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Can I translator can be sue if he/she doesn't want to notarize his/her translation
Thread poster: online2003
online2003
online2003
United States
Local time: 11:08
Dec 15, 2017

A client came an ask to translate some documents from Spanish to English. The job was done and the next day the client said that he want to notarize the documents. He didn't ask for notarization before, and he want to do it now. He never pay for that and he's not offering to pay for that .... The client threatened to sue the translator. The translator refuses to notarize the documents, he/she says that the client didn't ask for that service before. The notarization is to confirm that the transla... See more
A client came an ask to translate some documents from Spanish to English. The job was done and the next day the client said that he want to notarize the documents. He didn't ask for notarization before, and he want to do it now. He never pay for that and he's not offering to pay for that .... The client threatened to sue the translator. The translator refuses to notarize the documents, he/she says that the client didn't ask for that service before. The notarization is to confirm that the translation is the same of the original. Can the client sue the translator?
Thanks!
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Mervyn Henderson (X)
Mervyn Henderson (X)  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 16:08
Spanish to English
+ ...
Er ... Dec 15, 2017

Er ...

 
Jennifer Forbes
Jennifer Forbes  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:08
French to English
+ ...
In memoriam
Extraordinary Dec 15, 2017

I doubt the client would have grounds for suing a translator who is unwilling to notarise a translation if the client didn't ask for notarisation before issuing the order and isn't willing to pay for notarisation.
The translator would have to pay the notary (or whoever notarised the document - they don't do it for nothing) and would have to spend time getting it notarised.
So my answer is "no". Well. I suppose the client COULD spend time and money suing the translator but would lose
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I doubt the client would have grounds for suing a translator who is unwilling to notarise a translation if the client didn't ask for notarisation before issuing the order and isn't willing to pay for notarisation.
The translator would have to pay the notary (or whoever notarised the document - they don't do it for nothing) and would have to spend time getting it notarised.
So my answer is "no". Well. I suppose the client COULD spend time and money suing the translator but would lose his case.
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Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:08
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Contractual relationships Dec 15, 2017

You speak of both the client and the translator in the third person. Does that mean you're an intermediary - an agency? If so, then the client would sue you, the agent, rather than the translator. You could then sue the translator if you thought there were grounds.

But of course, there aren't any grounds at all for anyone to sue. The only one who has done anything wrong is the client, who has changed the requirement after the fact (although unfortunately we can't sue our clients fo
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You speak of both the client and the translator in the third person. Does that mean you're an intermediary - an agency? If so, then the client would sue you, the agent, rather than the translator. You could then sue the translator if you thought there were grounds.

But of course, there aren't any grounds at all for anyone to sue. The only one who has done anything wrong is the client, who has changed the requirement after the fact (although unfortunately we can't sue our clients for that - unless they fail to pay for what they said they required). At the very least, the notarisation fee has to be paid for by the client, but it really needs to include the time for the translator to actually visit the notary's office. The document will then have to be sent by post or delivered by hand - more expense.

NB: notarisation of a translation says absolutely nothing about its accuracy. The notary is unlikely to understand both languages and even if they do, it isn't their job to certify quality. Here's an explanation of what notarisation is about:
A notarized document is a document that has been marked with a stamp (or “seal”), which indicates that the signature on the document is legitimate. A notary watches you sign and then places the stamp near your signature (along with information which allows others to track down records related to the signature).
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Jean Lachaud
Jean Lachaud  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:08
English to French
+ ...
Call Dirty Harry Dec 15, 2017

I would be tempted to quote Clint Eastwood, aka Dirty Harry, and say: "Go ahead, make my day" and wait for the lawsuit which of course will never come.

If Notarization was not part of the original contract, just politely tell the customer "My charge to provide a notarized Certificate of Accuracy is $XXX."

Me, I charge a flat one-hour fee, to cover the time I required to get the Notary's verification and mail the paper document.

Note to non-USA-based colleag
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I would be tempted to quote Clint Eastwood, aka Dirty Harry, and say: "Go ahead, make my day" and wait for the lawsuit which of course will never come.

If Notarization was not part of the original contract, just politely tell the customer "My charge to provide a notarized Certificate of Accuracy is $XXX."

Me, I charge a flat one-hour fee, to cover the time I required to get the Notary's verification and mail the paper document.

Note to non-USA-based colleagues: In the USA, notaries are not allowed to charge for their services. Some customers do not understand that translators are not a free public service, and that obtaining a Notary's services requires time, and everyone here knows that time is money.

If necessary, explain to the customer that a lawsuit will cost them much, much more that the additional fee to have the translation notarized, and that the lawsuit will most likely be thrown out of court.




online2003 wrote:

A client came an ask to translate some documents from Spanish to English. The job was done and the next day the client said that he want to notarize the documents. He didn't ask for notarization before, and he want to do it now. He never pay for that and he's not offering to pay for that .... The client threatened to sue the translator. The translator refuses to notarize the documents, he/she says that the client didn't ask for that service before. The notarization is to confirm that the translation is the same of the original. Can the client sue the translator?
Thanks!
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John Fossey
John Fossey  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 11:08
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
No, it doesn't Dec 15, 2017

online2003 wrote:

The notarization is to confirm that the translation is the same of the original.


