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Client asking for a discount
Thread poster: Nicholas Isard
Nicholas Isard
Nicholas Isard  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 09:48
Member (2020)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Mar 26, 2021

Hi everyone,

So I was wondering if you had any opinions on this. I've been working with an end client for a while now doing medical translations (presentations on clinical cases, drugs, etc.). It had been a steady flow of work for about 2 months, and then one evening the client sent through about 10k and asked when I could do it by, to which I replied about a week. The next day, the owner of the company was on the phone saying they needed it for Friday (this was Thursday morning), t
... See more
Hi everyone,

So I was wondering if you had any opinions on this. I've been working with an end client for a while now doing medical translations (presentations on clinical cases, drugs, etc.). It had been a steady flow of work for about 2 months, and then one evening the client sent through about 10k and asked when I could do it by, to which I replied about a week. The next day, the owner of the company was on the phone saying they needed it for Friday (this was Thursday morning), to which I replied impossible, and said Monday EOB (and had to work non stop over the weekend) and that I would have to increase the rate from €0.08 to €0.10. He said OK, but in the future I need a discount for volume as I have loads of similar files to send your way, to which I replied, we could discuss it once this was finished. Two more rush jobs came in and I just didn't have the chance to think about the discount, so continuing applying that rate. I should point out that more and more is coming up in the TM and there are repetitions - all of which I have charged full price for, as it all has to be checked and double-checked.

Then on Wednesday evening he sent 17k through, of which 9k were new words according to Trados. I said I could do that in about a week (the file also had formatting issues that needs sorting before starting), and they reply saying we have a discount pending and that they're giving it to another agency they are working with, and that we wants to talk today.

For this client, I've produced a full glossary and a style guide, and check all the texts twice, so feel like I am offering them good value for money.

Any ideas on how to proceed? I'm really reluctant to offer discounts for repetitions and TM leverage, as I feel it would be a slippery slope on what is already a low rate.

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Best,
Nick
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Sadek_A
Sadek_A  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:48
English to Arabic
+ ...
Never understood paying for a pair when both shoes are identical! Mar 26, 2021

Also, it's always silly paying for the whole KG when all oranges are fuzzy matching!
Nicholas Isard wrote:
Any ideas on how to proceed?

R-a-m-ó-n

That lenses-stacking (green & blue, so far), can-opener-packing, veg-shopper-smacking, Tourist-orange-tracking SOB (Son Of a Beauty; well, he has to be, look at his eyes) will sort it out for you.

------------

Seriously though, your first mistake was handing out specialist terminology at anything less than $0.15/w. Once they get it from you, they will be ever after ROIing the life out of it, and that's what they did in "giving it to another agency they are working with". The heavy lifting part was done already.

Give them some time to miss you! There will certainly be some NEW heavy lifting in the future!


 
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Nikki Scott-Despaigne  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:48
French to English
Quick question Mar 26, 2021

In your post, you refer to this end-client saying they will have to give it to "another agency" and not "an agency". Does this mean you are acting as an agent here, or are you the one doing the work directly?

Nicholas Isard
Baran Keki
 
Nicholas Isard
Nicholas Isard  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 09:48
Member (2020)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Agency Mar 26, 2021

Apologies, I meant, give it to an agency they are working with.

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
 
Sadek_A
Sadek_A  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:48
English to Arabic
+ ...
..... Mar 26, 2021

Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:
-"another agency" and not "an agency"
Does this mean you are acting as an agent here, or are you the one doing the work directly?

Valid question.
But, for the benefit of the doubt, it could've been meant as 'another agency' in relation to them [the end-client] being an agency themselves!
Nicholas Isard wrote:
been working with an end client............next day, the owner of the company was on the phone saying they needed it


[Edited at 2021-03-27 05:36 GMT]


 
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Nikki Scott-Despaigne  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:48
French to English
Volumes, discount, tools and shifting goalposts Mar 26, 2021

The volume you are being asked to quote for needs to be established unequivocally before you accept the job. Whatever tools you use, unless specified in the agreement, is your business. Once those elements have been agreed upon, then you and your client know the basis upon which you are calculating your quote in terms of time and cost. If your client starts playing around with volume post-agreement, time and/or cost will inevitably be affected. It sounds like this person has a tendency to shifts... See more
The volume you are being asked to quote for needs to be established unequivocally before you accept the job. Whatever tools you use, unless specified in the agreement, is your business. Once those elements have been agreed upon, then you and your client know the basis upon which you are calculating your quote in terms of time and cost. If your client starts playing around with volume post-agreement, time and/or cost will inevitably be affected. It sounds like this person has a tendency to shifts goalposts. You don't need to play hard-to-get, but if the client thinks you're a soft touch, then you may paint yourself into a corner. Each of the parties to a business proposition has to find his/her interest in the agreement. If not, it's a bad deal. Can you work all the time for less? Do you want to be working all the hours for less and less? From time to time, pushing hard is okay. If it's every day, it's not a life.

