Proofreading rate vs quality text
Thread poster: bella_nox
bella_nox
bella_nox
Italy
Italian to English
+ ...
Dec 1, 2020

Hi,

I accepted a proofreading job consisting of 12 chapters written by a non-native English speaker. Having asked for a sample chapter, I established a rate of 2 euros per 150 words or 25 euros an hour, which came to 1200 euros for the entire job.

However, I am now going through the 5th chapter and the quality of the text has gone down drastically so that I am having to rewrite entire sections and taking much longer to complete the work.

Would you point t
... See more
Hi,

I accepted a proofreading job consisting of 12 chapters written by a non-native English speaker. Having asked for a sample chapter, I established a rate of 2 euros per 150 words or 25 euros an hour, which came to 1200 euros for the entire job.

However, I am now going through the 5th chapter and the quality of the text has gone down drastically so that I am having to rewrite entire sections and taking much longer to complete the work.

Would you point this out to the commissioner and ask that the budget be raised? I'm not sure what the professional thing to do is. We negotiated via email, there is no contract other than verbal.

I'd appreciate any advice, as in the past I've let this sort of thing slide but don't want to do the industry that disservice anymore.

Thanks!

B

[Edited at 2020-12-01 15:04 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-12-01 20:24 GMT]
Collapse


 
Tina Vonhof (X)
Tina Vonhof (X)
Canada
Local time: 23:13
Dutch to English
+ ...
Proofreading vs editing Dec 1, 2020

bella_nox wrote:

Hi,

I accepted a proofreading job consisting of 12 chapters written by a non-native English speaker. Having asked for a sample chapter, I established a rate of 2 euros per 250 words or 25 euros an hour, which came to 1200 euros for the entire job.

However, I am now going through the 5th chapter and the quality of the text has gone down drastically so that I am having to rewrite entire sections and taking much longer to complete the work.

Would you point this out to the commissioner and ask that the budget be raised? I'm not sure what the professional thing to do is. We negotiated via email, there is no contract other than verbal.

I'd appreciate any advice, as in the past I've let this sort of thing slide but don't want to do the industry that disservice anymore.

Thanks!

B

[Edited at 2020-12-01 15:04 GMT]


Clients often ask for proofreading instead of editing because they don't know the difference. This is an editing job. Your idea of charging 25 euros an hour was a good one but unfortunately you underestimated how much you could do in an hour. After this experience, it will hopefully never happen to you again.

I don't usually give the client a break-down, I say, "XX per hour and I think I'm going to need about yy hours". Whenever feasible, I convert that to a per page rate because that is a more concrete way for the client to look at it.

Since you are not even half way, I think you could contact the client, apologize for having underestimated, and revise your quote. Especially if this is a document that will be published, you can point out how important it is to get it right, etc. etc. At this stage I don't think you can ask what the job is really worth, only raise it to a slightly more reasonable amount. Don't be surprised, and don't argue, if the client refuses.


Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
 
bella_nox
bella_nox
Italy
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Great advice Dec 1, 2020

Thank you very much, Tina, that is very helpful! I will follow your advice. It's an English Literature text book, so I should say it is very important that they get it right! A pleasure to revise my Lit history, but frustrating to think Italian school children cannot rely on better authorship.

I think my estimate was correct given the sample chapter I was provided. The chapters are coming through gradually, so perhaps I need to establish a method for this sort of job from no
... See more
Thank you very much, Tina, that is very helpful! I will follow your advice. It's an English Literature text book, so I should say it is very important that they get it right! A pleasure to revise my Lit history, but frustrating to think Italian school children cannot rely on better authorship.

I think my estimate was correct given the sample chapter I was provided. The chapters are coming through gradually, so perhaps I need to establish a method for this sort of job from now on, where I can make sure I can revise that initial estimate of how long it'll take me. The sudden sloppiness is a bit of a curve ball they've thrown at me - I'm not sure if it's a different author or the same one who didn't bother revising their translation this time around.

Thank you for your time.

[Edited at 2020-12-01 16:52 GMT]
Collapse


 
Joakim Braun
Joakim Braun  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 06:13
German to Swedish
+ ...
Rate Dec 1, 2020

Tina Vonhof wrote:

Your idea of charging 25 euros an hour was a good one


No.


 
Tina Vonhof (X)
Tina Vonhof (X)
Canada
Local time: 23:13
Dutch to English
+ ...
NO? Dec 1, 2020

Joakim Braun wrote:

Tina Vonhof wrote:

Your idea of charging 25 euros an hour was a good one


No.


Just saying No doesn't help. What would you do then?


bella_nox
Kay Denney
Alex Ossa
 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 05:13
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
EUR 0.008 per word for non-native English? Whoops! Dec 1, 2020

bella_nox wrote:
I accepted a proofreading job consisting of 12 chapters written by a non-native English speaker. Having asked for a sample chapter, I established a rate of 2 euros per 250 words or 25 euros an hour, which came to 1200 euros for the entire job.