No, notarization doesn't confirm anything about the translation. All it does is confirm that the notary witnessed a certain person sign a declaration.

If the translator notarizes a declaration, as is commonly done, that the translation is a true and faithful rendering of the original, then all it does is confirm that it was the translator that signed that declaration and not someone else. It doesn't even certify that the declaration is true.

[Edited at 2017-12-15 15:12 GMT]


Victoria Fushchich
 
William Tierney
William Tierney  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:08
Member (2002)
Arabic to English
Update to Notary Fees Dec 15, 2017

Notary used to be a free service from my bank (in Florida), but there was a court case that changed that. Now, the bank only does non-commercial notary certifications (school forms, etc.) I have to go to UPS now, which does charge.

On the question of suing the translator, if there was no agreement to provide a notary certification, this would be akin to suing a department store for not selling you a shirt.

JL01 wrote:

I would be tempted to quote Clint Eastwood, aka Dirty Harry, and say: "Go ahead, make my day" and wait for the lawsuit which of course will never come.

If Notarization was not part of the original contract, just politely tell the customer "My charge to provide a notarized Certificate of Accuracy is $XXX."

Me, I charge a flat one-hour fee, to cover the time I required to get the Notary's verification and mail the paper document.

Note to non-USA-based colleagues: In the USA, notaries are not allowed to charge for their services. Some customers do not understand that translators are not a free public service, and that obtaining a Notary's services requires time, and everyone here knows that time is money.

If necessary, explain to the customer that a lawsuit will cost them much, much more that the additional fee to have the translation notarized, and that the lawsuit will most likely be thrown out of court.




online2003 wrote:

A client came an ask to translate some documents from Spanish to English. The job was done and the next day the client said that he want to notarize the documents. He didn't ask for notarization before, and he want to do it now. He never pay for that and he's not offering to pay for that .... The client threatened to sue the translator. The translator refuses to notarize the documents, he/she says that the client didn't ask for that service before. The notarization is to confirm that the translation is the same of the original. Can the client sue the translator?
Thanks!


 
Tina Vonhof (X)
Tina Vonhof (X)
Canada
Local time: 09:08
Dutch to English
+ ...
No Dec 15, 2017

There are no grounds for the client to sue the translator. But the translator should offer to certify or notarize the translation and possibly charge an additional small fee for it. I don't see why not - are we not there to provide a service?

In addition, the client may not have known what kinds of documents do or do not need to be notarized but the translator should know and should have asked ahead of time. If it's not clear from the beginning, I always ask.



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There are no grounds for the client to sue the translator. But the translator should offer to certify or notarize the translation and possibly charge an additional small fee for it. I don't see why not - are we not there to provide a service?

In addition, the client may not have known what kinds of documents do or do not need to be notarized but the translator should know and should have asked ahead of time. If it's not clear from the beginning, I always ask.



[Edited at 2017-12-15 16:51 GMT]
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Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 16:08
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Online Dec 15, 2017

online2003 wrote:
The next day, the client said that he wanted to notarize the documents.


It would be illegal for the client to notarise the documents unless the client is himself a notary.

Or, do you mean the client wanted the translator to notarise the documents? Well, even so, the translator can't notarise the documents, even if he is a notary himself, because a notary is not allowed to notarise his own signature.

Presumably the client requires some kind of declaration about the accuracy of the translation, and although the translator can give such a declaration, he won't be able to notarise it himself. He would have to take the documents to a notary and sign the documents in the presence of that notary. This would result in time and travel expenses for the translator.

He didn't ask for notarization before, and he wants to do it now.


If it was clear from the type of translation that was ordered (or the type of document translated) that a notarisation would normally be required, then the onus is somewhat on the translator to inform the client that notarisation is not included in the deal. However, the client is not blameless if he did not specify notarisation, even if he thought that notarisation would be included.

He never paid for that and he's not offering to pay for that.


It is my understanding that in even in the US, notarisation usually costs money (not a lot, though... 15 dollars or so). Some states may have laws that state that free notarisation should be made available to the public, but that does not mean that all notaries should provide their services for free.

Perhaps the client thought that the cost of notarisation was included in the deal? A judge will look at the agreement between the translator and client to determine if it was reasonable for the client to expect notarisation and the cost of notarisation to be included in the price. There is a risk that the judge will feel that it was not necessary for notarisation to be specifically mentioned (as other things that are assumed are also often not mentioned, e.g. spell-checking, maintaining formatting, or informing the client of difficulties), but we can only comment on that if we see all of the communication between the client and translator.

However, in my opinion, since notarisation would result in subtantial additional costs for the translator, if the quote for the translation was similar to that of a typical non-notarised translation, it would be fair to assume that notarisation was not included in the deal, even if the client thought it would be.

The notarization is to confirm that the translation is the same of the original.