It sounds like this client is putting the pressure on, waving big volumes at you in the hope to get a discount. One hard fact is that the time it takes will be the same whatever the price. You are not selling the last few potatoes in the bottom of a crate! It can be exciting to get big volumes of work. However, it can easily put you in a tricky position:

- dependence. The day the client walks, you are left with your mouth open and no clients.
- working harder for less. Does this make business sense? Your client will argue the "more" is in the amount of work he will be giving you. So what's your guarantee he will do so? Don't forget that you are not an employee. The day the client decides to go elsewhere, he owes you nothing more than the payment for the work already done.
- unbalanced agreement. If you feel that you are being pushed into a vulnerable position, you probably are.

I would hold my ground, mention the added value you are providing and that you are already going above and beyond. More would not make business sense for you and as a businessman, he should understand that. A proposition of volume is exciting but the thought that you might lose the client should not make you lose your common sense.
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Ian Mansbridge
Philippe Etienne
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matt robinson
matt robinson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 09:48
Member (2010)
Spanish to English
Your call but... Mar 26, 2021

If there is a lot of work coming in from this client and your TM is filling up nicely with useful material, then in your position I would hesitate before risking losing the client. A 17K document which is practically half done (9K new words), for which to date you would have charged full rate for every word, gives you quite a lot of negotiating room. A small discount on repetitions could satisfy the client, without forcing their hand. You will still be benefiting from the investment you made in... See more
If there is a lot of work coming in from this client and your TM is filling up nicely with useful material, then in your position I would hesitate before risking losing the client. A 17K document which is practically half done (9K new words), for which to date you would have charged full rate for every word, gives you quite a lot of negotiating room. A small discount on repetitions could satisfy the client, without forcing their hand. You will still be benefiting from the investment you made in the TM software (as should be the case) while being in a position to provide something that may even strengthen the business relationship.Collapse


Aakash5555
Anna Gorska
 
Philippe Etienne
Philippe Etienne  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 09:48
Member
English to French
Underselling yourself Mar 26, 2021

Very sorry to hear about this situation. I find this a very toxic relationship and it must be very upsetting to have customers like this.

My feeling is that charging an end client at the rate you disclose for medical translations opens the door to their demanding discounts for volumes (is an assignment that keeps you busy 5 days a "volume"?), discounts for similarities, payment at 3 months, free glossary building, etc. This is where the slippery slope starts.

The tactic
... See more
Very sorry to hear about this situation. I find this a very toxic relationship and it must be very upsetting to have customers like this.

My feeling is that charging an end client at the rate you disclose for medical translations opens the door to their demanding discounts for volumes (is an assignment that keeps you busy 5 days a "volume"?), discounts for similarities, payment at 3 months, free glossary building, etc. This is where the slippery slope starts.

The tactics of threatening to change suppliers is a classic, although I'm not sure how the competitor agency could provide the kind of service you offer at a similar rate. Or perhaps they can pass on this kind of jobs to a translator who has to undersell him-/herself at 0.03 and putting up with all sorts of abuse from the agency.

Your end client bullies you because they think you're in a weak position. Are you? How much of your overall turnover do they account for? How critical is it for your business to keep them at all cost? There's no loyalty or friendship in business (exceptions are there to confirm the rule), and a client threatening you to change providers after 2 months certainly doesn't deserve any favour.

My advice would be to shift the issue and figure out a nice way to announce them that you will shortly be doubling or tripling your rates, instate minimum fees and apply surcharges for weekend/night work so that you can at least recover some space for yourself: you're getting married, your elderly parents need expensive treatment, you need a larger home to work efficiently, you're opening an animal refuge...

Even if you lose them, I have the impression it will be good for your mental health in the long term (being appreciated for your efforts and feeling fairly paid is good for the mind and body).

