Feedback and co-operation
Thread poster: Ludejo
Ludejo
Ludejo
Netherlands
Local time: 12:57
Member (2018)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Sep 11, 2018

Dear people,
We have a small company providing language services.Everyone in our team really likes to work and co-operate with people.
We have faced something the last few weeks: if we have something to say about the language quality, errors and issues, we aren't attacking the people we work with. We send examples and we ask for example: "what do you think about this", or "is this perhaps an area you're less familiar with?"
Because no one in our team is an agressive person, our
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Dear people,
We have a small company providing language services.Everyone in our team really likes to work and co-operate with people.
We have faced something the last few weeks: if we have something to say about the language quality, errors and issues, we aren't attacking the people we work with. We send examples and we ask for example: "what do you think about this", or "is this perhaps an area you're less familiar with?"
Because no one in our team is an agressive person, our feedback isn't agressive either.

I am happy we have a lot of linguists that see the advantage of improving together and learn on the job, we from them, they from us and we have fun together as well.

A small percentage however is very agressive to us immediately if we even ask something about the translation. I give some examples:
"You should tell your client to create less shitty texts"
"You think I can just do anything you ask, you think translators are machines"
"You are just a nobody, saying something"

And those aren't even the worst reactions.

What I am wondering is: Is there a need for a fun course how to deal with feedback (and see it as an opportunity)?
I as well wonder: if a job is outside your expertise: do you mention that as soon as you see it? (I would appreciate that, because I don't believe anyone can do whatever. People have areas they like working in most).
If you aren't happy with the agreed rate, do you then re-negotiate? (I would like that as well more than hearing when a translation quality is low: "my professor told me I should get paid more").

I believe some agencies have mistreated translators. I find it very much a shame I have to deal with that too sometimes, while having been respectful and equal to the people we hire for a job.

It would be great, in a more perfect world, to work with people that see in and believe the best from each other, right? How do you feel about that/see that?
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Ester Vidal
Ester Vidal  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 12:57
Member (2017)
English to Spanish
+ ...
I appreciate constructive feedback Sep 12, 2018

As a translator, in normal situations* I appreciate constructive feedback from my clients, agencies or reviewers, and I am always willing to answer questions about my translations.

In my humble opinion, the answers you are getting are not normal for a professional translator.
For instance, if a source text is not good enough, I would inform the agency when I get it, before starting with the translation, and try to find a solution together (edition of the source text, renegot
... See more
As a translator, in normal situations* I appreciate constructive feedback from my clients, agencies or reviewers, and I am always willing to answer questions about my translations.

In my humble opinion, the answers you are getting are not normal for a professional translator.
For instance, if a source text is not good enough, I would inform the agency when I get it, before starting with the translation, and try to find a solution together (edition of the source text, renegotiation of rate, etc.) but never do a bad job and then say "You should tell your client to create less shitty texts". If your feedback is not aggressive, you should never receive this kind of answers.

Also, translators should only work in their areas of expertise and check the source text before accepting the rate, to avoid "surprises". Anyway, I think communication between agency and translator is very important and any problems should be addressed before delivering the translation.

Until we wait for a more perfect world, I think we should try our best to work together and cooperate.

*Normal situations: a proofreader that proposes logical changes, an agency that respects payment terms, feedback done with respect and in a short period of time after receiving the translation...
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Ludejo
Jennifer Forbes
Josephine Cassar
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
K T Chamberlain
Maria Eriksson
 
Jennifer Forbes
Jennifer Forbes  Identity Verified
Local time: 11:57
French to English
+ ...
In memoriam
Shocked! Sep 12, 2018

Ludejo, I'm shocked at the rude and unprofessional remarks you quote from some of your translators in response to feedback. Did you continue to offer work to those people?
Polite and businesslike communication between agency and translator is to be expected (or at least to be aspired to) and translators should try to view any criticism of their work objectively and learn from it.
Perhaps it's the modish Serena Syndrome. Lose your rag and then claim some form of discrimination??
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Ludejo, I'm shocked at the rude and unprofessional remarks you quote from some of your translators in response to feedback. Did you continue to offer work to those people?
Polite and businesslike communication between agency and translator is to be expected (or at least to be aspired to) and translators should try to view any criticism of their work objectively and learn from it.
Perhaps it's the modish Serena Syndrome. Lose your rag and then claim some form of discrimination??
Your agency's policy of being tactful and courteous sounds delightful to me.
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Ester Vidal
Adam Warren
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
 
Kay Denney
Kay Denney  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 12:57
French to English
Feedback and co-operation Sep 12, 2018

I worked at an agency for quite some time and during that time I often had to get back to translators about their translations.

Quite a few were apparently very insecure because they could not take the slightest criticism.

One sworn translator refused to implement any of the changes that I was suggesting as a proofreader. He actually told me his work was perfect. When I reminded him that I had added the word "not" to correct one of his sentences in a previous translat
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I worked at an agency for quite some time and during that time I often had to get back to translators about their translations.

Quite a few were apparently very insecure because they could not take the slightest criticism.

One sworn translator refused to implement any of the changes that I was suggesting as a proofreader. He actually told me his work was perfect. When I reminded him that I had added the word "not" to correct one of his sentences in a previous translation, he got very angry and refused to work with us after that. He was a very good translator, but he made mistakes as everyone does.

I learned to always start by thanking the translator for their hard work and praising whatever I liked about it, before then broaching the more delicate subject of possible errors or omissions.
Of course if the source text is rubbish, it's hard to produce a good target text. The translator could have framed it more tactfully. Would they have said the same to a direct client?

