and bad for the soul.


Commercially, undoubtedly I just meant that when discussing the economics of the thing, they will sometimes respond differently. For example, if I wrote to all my direct clients today saying I was dropping rates by 2 cents, I would expect little to no change in workload. If I did the same to my agencies, I would expect to see more work offered almost immediately. If I wrote to both sets of clients (agencies & direct) with a price rise, I would expect an immediate effect on agency volume, and possibly a long-term effect with some but not all direct clients.

So while "everybody knows" lower prices equal more demand, it ain't necessarily so. Not all demand is price sensitive and not all types of demand are equally sensitive in both directions.

(Probably a bit late in life to realise I find this kind of thing arguably more interesting than actually translating these days....!)


[Edited at 2015-08-27 10:01 GMT]


 
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:34
Member (2004)
English to Italian
I don't stop either... Aug 27, 2015

Gabriele Demuth wrote:

Goivanni: I have not been in this business for too long and I just try to do my best, I use the time I have available as best as I can, e.g. work (quality and rate, meaning as high as I think I can go), study for MA and family. If I have reached a target I don't stop, I will just set another one.

[Edited at 2015-08-27 06:20 GMT]


but my goal is to reach my target first... I don't go on holiday when I accomplish that, on the contrary...


 
Charlie Bavington
Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:34
French to English
One and the same Aug 27, 2015

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:

but my goal is to reach my target first... I don't go on holiday when I accomplish that, on the contrary...


Going on holiday IS my target....


 
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:34
Member (2004)
English to Italian
I wish... Aug 27, 2015

Charlie Bavington wrote:

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:

but my goal is to reach my target first... I don't go on holiday when I accomplish that, on the contrary...


Going on holiday IS my target....


You are a lucky man... or maybe didn't go overboard with children...


 
Gabriele Demuth
Gabriele Demuth  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:34
English to German
Yes, I love translating, but Aug 27, 2015

Charlie Bavington wrote:

Sadly, we do not all act rationally, economically speaking. To judge from forums and Twitter, and I daresay Facebook is similar but I don't use it, lots of translators "love" translating (if not they "love" words, or languages, or somesuch), or describe it as being paid to do their hobby. And I'm not immune; I am influenced by non-financial factors, not least the absence of line managers. Irrational behaviour distorts markets.

I was once in a discussion with a translator who was exasperated to the extent of saying she could earn more at KFC than she could as a translator. Logically, she should therefore have gone to work at KFC, which is what I replied. Turns out she didn't want to



most people don't live in a bubble of their own.

Working at KFC wouldn't appeal to me either, but earning less than at KFC would mean that my family suffers, I would have to rely on state handouts. This is irresponsible and unfair to everyone around me and I wouldn't like it either - so economics can't be ignored.

... or they rely on someone else who finances their indulgence.

[Edited at 2015-08-27 12:47 GMT]


 
Gabriele Demuth
Gabriele Demuth  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:34
English to German
Yes, Aug 27, 2015

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:

You are a lucky man... or maybe didn't go overboard with children...


you should never let them outnumber you!

[Edited at 2015-08-27 13:04 GMT]


 
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:34
Member (2004)
English to Italian
wisdom... Aug 27, 2015

Gabriele Demuth wrote:

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:

You are a lucky man... or maybe didn't go overboard with children...


you should never let them outnumber you!

[Edited at 2015-08-27 13:04 GMT]




 
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