| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | If you don't know what your pricing should be - look at the pricing of one of the big agencies Thread poster: TTilch
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DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
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| Deworming: Who's in charge--a blate cat, a proud mouse, or a profiteer? | Feb 26, 2019 |
Tom, neither a particular agency can be taken to be representative of anything, nor any translator can represent this so-called bilateral industry averages, so what? It has little to do with sampling.
(1) As far as there're end clients who readily pay $.35+/word,
(2) Why it's allegedly ok for agencies to ask a high price upfront* and charge clients $100+ for extra services,
(3) - while - demanding free* extra services and paying... See more Tom, neither a particular agency can be taken to be representative of anything, nor any translator can represent this so-called bilateral industry averages, so what? It has little to do with sampling.
(1) As far as there're end clients who readily pay $.35+/word,
(2) Why it's allegedly ok for agencies to ask a high price upfront* and charge clients $100+ for extra services,
(3) - while - demanding free* extra services and paying freelancers puny $.005-$.10/word [minus "discounts"] after 30-60-90+ days since the delivery,
(4) - but - freelance translators should never ask some $.35+/word, losing about 80%?
Name just one good reason, calling things by their right--and without lame costs excuses.
I'm glad that working with direct clients I have no parasite nothing to do with greedy and unworthy middlemen. Of course, I know the biz value of my translation/interpreting and provide not a mere "translation", but a selling text, a benefit, or a solution--that's why my rates are three-five times higher and on my terms.
Self-sufficiency, please. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Thanks Tanja - very useful | Feb 26, 2019 |
TTilch wrote: Hi all, Here you can get a glance at the pricing scale of one of the big agencies: https://ondemand.lionbridge.com/ (then click on the squares for the various categories, e.g. document translation) For 12-hour turnaround times, for example, the pricing is USD 0.50 per word. This may give you an idea about what you should charge yourself as a freelancer.  Best, Tanja
Thanks Tanja! Very useful indeed. I am myself re-targeting the private sector after a long period of exclusive collaboration with UN organizations, so this helps a lot!
| | | | | USD 0.3-0.5 per word seems a good price | Feb 27, 2019 |
...considering that we get paid RMB 0.5 per word for normal article.
| | | | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:39
Serbian to English
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| You still can compare | Feb 27, 2019 |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:
It is only helpful to compare like with like. Therefore, the reality of any comparison can only be helpful if comparing
- two agencies
- two self-employed individuals
- two agencies or two self-employed individuals working:
* in the same country
* with the same legal set-up
* working in the same language pair
* working in the same field
* with the same level of skill and experience
* with the same level of sales (money received from clients)
* with the same level of income (money available once all charges, taxes (professional and private) have been deducted
* with the same personal status (age, marital status, family set-up, etc.).
All of the above, and more, influence what can be charged (sales) and what level of "income" (amount left over once everything has been deducted) will be available.
Conclusion:
- as these criteria are never identical for an agency and for a freelancer, they cannot and should not be compared;
- the amount agency A pays its freelancers is not the amount it charges its clients;
- using the amount agency A pays its freelancers is of no use in assisting freelancers seeking to determine how much to charge their clients.
[Edited at 2019-02-23 12:36 GMT]
You still can compare any agency with any translator AS LONG AS you take into account ALL elements of revenues and costs.
You can (***and should!***) make comparisons between "not like-for-likes" for example a self-employed translator and a translator that is a full time employee - but you have to do it in way that you first make figures comparable.
Which means that for an employee you have to take into account ALL the costs for the employer - not only the gross ANNUAL salary (paid even during holidays and days off!), but also all the taxes/pension contributions that the employer has to pay (if any - in UK employer's contribution to NI - that doesn't figure in the gross salary) and also all the connected admin costs (a proportion of the costs of HR and and accounting departments - recruiting people and paying them is not done for free). Only when you have that total annual amount (for a "regular/normal" number of hours) you can compare it with the translator's annual output, and get a meaningful figure (the cost per hour of effective work, or per page) to compare with the situation of a self-employed translator. I had more than once to patiently explain these "basics" to people "shocked" by my tariffs, who after these calculations were done were left out of arguments - what I was asking was fairly comparable to what you would pay anyone of comparable qualifications.
