Curly/non curly apostrophe
Auteur du fil: BabelOn-line

BabelOn-line
Royaume-Uni
Local time: 02:58
anglais vers français
+ ...
May 25, 2018

Hello All,

New Cafetran user here. Learning slowly, CT is my first trans. memory, but happy with the direction of travel so far. Still wish there was a full manual or even a third party online tutorial.

When translating into French, my apostrophe come as straight e.g. : l'exemple

Is there a preference I can set up to get curly (or slightly inclined forward) apostrophes e.g.: lapostrophe

by default in the
... See more
Hello All,

New Cafetran user here. Learning slowly, CT is my first trans. memory, but happy with the direction of travel so far. Still wish there was a full manual or even a third party online tutorial.

When translating into French, my apostrophe come as straight e.g. : l'exemple

Is there a preference I can set up to get curly (or slightly inclined forward) apostrophes e.g.: lapostrophe

by default in the French target?

I can always do a "search and replace all" at the end of the translation, but this always makes me a bit uneasy.

Thanks





[Edited at 2018-05-25 14:47 GMT]
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Jean Dimitriadis  Identity Verified
anglais vers français
+ ...
System-wide solution May 25, 2018

Hello!

I think you're on a Mac.

Well, in CafeTran, there is no AutoCorrect function like in Word or SDL Trados, although you can often correct spelling by simply cycling through the alternatives without going back to the word itself (see the "Replace with alternative spelling" keyboard shortcut). There is also a text shortcuts feature in the Resources menu, for application-level text replacement.

So, I suggest that you look for a system-wide solution.
... See more
Hello!

I think you're on a Mac.

Well, in CafeTran, there is no AutoCorrect function like in Word or SDL Trados, although you can often correct spelling by simply cycling through the alternatives without going back to the word itself (see the "Replace with alternative spelling" keyboard shortcut). There is also a text shortcuts feature in the Resources menu, for application-level text replacement.

So, I suggest that you look for a system-wide solution.

The best, would be to simply type the correct apostrophe in the first place.

In GNU/Linux, I'm able to type the curly apostrophe with the help of a simple key combination (using the configured "Compose" key zith the French soft layout). I'm also using Find and replace in Target segments as needed.

That may be the case on a Mac too. I don't know it this depends on the keyboard layout, but I've found this info on the Web, you may want to test it.

Alt + ] should produce an opening single curly quote ( ‘ )
Alt + Shift + ] should produce a closing single curly quote ( ’ ) = curly/smart apostrophe
Alt + [ should produce an opening double curly quote ( “ )
Alt + Shift + [ should produce a closing double curly quote ( ” )

You can try using the virtual keyboard viewer to locate the correct combination for your layout.

Then, there is the solution described in "macOS Sierra: Replace text and punctuation in documents" - https://support.apple.com/kb/PH25699?locale=en_US which may work across all applications (not just select ones). Again, I have no way to test this here.

If this does not work, hopefully, other CafeTran + MacOS users will chime in.

Jean


[Edited at 2018-05-25 22:47 GMT]
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Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
Royaume-Uni
Local time: 02:58
Membre (2009)
néerlandais vers anglais
+ ...
(various) third-party online tutorials to learn how to use CafeTran May 25, 2018

BabelOn-line wrote:

Hello All,

New Cafetran user here. Learning slowly, CT is my first trans. memory, but happy with the direction of travel so far. Still wish there was a full manual or even a third party online tutorial.

When translating into French, my apostrophe come as straight e.g. : l'exemple

Is there a preference I can set up to get curly (or slightly inclined forward) apostrophes e.g.: lapostrophe

by default in the French target?

I can always do a "search and replace all" at the end of the translation, but this always makes me a bit uneasy.

Thanks





[Edited at 2018-05-25 14:47 GMT]


(1) Go to: http://beijer.uk/cafetran-old-wiki/cafetran.wikidot.com/index.html and click on any of the keywords (links)! Some of the info may be a bit outdated, but the old wiki (courtesy of Hans Lenting, which I also contributed to) is still a veritable treasure trove of information.

(2) And Hans's old site: http://cafetran4mac.blogspot.co.uk/ (also very good!)

(3) There is also Jean Dimitriadis' very own version ("TheCafeTranFiles") @ https://github.com/idimitriadis0/TheCafeTranFiles/wiki

(4) And there is of course also the official stuff which Igor is hard at work on @ https://cafetran.freshdesk.com/support/solutions

Hope this helps!

Michael


 

Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
Royaume-Uni
Local time: 02:58
Membre (2009)
néerlandais vers anglais
+ ...
Mac or PC? May 25, 2018

BabelOn-line wrote:

Hello All,

New Cafetran user here. Learning slowly, CT is my first trans. memory, but happy with the direction of travel so far. Still wish there was a full manual or even a third party online tutorial.