However, I am now going through the 5th chapter and the quality of the text has gone down drastically so that I am having to rewrite entire sections and taking much longer to complete the work.

At that price, you've tied yourself in to producing over 3,000 words an hour. I can do that when I'm proofreading professionally written native English. Not for an amateur native English speaker. And most certainly not for a non-native speaker, unless of course their English was perfect.

As someone has said, you've accepted an editing job. It's inadvisable to ever price those per word as the quality is usually variable and almost always deteriorates. From my personal experience, any text where I can't process 750 words in an hour is better rejected as being uneditable. Non-native English most often falls between 750 and 1500 words per hour. I personally quote an expected price and a maximum of at least a third higher. Then I note my actual time spend and invoice rounded up to the nearest quarter hour, up to the maximum. I never renegotiate -- it isn't professional. If I've messed up my quote, I pay the penalty -- and I avoid doing it again!


Walter Landesman
Joe France
Josephine Cassar
Angus Stewart
Rachel Waddington
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Dan Lucas
 
bella_nox
bella_nox
Italy
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
whoops indeed! it should have been 150 words Dec 1, 2020

Thank you Sheila, I appreciate your suggestions, and am curious about your rates for proofreading and editing.

Like I said, the original sample I was given was significantly better than what I've been given in the last round, to the point that I really was able to do a chapter a day (hence my original estimate). I suspect this is either a different author, or that a first round of editing hasn't been done for this file, as it was perhaps for the others.

For this reaso
... See more
Thank you Sheila, I appreciate your suggestions, and am curious about your rates for proofreading and editing.

Like I said, the original sample I was given was significantly better than what I've been given in the last round, to the point that I really was able to do a chapter a day (hence my original estimate). I suspect this is either a different author, or that a first round of editing hasn't been done for this file, as it was perhaps for the others.

For this reason I feel justified in pointing out this was not part of the agreement: I'm not changing my rate, but rather they've changed the product they're giving me.

Typo! it's 150 words, it came to 13c per word in my calculations, but I switched off proofreading mode earlier when I wrote the post. I've edited it now so as to not mislead future onlookers. I should also add that, being an English literature text book, there are large chunks of extracts that do not need proofreading - much less editing - and I took this into account in the rates I quoted.

But yes, I agree that it was unwise to specify the price per word. I'm finding dealing with Italian clients can be very tricky at times.



[Edited at 2020-12-01 20:26 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-12-01 20:28 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-12-01 21:53 GMT]
Collapse


 
Trevino Translations (X)
Trevino Translations (X)
France
Local time: 06:13
French to English
+ ...
You can still talk to your client... Dec 1, 2020

...I'm not sure what the professional thing to do is. We negotiated via email, there is no contract other than verbal.

B

[Edited at 2020-12-01 15:04 GMT] [/quote]


Hello,

Think about getting a written quote signed by any new clients before accepting a job. Set out your terms/conditions clearly. (See the info at the SFT website re Conditions générales de prestation de services recommandées par la SFT - travaux de traduction.)

... See more
...I'm not sure what the professional thing to do is. We negotiated via email, there is no contract other than verbal.

B

[Edited at 2020-12-01 15:04 GMT] [/quote]


Hello,

Think about getting a written quote signed by any new clients before accepting a job. Set out your terms/conditions clearly. (See the info at the SFT website re Conditions générales de prestation de services recommandées par la SFT - travaux de traduction.)

You could have argued for an extra charge if you'd had a contract that explained that additional charges might be necessary as you had not seen the entire manuscript, for example.



Even without a written contract, I'm not sure I agree that you should just suffer through it all...that you made a quote and too bad for you. Why not ask your client to please further edit their own writing before sending it on to you? Gently explain that you simply cannot re-write the text for them, that you are simply a translator. Or offer to do the editing but firmly explain you would expect to be paid for the work in addition to the translation. The client is the writer, not you, after all. He/she should be wanting to make YOUR job as easy as possible.

Best of luck!
Collapse


bella_nox
 
Victoria Britten
Victoria Britten  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 06:13
French to English
+ ...
It may or may not be a risk worth taking Dec 1, 2020

Sheila Wilson wrote:

I never renegotiate -- it isn't professional. If I've messed up my quote, I pay the penalty -- and I avoid doing it again!


I don't entirely agree. Renegotiating is certainly risky, and I would say you need to weigh up how likely you are to suffer repercussions if your client is not happy about it and spreads the word to other (seriously) potential clients that you're "fussy". However, they presented a job in a misleading way and I would say pointing that out isn't unprofessional (if it's done in a very professional way!).