If Uber drivers were capable of these calculations, they wouldn't even bother applying, let alone working at loss. Any parallels with some translators absolutely accidental.
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| same question as before | Feb 28, 2019 |
Why was the recommendation to look at the price of a big agency?
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Maxi Schwarz wrote:
Why was the recommendation to look at the price of a big agency?
Why not?
It's as good an illustration as any of how poorly many translators are paid.
| | | | DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
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| Proof by contradiction: A → B vs A → x → B | Feb 28, 2019 |
Maxi, why should translators be almost happy with sorry $.001-$.10/word when end clients are ready to pay a fair price of $.35+/word to have their jobs done?
I would paraphrase your question:Why do so many decent translators go low and [unwittingly?] agree to lose over 85% of the gains?
[Besides low self-esteem and lack of biz awareness] What really makes freelancers go needy working for middlemen (from one-man agencies to several go-betweens/brokers) at wholesale* prices, deducting "repetition/fuzzy discounts"? A popular fad.
Ain't a real businessperson to assess risks and decide what is right and better for his/her biz, including pricing?
(1) The client is ready to pay $.35+/word,
(2) the translator is ready to provide the translation at least of the same quality for the price.
(3) No unnecessary fuss.
P.S. There're many translators charging fair rates of $.35+/w and some of them are working not for, but with agencies too.
| | | | | Chris' answer to mine | Mar 3, 2019 |
Chris S wrote: Maxi Schwarz wrote:
Why was the recommendation to look at the price of a big agency? Why not? It's as good an illustration as any of how poorly many translators are paid.
OK, I'm confused. The title is advising that in order to know how much to charge, we should look at big agencies, I assume to determine our own fees. I asked why big agencies in particular. You are telling me about many translators "being paid" (passive) poorly,which works if you're an employee, but not if you set your own prices. Since the article talks about knowing what one's prices should be, then I take it to be about setting one's own prices.
The OP also talks of one particular big company: I seem to remember that this company is notorious for wanting to pay low fees. So if it is actually about not accepting low fees, because they charge high fees, then it would help for the title to be different. Otherwise it is confusing.
The reason why I wondered about the choice, for determining our own fees, is that large companies will have a different set of circumstances. For example, I noticed that for larger projects over a shorter period of time, their prices jumped. To make this happen,you will have to recruit several translators, several proofreaders, and coordinate that the completed project is consistent in terminology, style etc. That involves a lot of administration. I don't have any parallels in my work. i do not hire other people, and don't have to administrate such things. Therefore my price structure cannot be determined by things that they do, and I don't do.
That was the reason for my question.
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| Not my question - (DZiW) | Mar 3, 2019 |
DZiW wrote: Maxi, why should translators be almost happy with sorry $.001-$.10/word when end clients are ready to pay a fair price of $.35+/word to have their jobs done? I would paraphrase your question: Why do so many decent translators go low and [unwittingly?] agree to lose over 85% of the gains? P.S. There're many translators charging fair rates of $.35+/w and some of them are working not for, but with agencies too.
I saw the title to be about determining our fees. I did not understand why it was suggested that we look at BIG agencies, if one looks at agencies at all, for determining our fees. It was never explained in the opening post why big agencies, so I asked.
You are talking about something way different: translators being happy with low fees (which I guess they have been persuaded they have to charge). An elephant in the room is that there seems to be a pervasive mentality of seeing oneself as employees who are told by their customers (called "outsourcers" to mask the fact of being customers; or "lsp's" when the provider of language services is actually the translator!). If we get rid of that idea, we're back to "How much should I charge, and how do I determine that?" Which is what I thought the question was.