In the end, I simply decided that good customer relations are an integral part of what makes a translator good, and only worked with those I got on easily with. I always made it clear that I was on the translator's side (easier as an employee than as the boss of course) and always made sure of telling them when I appreciated their work (to the point that the boss told me off, saying they would ask for more money next time. Which they didn't).
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Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Josephine Cassar
Ester Vidal
K T Chamberlain
 
Josephine Cassar
Josephine Cassar  Identity Verified
Malta
Local time: 12:57
Member (2012)
English to Maltese
+ ...
Well.. Sep 12, 2018

I welcome constructive criticism or feedback as we rarely get any and it helps us improve/ameliorate so long as we too can give our agree/disagree and it is not a matter of personal,subjective choice. However, I think as as a PM or agency, the text should be provided before a translator accepts-at least, I always ask for it before committing as a PM or agency may tell me that the text is a contract but then I find it is full of technical or medical stuff that I do not translate. However, I do no... See more
I welcome constructive criticism or feedback as we rarely get any and it helps us improve/ameliorate so long as we too can give our agree/disagree and it is not a matter of personal,subjective choice. However, I think as as a PM or agency, the text should be provided before a translator accepts-at least, I always ask for it before committing as a PM or agency may tell me that the text is a contract but then I find it is full of technical or medical stuff that I do not translate. However, I do not agree with such language as posted. With regards to any 'fun' course, in fact Proz is having a session on such a subject in the very near future: on the 26th of September: How not to treat your customers (I assume this applies whether direct customers or agencies). Here is the event:
https://www.proz.com/tv/ITD2018?utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=65846303&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_q7SSHlZTWgSZLuqqUTbufCPGkZ5xbeF2A-10MI4JUQwG8WAIOAnJ9VnmFVi4WLZxWq77DLqUrpVKbmIXRKEbuH-C_pg&_hsmi=65846303

I had a look at your BB entries and I suggest sending the text prior to any commitment so the translator knows exactly what the text is about and can accept or refuse. I do not accept texts that are beyond my capabilities or areas I do not work in and still want to look at texts I normally translate before committing. I would suggest sticking to your payment terms -and even rate-1 of the posters must have been good and I trust his comment as he had 5 jobs from you and you wouldn't have asked him again had he not delivered really good work.
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Ester Vidal
Mirko Mainardi
K T Chamberlain
 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:57
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Each case needs to be examined in isolation, and not by uninformed people (like us) Sep 12, 2018

Ludejo wrote:
those aren't even the worst reactions.

The people who wrote the phrases you quoted and didn't quote were obviously very upset about something. Nobody who wants to be paid and is happy with the client is going to put that payment in jeopardy by going off the deep end in that way. Most would be able to show a little more diplomacy, whatever they felt. Of course, maybe what was upsetting them was beyond your control, but if it's a repeating problem then maybe you should re-examine each case very carefully, with or without the translator's involvement. We certainly can't comment as we have no knowledge of what prompted the outburst. But I really do think it's a bit unlikely that you can blame it on other agencies .

I as well wonder: if a job is outside your expertise: do you mention that as soon as you see it? (I would appreciate that, because I don't believe anyone can do whatever. People have areas they like working in most).

I too often wonder how often translators take on work that they really don't feel capable of doing. I suspect it's far too often. OTOH, I wonder how often they feel pressured into doing exactly that. To give an example, I've received several emails from one agency lately, all entreating me to accept specific jobs from them. I say "specific jobs" because they each have a word-count and delivery date. But in actual fact they are 100% non-specific. Well, 95%, as they are at least French to English translation jobs. That's all I'm told about them -- the texts themselves aren't attached and there's no mention of the subject matter, the type of document, the file handling requirements, the target variant ... Now, I've never accepted a job from that client; instead I've requested more information so that I can make an informed decision (and soon I'll get round to telling them not to spam me any more, of course ). But what about those translators who are needier, and particularly those who already have this agency as a client, not just a potential one? They'll feel immense pressure to accept and somehow manage. We all know that you can only turn down a client so many times before they go elsewhere. So, referring to your comment above, I think it would be better for the expertise needed to be stated right from the outset, by the client. Later is too late.


 
Ricki Farn
Ricki Farn
Germany
Local time: 12:57
English to German
It might go deeper Sep 12, 2018

My subconscious latched onto this sentence: "I believe some agencies have mistreated translators."

It goes back earlier in a person's life than agencies. It's language teachers, and possibly parents if they are the linguistic type. Of course, I can only really say this about Germany, but I have always found it shocking how language/literature teachers attack their students. Including doing them down for "mistakes" that are clearly just preferential issues, or telling them "this essa
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My subconscious latched onto this sentence: "I believe some agencies have mistreated translators."

It goes back earlier in a person's life than agencies. It's language teachers, and possibly parents if they are the linguistic type. Of course, I can only really say this about Germany, but I have always found it shocking how language/literature teachers attack their students. Including doing them down for "mistakes" that are clearly just preferential issues, or telling them "this essay is not good, rewrite it" without giving any hints as to how.

I have one degree from a Computing faculty and one from a language faculty that was meant for teacher students (I was the only nontraditional student there not planning to go into school teaching). In Computing, feedback was always about the content, the technical issue at hand. It was not personal, and there was a consistent atmosphere of cameraderie even when voices got loud, and they certainly did. In teacher studies, the level of aggression was incredible. I was glad every day to get away from the psychological mayhem and take the monorail back to the "technical" campus.

I'm afraid you're up against the psychological destruction brought about by centuries of inept language/literature teachers. Maybe you could mention this to your translators, and even go as far as saying in so many words that you are not a teacher and not meaning to be one.
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