The notarisation itself does not confirm that, but I suspect that you mean "the notarisation of the translator's signature under a declaration that the translation is a true and accurate translation of the original".

Can the client sue the translator?


Yes, he can. However, I suspect you mean "does the client have grounds to sue", and the answer is in the rest of this reply.


 
Mario Chavez (X)
Mario Chavez (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 11:08
English to Spanish
+ ...
Getting things straight Dec 16, 2017

online2003 wrote:

A client came an ask to translate some documents from Spanish to English. The job was done and the next day the client said that he want to notarize the documents. He didn't ask for notarization before, and he want to do it now. He never pay for that and he's not offering to pay for that .... The client threatened to sue the translator. The translator refuses to notarize the documents, he/she says that the client didn't ask for that service before. The notarization is to confirm that the translation is the same of the original. Can the client sue the translator?
Thanks!


You are a new Proz member and you have a SecurePro card, but no profile. Are you an agency owner? Are you the affected translator?

As others have pointed out, notaries public in the United States only certify the identity of the signee (that my signature, for example, is mine and not somebody else's). It seems the threat level has to come down and all heads have to calm down a bit before suits and arguing take place. Perhaps the client is unaware of the role notarizations take in America. If the client is still unconvinced, offer him/her to speak with a friend of yours who is a notary public, a third party with nothing to gain from the transaction. It's worth a try.

[Edited at 2017-12-17 17:44 GMT]


 
mariealpilles
mariealpilles  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 16:08
Member (2014)
English to French
+ ...
Notarising a document Dec 17, 2017

If the client asks for it after the translation has been completed and does not want to pay for it, the client has absolutely no ground for any legal action. The Notary does exactly the same as the Apostille from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs - adding his seal to the document, but it can be added that he cannot gauarantee the content of the document. It would have been so much easier to have the document translated by a sworn translator whose stamp and signature are a certification for content... See more
If the client asks for it after the translation has been completed and does not want to pay for it, the client has absolutely no ground for any legal action. The Notary does exactly the same as the Apostille from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs - adding his seal to the document, but it can be added that he cannot gauarantee the content of the document. It would have been so much easier to have the document translated by a sworn translator whose stamp and signature are a certification for content since the translator is then liable for quality.
Maybe the client is not at fault and it is not at all impossible that the client was asked to present a notarised document afterwards. The translator does not have to take the document to a notary, the client can do that on its own.
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jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:08
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
You provided helpful information but would you elaborate on this? Dec 17, 2017

JL01 wrote:
Note to non-USA-based colleagues: In the USA, notaries are not allowed to charge for their services.


Why are notaries not allowed to charge for their services in the USA?

[Edited at 2017-12-17 10:47 GMT]


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:08
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
FYI Dec 17, 2017

Samuel Murray wrote:
It is my understanding that in even in the US, notarisation usually costs money (not a lot, though... 15 dollars or so).


https://www.nationalnotary.org/notary-bulletin/blog/2016/11/how-state-notary-fees-compare

Adriana05 Oct 2017
I live in NYC. Is the max $2? because I went to get a document notarized and was charged $20.

National Notary Association05 Oct 2017
The maximum fees that a New York Notary may charge for a notarial act are (EL 136): 1. Taking an acknowledgment or proof: $2 per person, plus $2 for each witness sworn in; 2. Administering an oath or affirmation including, as applicable, any jurat certificate: $2 per person (except where another fee is specifically prescribed by statute); 3. Executing a protest: 75 cents per protest and 10 cents per notice of protest, not exceeding five notices (EL 135).


 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 16:08
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Jyuan Dec 17, 2017



I suspect one has to ask oneself also whether the client needs a public notary (notary public) or a private notary (civil-law notary). The public notary is paid by the state, so his "fee" isn't supposed to cover his living expenses -- it's more of an administration fee.

I don't know what kind of notary the client might need (i.e. to draw up a document which, when signed by a translator in his presence, complies with the legal requirements for the client's purposes (whatever that might be)). Does anyone have an opinion on that? I would have thought that this comes under "private".


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:08
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
I think the client might simply want something like this Dec 17, 2017

The translator signs a certification of translation along these lines: "I certify that I am competent to translate from [the language of the document] to English and that the above [identify the document] is a correct and true translation to the best of my knowledge and belief" in front of a notary public.

The notary public will stamp on the certification, and the text on his or her stamp would read something like this:

This document was signed before me by (name of pe
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The translator signs a certification of translation along these lines: "I certify that I am competent to translate from [the language of the document] to English and that the above [identify the document] is a correct and true translation to the best of my knowledge and belief" in front of a notary public.

The notary public will stamp on the certification, and the text on his or her stamp would read something like this:

This document was signed before me by (name of person signing the document before the notary) on this (date). Notary Signature. Notary Expiration Date.

A lot of local banks in the USA have staff members available to provide this kind of "notarization service" for free.

[Edited at 2017-12-17 11:06 GMT]
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Can I translator can be sue if he/she doesn't want to notarize his/her translation







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