When translating into French, my apostrophe come as straight e.g. : l'exemple

Is there a preference I can set up to get curly (or slightly inclined forward) apostrophes e.g.: lapostrophe

by default in the French target?

I can always do a "search and replace all" at the end of the translation, but this always makes me a bit uneasy.

Thanks





[Edited at 2018-05-25 14:47 GMT]


Are you on a Mac or PC? If the latter, I have various tips.

Michael


 

Hans Lenting  Identity Verified
Pays-Bas
Membre (2006)
allemand vers néerlandais
Alt May 26, 2018

All of the above, plus this as an alternative solution: https://www.chainsawonatireswing.com/2012/10/22/a-list-of-contractions-with-curly-apostrophes-for-textexpander/

Which keyboard layout are you using? If you’re using the US keyboard, you might consider to try the US International PC (!) keyboard on your Mac:
... See more
All of the above, plus this as an alternative solution: https://www.chainsawonatireswing.com/2012/10/22/a-list-of-contractions-with-curly-apostrophes-for-textexpander/

Which keyboard layout are you using? If you’re using the US keyboard, you might consider to try the US International PC (!) keyboard on your Mac: it adds some dead keys that will insert some special characters, depending on the next key press.

https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/120938/wheres-the-us-international-keyboard-on-os-x-10-9-mavericks

http://www.macfreek.nl/memory/Mac_Keyboard_Layout

Note the last two solutions in the article above:

The two Mac OS X applications to edit a keyboard layout are:
– Karabiner, a powerful and stable keyboard customizer for Mac OS X.
– Ukelele, a Unicode Keyboard Layout Editor for Mac OS X.


With these keyboard layout editors you can assign the ´ character to any key on your keyboard.


[Edited at 2018-05-26 06:29 GMT]
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Hans Lenting  Identity Verified
Pays-Bas
Membre (2006)
allemand vers néerlandais
Alt+e May 26, 2018

Jean Dimitriadis wrote:

Alt + Shift + ] should produce a closing single curly quote ( ’ ) = curly/smart apostrophe


On my keyboard I can also use Alt+e, Space to create l´addition.

Untitled

[Edited at 2018-05-26 06:25 GMT]


 

BabelOn-line
Royaume-Uni
Local time: 02:58
anglais vers français
+ ...
AUTEUR DU FIL
@Jean @Hans @Michael May 29, 2018

Big – if somewhat collective – thanks

I tend to type the curly quote marks with the usual Mac combination as I go – and they are usually less numerous than say, apostrophes.

Muscle memory is such that i will probably carry on typing my apostrophes with the standard, direct, straight apostrophe from my Mac keyboard and then do a search and replace at the end. I always have a round of final checks for double spaces and suchlike anyway. Was hoping there was a simp
... See more
Big – if somewhat collective – thanks

I tend to type the curly quote marks with the usual Mac combination as I go – and they are usually less numerous than say, apostrophes.

Muscle memory is such that i will probably carry on typing my apostrophes with the standard, direct, straight apostrophe from my Mac keyboard and then do a search and replace at the end. I always have a round of final checks for double spaces and suchlike anyway. Was hoping there was a simple route such as a typographic preference change.

Using dead keys is another possible route, thanks for the pointer.

I am now even wondering the wisdom of changing the straight apostrophes into curly (typographically correct) ones for French. Wonder if any one would ever notice the difference. I still have clients who are genuinely unhappy if i do not use the square « quotation marks » but I feel we are a dying breed.

Will also check the other suggested resources. I am really warming up to CafeTran, especially after experiencing SDL haughty disdain for everything Apple (disdainful but not enough to advise you not to buy Trados). This community is really a breath of fresh air.

Again, thank you.
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Nicolas Gambardella
Royaume-Uni
Local time: 02:58
Membre (2019)
anglais vers français
+ ...
How to implement the replacement in CTE Jun 28

Jean, I am also under Linux (Ubuntu). I use the keyboard layout "US, intl with dead keys". So, what I need is an automatic replacement of ' into ’ (Alt+0), similar to the replacement of '"'into '« '. I tried to replace the last rule in auto-assembling (the one that replace circle into dot). But nothing happens. When I type ', I still get ', and the automatic segment translations, not matter their origin, still write down apostrophes as ' and not ’.

Screenshot_20200628_192231

At the moment, I just launch LibreOffice and use Grammalecte to correct all the words. However, 1) it is extremely tedious, and 2) it only works for Office files. When I receive SDL packages, and return them as such, I cannot do it. I have to track down every single quote.


 

esperantisto  Identity Verified
Local time: 05:58
Membre (2006)
anglais vers russe
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER
Compose Jun 28

Consider using compose sequences, such as

Compose ' <

to produce

«

Compose ' >

to produce

»

You can define any key as the compose key in your system settings.