All this meant very sympathetically. A few years after starting, I had to clear up my agency customer base from a few players trying to bring me into this toxic spiral (word rate increase rejected, payment terms lengthened, ultra-tight deadlines, never a thank you, additional free feedback, etc.).

Philippe

[Edited at 2021-03-26 10:57 GMT]
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Marcela Mestre
Baran Keki
Christel Zipfel
Tina Vonhof (X)
Christine Andersen
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Sandra & Kenneth Grossman
 
gayd (X)
gayd (X)
Very low rate already Mar 26, 2021

0.08-0.10 EUR for an end client? Is that it?

[Modifié le 2021-03-26 12:50 GMT]


Christel Zipfel
Marcela Mestre
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Tina Vonhof (X)
Philippe Etienne
Alison Jenner
 
Richard Purdom
Richard Purdom  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 08:48
Dutch to English
+ ...
Who's TM? Mar 26, 2021

If the reps are from the client's TM, and they don't want to pay, they should lock the segments and you don't have to check them.
If it's your TM, you must have already checked it, so obviously they want a discount.

After that I suppose it's up to you to give a discount for work you don't have to do, or wait for them to give it to someone else who will negotiate a discount. That's an inevitable consequence of the digital transformation which everybody benefits from eventually
... See more
If the reps are from the client's TM, and they don't want to pay, they should lock the segments and you don't have to check them.
If it's your TM, you must have already checked it, so obviously they want a discount.

After that I suppose it's up to you to give a discount for work you don't have to do, or wait for them to give it to someone else who will negotiate a discount. That's an inevitable consequence of the digital transformation which everybody benefits from eventually.
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Nicholas Isard
Nicholas Isard  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 09:48
Member (2020)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
CAT Mar 26, 2021

I suppose the problem here is that it's difficult to offer any kind of discount, for volume or TM leverage, when I don't know when they will be sending the following texts, the deadlines that will be involved, etc. Furthermore, I do feel that the rate is already on the low side and really doesn't warrant discounts for anything. Does that sound unreasonable?

Christine Andersen
Philip Lees
 
Fiona Grace Peterson
Fiona Grace Peterson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 09:48
Italian to English
Refuse Mar 26, 2021

I would quite simply refuse. I would remind the agency of the work you have done for them and the value you bring, and that your rates are established on the basis of very specific criteria (i.e. you've worked out what your services are worth, and what you need to charge based on all your various costs and overheads). Say also that this is the rate you have set as a professional, and that it wouldn't make financial sense for you to charge less.

Simply state the facts.

... See more
I would quite simply refuse. I would remind the agency of the work you have done for them and the value you bring, and that your rates are established on the basis of very specific criteria (i.e. you've worked out what your services are worth, and what you need to charge based on all your various costs and overheads). Say also that this is the rate you have set as a professional, and that it wouldn't make financial sense for you to charge less.

Simply state the facts.

Obviously it's your translation business, and only you know how much you need this client and whether you can afford to lose them.
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Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Philippe Etienne
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Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Calling Tom in London... Mar 26, 2021


Who’s TM?


Wherese Tom when you need him?

OP: I just tell them “discount” isn’t in my dictionary. They soon learn.


Rachel Fell
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
 
Sadek_A
Sadek_A  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:48
English to Arabic
+ ...
..... Mar 26, 2021

Chris S wrote:
Wherese Tom when you need him?

SAB Road with non TRNT (Thoroughbred Racing Northern Territory [explanation included especially for you; you know who you are!]) action round.

[Edited at 2021-03-26 17:03 GMT]


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:48
Member (2005)
Chinese to English
?? Mar 26, 2021

Nicholas Isard wrote:

Hi everyone,

So I was wondering if you had any opinions on this. I've been working with an end client for a while now doing medical translations (presentations on clinical cases, drugs, etc.). It had been a steady flow of work for about 2 months, and then one evening the client sent through about 10k and asked when I could do it by, to which I replied about a week. The next day, the owner of the company was on the phone saying they needed it for Friday (this was Thursday morning), to which I replied impossible, and said Monday EOB (and had to work non stop over the weekend) and that I would have to increase the rate from €0.08 to €0.10.

Nick


Most translation agencies charge their end clients about $0.30 per word for translating clinical trial materials, and I have seen $0.50 per word as the price listed on the website of at least one agency.


 
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