The charge of 0.35 seems to be for a service that I don't provide, because it would require a team of several translators, which I can't and won't put together. The 0.20 is close to my own minimum fee of 0.18. I think that I did get contacted by that particular company a few times. They always found my fees "too high" and that was the end of that.
My question remains: For determining our own fees, if we are looking at translation companies, why large companies in particular? Why should "large company" be the determining factor?
| | | | | Who determines fees? | Mar 3, 2019 |
DZiW wrote:
Tom, neither a particular agency can be taken to be representative of anything, nor any translator can represent this so-called bilateral industry averages, so what? It has little to do with sampling.
(1) As far as there're end clients who readily pay $.35+/word,
(2) Why it's allegedly ok for agencies to ask a high price upfront* and charge clients $100+ for extra services,
(3) - while - demanding free* extra services and paying freelancers puny $.005-$.10/word [minus "discounts"] after 30-60-90+ days since the delivery,
(4) - but - freelance translators should never ask some $.35+/word, losing about 80%?
I'm going by the $0.20 and maybe to $0.25 but not $0.35 because that fee was for services I don't offer. I don't know if all agencies charge $100 for extra services.
But for the rest
(3) Clients who happen to be agencies can "demand" all kinds of things. It doesn't mean we have to grant them. The only way an agency-client can be paying $0.005 - $0.10/word is if we charge them such fees.
I have all kinds of customers, and agencies are among my customers. I charge the same fee for the same service to all customers because it is the same service, with the same amount of work. My fee is determined by everything that is involved in the job, and the per word rate is a guideline. I will apply a discount if one seems to be due, but it is according what I consider determining factors - not some algorithm that some company's software has told clients we "will" apply.
The kinds of agencies you talk about simply don't become my clients. If they contact me, I will politely ask them for the text they want to have translated, or answer them about my rates. I tell them I don't use CAT tools and if I did, would not do the "fuzzy match" thing. They tell me that I'm too expensive, and go away. End of story.
I do have agencies among my clients, and they are valued customers. The charge is the same as for anyone else, and they seem to be fine with that. We're usually on the same page for quality, not price and fast-faster-fastest being the criteria.
| | | | DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
| Result-oriented: High-flyers vs. Bottom-feeders | Mar 3, 2019 |
Maxi, you're talking, yet the title is not about what translators MUST or CAN ask, but rather what translators SHOULD charge end clients READILY paying $.35+/word now--no matter to a translator or an agency.
Simply, it's much higher than sorry $.01 or even longed-for $.10/word.
Many translators are still but poor businesspersons--without good biz skills, plans and visions. Technically, even one-man agency just takes care of it, representing "wholesale" freelance... See more Maxi, you're talking, yet the title is not about what translators MUST or CAN ask, but rather what translators SHOULD charge end clients READILY paying $.35+/word now--no matter to a translator or an agency.
Simply, it's much higher than sorry $.01 or even longed-for $.10/word.
Many translators are still but poor businesspersons--without good biz skills, plans and visions. Technically, even one-man agency just takes care of it, representing "wholesale" freelancers at their own expense.
While it's a little beside the point, yet what exactly tells small companies from BiG ones--a catching promo, a number of freelancers, "big" clients, high rates, testimonials or what?--A subjective/private opinion, a biased judgment, a perceived and suggested image. So what? Just work as a company.
The question Why follow a big fish? implies why hold high-flyers (ant. bottom-feeders) up as an example? making the difference about one's goals and projected incomes--it's where one's aiming and going to.
> Who determines fees?
If you don't set your prices, then it must be those who makes a choice you consider to be yours.
No wonder smart businessmen [should] prefer going bigger and higher.