I do have to add, if you want to avoid doing the industry (and yourself) a disservice: raise your editing rates!


bella_nox
 
bella_nox
bella_nox
Italy
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Point taken! Dec 1, 2020

Thank you Sheila and Victoria. It’s hard starting out in Italy, I find this work is rarely valued correctly. But I will be more demanding in future.

 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 05:13
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Client error/fault excepted Dec 1, 2020

Victoria Britten wrote:

Sheila Wilson wrote:

I never renegotiate -- it isn't professional. If I've messed up my quote, I pay the penalty -- and I avoid doing it again!


I don't entirely agree. Renegotiating is certainly risky, and I would say you need to weigh up how likely you are to suffer repercussions if your client is not happy about it and spreads the word to other (seriously) potential clients that you're "fussy". However, they presented a job in a misleading way and I would say pointing that out isn't unprofessional (if it's done in a very professional way!).

I didn't get the impression that the client had misled the poster. If that's the case then there would definitely be grounds for renegotiation, I agree.


Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 05:13
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Emails establish a valid contract Dec 2, 2020

bella_nox wrote:
We negotiated via email, there is no contract other than verbal.

There's nothing verbal about emails. They set out the details of the negotiations in black and white for both parties to see. If the purchasing party then decides to go ahead and ask you to do the work, you have a contract. And it's worth just as much in a European court of law as one that's full of "whereas" and "heretofore" clauses and signed by both parties.


bella_nox
Christine Andersen
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Alex Ossa
Michele Fauble
 
Alex Ossa
Alex Ossa  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 02:13
Member (2017)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Client misled you (possibly unintentionally) with sample quality Dec 2, 2020

I agree with almost everything Sheila has said, including the contract thing, so I won't repeat any of that. The only way I differ from her opinion is regarding the renegotiation. While it is true that it is unprofessional to change the price once negotiated, I would suggest that that is only the case if you have revised the whole text first. So, for example, my academic clients send me a paper that I quote upon. If I then realise it was more work than I had previously estimated, that is my prob... See more
I agree with almost everything Sheila has said, including the contract thing, so I won't repeat any of that. The only way I differ from her opinion is regarding the renegotiation. While it is true that it is unprofessional to change the price once negotiated, I would suggest that that is only the case if you have revised the whole text first. So, for example, my academic clients send me a paper that I quote upon. If I then realise it was more work than I had previously estimated, that is my problem, not the client's.

*However* in your case, you received a sample and quoted upon the quality of that sample. If the quality of the rest of that text falls below that of the sample (significantly), then I think it is entirely reasonable to renegotiate because the client is changing the quantity of work that they'd hired you to do (or, not respecting the contract agreed in the emails).

I would reach out to the client and gently explain just how much of the text is significantly poorer than the sample you'd received. Offer to continue to edit at a revised price (or maybe even retranslate it, if it's that bad). And be prepared for the client to not want to do either. Then you have a decision to make. You can either bill the client for what you have done and leave it at that (and lose that client - plus they might not want to pay), or do the work anyway.

Always be precise about the quality of work you are quoting for proofreading or editing and make a disclaimer that qualities different to that of the sample are subject to price revisions.

[Edited at 2020-12-02 15:00 GMT]
Collapse


 
Adieu
Adieu  Identity Verified
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
Proofing a very dirty translation Jan 7, 2021

...is pretty much the same thing as translating via CAT tool with MT as your starting point. Maybe worse, if they don't provide the original text or you don't have a tool to sync em up conveniently side by side.

Charge accordingly.

PS in the case of editing a bad literary text, the argument can be made for calling it "rewriting/copywriting" or even "ghostwriting" instead. If so, you might actually want to charge MORE than your typical translation rate.

[Edited at
... See more
...is pretty much the same thing as translating via CAT tool with MT as your starting point. Maybe worse, if they don't provide the original text or you don't have a tool to sync em up conveniently side by side.

Charge accordingly.

PS in the case of editing a bad literary text, the argument can be made for calling it "rewriting/copywriting" or even "ghostwriting" instead. If so, you might actually want to charge MORE than your typical translation rate.

[Edited at 2021-01-07 05:54 GMT]

[Edited at 2021-01-07 05:55 GMT]
Collapse


 


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Proofreading rate vs quality text







CafeTran Espresso
You've never met a CAT tool this clever!

Translate faster & easier, using a sophisticated CAT tool built by a translator / developer. Accept jobs from clients who use Trados, MemoQ, Wordfast & major CAT tools. Download and start using CafeTran Espresso -- for free

Buy now! »
Trados Studio 2022 Freelance
The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.

Designed with your feedback in mind, Trados Studio 2022 delivers an unrivalled, powerful desktop and cloud solution, empowering you to work in the most efficient and cost-effective way.

More info »