 

Jean Dimitriadis  Identity Verified
anglais vers français
+ ...
    Jun 29

Same as esperantisto, on GNU/Linux, I use the compose key for typing non-breaking spaces (press the compose key, then twice the space character) and French-specific characters, like œ (press the compose key, then o+e).

With the compose key, you can type the curly apostrophe by pressing the compose key, then twice the apostrophe character.

---
For typing the curly apostrophe, I also use the AltGr method.

Your keyboard layout is maybe "US, intl with de
... See more
Same as esperantisto, on GNU/Linux, I use the compose key for typing non-breaking spaces (press the compose key, then twice the space character) and French-specific characters, like œ (press the compose key, then o+e).

With the compose key, you can type the curly apostrophe by pressing the compose key, then twice the apostrophe character.

---
For typing the curly apostrophe, I also use the AltGr method.

Your keyboard layout is maybe "US, intl with dead keys" (and mine is also a QWERTY keyboard), but what counts is that you use the French keyboard language for that method to work (whereas the compose key is more language-independent).

What I suggest then, is that you install the Onboard application.

With the FR keyboard input language selected, open Onboard and press the AltGr key, in combination with Shift or alone, to discover to a lot more typing options for French.

Onboard is a virtual keyboard hat allows you to type the characters on screen. Here, I suggest it as a way to discover the required key combinations. Once you know the right combinations, you don’t need to use Onboard.

For example, to type:

- a curly apostrophe, I use AltGR+Shift+B.
- to type the euro sign, it’s AltGR+E
etc.

Note: Onboard does not show the Compose key combinations. Please search online to discover these.


[Edited at 2020-06-29 01:52 GMT]
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Jean Dimitriadis  Identity Verified
anglais vers français
+ ...
Set the Compose key under Ubuntu  Jun 29

You can define the Compose key in the Gnome Tweaks (Ajustements) application, that may or may not come preinstalled with your system.

You can find this option in the "Clavier et souris" (Keyboard and mouse) section of the tool.


 

BabelOn-line
Royaume-Uni
Local time: 02:58
anglais vers français
+ ...
AUTEUR DU FIL
Hard work Jun 29

Nicolas Gambardella wrote:
At the moment, I just launch LibreOffice and use Grammalecte to correct all the words. However, 1) it is extremely tedious, and 2) it only works for Office files. When I receive SDL packages, and return them as such, I cannot do it. I have to track down every single quote.


Sounds like a lot of hard work. Developers should think of this aspect more.

There was a time, long ago (we are talking when Quark XPress was still a thing), most of the typesetting was done by sub-editors who knew their trade.

It looks like software editors and the public at large are now less concerned with punctuation usage...


[Edited at 2020-06-29 08:20 GMT]


 

Igor Kmitowski  Identity Verified
Pologne
Local time: 03:58
Membre (2016)
anglais vers polonais
+ ...
Text shortcuts Jun 29

You might use the functionality of text shortcuts in CafeTran as follows:

1. Select the curly apostrophe in the editor.
2. Choose the action in the menu Resource > Text shortcuts > Add selection to text shortcuts.
3. Define a shortcut (eg. zz). Use alphabetic characters for the text shortcut.

After you type your shortcut (e.g. zz) in the editor and press the space bar, CafeTran will convert your defined shorcut to the curly apostrophe.


 

Nicolas Gambardella
Royaume-Uni
Local time: 02:58
Membre (2019)
anglais vers français
+ ...
I am talking about automated replacements Jul 1

Thanks all. Actually I know how to type a curly apostrophe. As I mentioned, with my keyboard layout, it is Alt-0.

(I have used US and UK keyboard with Linux for 21 years now. Using key composition to type French text was one of the early things I learned. Early 2000s, I was the maintainer of a French dictionary for LaTeX and member of the LaTeX documentation translation team).

I was thinking about automated replacement. At the moment, typing " gives me  » and the
... See more
Thanks all. Actually I know how to type a curly apostrophe. As I mentioned, with my keyboard layout, it is Alt-0.

(I have used US and UK keyboard with Linux for 21 years now. Using key composition to type French text was one of the early things I learned. Early 2000s, I was the maintainer of a French dictionary for LaTeX and member of the LaTeX documentation translation team).

I was thinking about automated replacement. At the moment, typing " gives me  » and the translations proposed by CTE do that as well (not always efficiently. Often the   is missing. I need to understand better what happens under the hood).

But that is fine, I just have to rewire my brain to type ’ instead of ' for the time being

NB: A French project manager just told me that they did not even know there were two types of apostrophes !
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Jean Dimitriadis  Identity Verified
anglais vers français
+ ...
  Jul 1

The other (still manual) option being a single find and replace operation on target segments, to replace all straight apostrophes with curly ones.

@Igor, maybe adding such an automatic replacement option under Resources > Text shortcuts (similar to French guillemets or non-breaking spaces before dual punctuation characters) would make sense.

[Edited at 2020-07-01 20:02 GMT]


BabelOn-line
 


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