TOP SECRET: It's not translators adapting to small or big agencies' low prices, but rather agencies looking at high-class translators' high rates ▲ Collapse
| | | | | We need another kind of relation platform | Mar 4, 2019 |
For a service of translation (i.e. without proofreading nor other post- or extra- translation services), the prices of many of my agency clients are about the triple of what I am paid for that service. I don't know if I am paid fairly and end clients are charged fairly…I’ve been asking this question…
I think it is very urgent, for translators and end clients, to have truthful professional translator platforms allowing qualified translators and end clients to meet each other di... See more For a service of translation (i.e. without proofreading nor other post- or extra- translation services), the prices of many of my agency clients are about the triple of what I am paid for that service. I don't know if I am paid fairly and end clients are charged fairly…I’ve been asking this question…
I think it is very urgent, for translators and end clients, to have truthful professional translator platforms allowing qualified translators and end clients to meet each other directly without any other intermediary agents. I am very surprised that Proz does not make more efforts to draw more end clients rather than agencies for translators. If I have that competence and enough capitals, I think I will do that. ▲ Collapse
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| Confused by your confusion :-) | Mar 4, 2019 |
Maxi Schwarz wrote:
OK, I'm confused. The title is advising that in order to know how much to charge, we should look at big agencies, I assume to determine our own fees. I asked why big agencies in particular. You are telling me about many translators "being paid" (passive) poorly,which works if you're an employee, but not if you set your own prices. Since the article talks about knowing what one's prices should be, then I take it to be about setting one's own prices.
The OP also talks of one particular big company: I seem to remember that this company is notorious for wanting to pay low fees. So if it is actually about not accepting low fees, because they charge high fees, then it would help for the title to be different. Otherwise it is confusing.
I don't think it's a complex point. Simply that we might want to rethink our pricing when some/many/most/all agencies fleece translators so mercilessly/fleece end-clients so mercilessly.
But of course clients/agencies set prices. You might say I charge 100, take it or leave it. But the reason you charge 100 rather than 200 is because you know they won't take it.
Now I get the case for charging all clients 100. But if you learn that agency A charges 200 and agency B charges 300, this is useful information because you can charge agency B more.
| | | | jyuan_us 
United States
Local time: 07:39
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Such a platform would have been existing for more than 15 years if that idea was feasible | Mar 4, 2019 |
Li-Hsiang Hsu wrote:
I think it is very urgent, for translators and end clients, to have truthful professional translator platforms allowing qualified translators and end clients to meet each other directly without any other intermediary agents.
An end client would be much more than willing to work with an agent than with individual translators for various reasons. One of the reasons is that they rely on the agency for quality assurance.
[Edited at 2019-03-04 09:46 GMT]
| | | | | Should we think about it together? | Mar 4, 2019 |
jyuan_us wrote: Li-Hsiang Hsu wrote:
I think it is very urgent, for translators and end clients, to have truthful professional translator platforms allowing qualified translators and end clients to meet each other directly without any other intermediary agents.
An end client would be much more than willing to work with an agent than with individual translators for various reasons. One of the reasons is that they rely on the agency for quality assurance. [Edited at 2019-03-04 09:46 GMT]
Quality assurance is not an insurmountable problem. For example, Proz has an acceptable PRO network certification process which, I think, is a kind of quality assurance that we can provide to clients. This kind of quality certification can include a comprehensive examination on CV, portfolio, certifications, diploma, credentials, and company registration information, with recommendation from referees and translation tests etc. And it can include a performance index based on clients and reviewer’s (if applicable) evaluation. The possibilities are innumerable. And we should boast this rigorous process to clients who need that assurance.
I am sure that a lot of agencies can’t really provide this assurance to their clients because they don’t have a rigorous process of recruitment, not even comparable to that of Proz PRO network. They just make believe that quality is assured.
Of course, to have that kind of quality assurance means more costs for a relation platform and therefore, possibly higher fee of registration and commissions. But I am ready to pay for a service more profitable to my business. As a member of Proz, and thus a "client", I am not really very satisfied with the profitablity that this platform brings to my business.
In a word, I am very willing to pay higher fee for a PRO relation platform that brings me end clients, not agencies, and assures payment. I really think it is not exciting at all to work for agencies if some other entities can bring me clients and assure payment. Should we think about it together?
[Edited at 2019-03-04 13:11 GMT]
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