| Pages in topic: [1 2 3] > | The work of a "beginner" translator must be 100% up to standard Thread poster: Tom in London
|
|---|
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:55
Member (2008)
Italian to English
I often see "beginner translators" mentioned in these forums.
A translation that contains mistakes, poor command of the source and target languages, or demonstrates a low literacy level, inadequate terminology research, spelling or typographical errors, etc., or that is delivered late, incomplete, etc. is **a translation that cannot be used**.
In that sense there is no such thing as a "beginner" translator. You're either 100% or you're 0%.
Your thoughts?
| | | | John Di Rico 
France
Local time: 19:55
Member (2006)
French to English
| Nobody’s perfect | Jan 13, 2017 |
I agree that you are either a translator or something else. Fake it till you make, and in any event you’re only as good as your last translation.
Yes, we need to strive towards excellence and perfection, but does the latter really exist?
You get diminishing returns after a certain amount of time spent on a translation.
A highly productive translator can spend more time tending towards perfection (aka revision) as opposed to a less productive translator. “Beginner” trans... See more I agree that you are either a translator or something else. Fake it till you make, and in any event you’re only as good as your last translation.
Yes, we need to strive towards excellence and perfection, but does the latter really exist?
You get diminishing returns after a certain amount of time spent on a translation.
A highly productive translator can spend more time tending towards perfection (aka revision) as opposed to a less productive translator. “Beginner” translators usually suffer from low productivity because they have to research terminology, build TMs and glossaries, and don’t know how to use productivity boosting tools. So they either make less money or provide poorer translations. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:55
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
| Even you, Tom... | Jan 13, 2017 |
Tom in London wrote:
I often see "beginner translators" mentioned in these forums.
A translation that contains mistakes, poor command of the source and target languages, or demonstrates a low literacy level, inadequate terminology research, spelling or typographical errors, etc., or that is delivered late, incomplete, etc. is **a translation that cannot be used**.
In that sense there is no such thing as a "beginner" translator. You're either 100% or you're 0%.
Your thoughts?
...were once a beginner.
Not sure what you're hoping to achieve with your post. Can you be more specific about where you see these "beginner translators" in the forums?
As far as I know, agencies sometimes use beginners because they are often cheaper. Sometimes very much so. Of course, they're usually not that good yet, but, uhm, they're cheap. Also, an agency can have a beginner translate sth and then have a good proofwrangler fix up the worst of it (which is why I stay the hell away from proofing these days).
Michael
| | | |
I recently bought a 3D printer to assemble at home following an incomplete manual in Spanish, containing pieces of bad quality. I got the machine to work after a lot of tweaking and research. Now I am the proud owner of a 3D printer. I am glad this non-consumer-model exists - otherwise I couldn't afford one. If I wanted to run a printing business, where I had to deliver prototypes of high quality in time to my clients, this model might not be sufficient, but for the tasks I use it for, it is gre... See more I recently bought a 3D printer to assemble at home following an incomplete manual in Spanish, containing pieces of bad quality. I got the machine to work after a lot of tweaking and research. Now I am the proud owner of a 3D printer. I am glad this non-consumer-model exists - otherwise I couldn't afford one. If I wanted to run a printing business, where I had to deliver prototypes of high quality in time to my clients, this model might not be sufficient, but for the tasks I use it for, it is great.
Likewise there is a market for cheap (or expressed more politely: affordable), less-than-perfect translations. Think simple devices that by law need to contain a manual, even though everybody knows how to work with them, or cheapo e-commerce, where a more-or-less understandable product description is good enough.
And then there are some areas where using beginner translators is a bad idea:
High profile marketing, technical manuals for anything that could be dangerous if used incorrectly, anything medical, many legal texts... ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Natasha Ziada (X)
Australia
Local time: 03:55
English to Dutch
+ ...
To me, the issues you mention are signs of an incompetent translator rather than one that doesn't have much experience. I agree that issues like poor command of source or target language, incomplete work etc. have no place in any translator's work.
However, I don't fully agree with the 100% 'rule' - one simply needs to put in the hours to fully master a craft. All translators (or other professionals for that matter) will have produced a few clunky/clumsy texts early on in their care... See more To me, the issues you mention are signs of an incompetent translator rather than one that doesn't have much experience. I agree that issues like poor command of source or target language, incomplete work etc. have no place in any translator's work.
However, I don't fully agree with the 100% 'rule' - one simply needs to put in the hours to fully master a craft. All translators (or other professionals for that matter) will have produced a few clunky/clumsy texts early on in their careers, have missed an obscure reference or translated too literally. ▲ Collapse
| | | |
Anna Sarah Krämer Fazendeiro wrote:
Likewise there is a market for cheap (or expressed more politely: affordable), less-than-perfect translations. Think simple devices that by law need to contain a manual, even though everybody knows how to work with them, or cheapo e-commerce, where a more-or-less understandable product description is good enough.
Are you trying to tell us that professional, high quality translations are too expensive, i. e. "NOT AFFORDABLE"?
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:55
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER | Something like this, perhaps? | Jan 13, 2017 |
| | | | | Not affordable for everyone | Jan 13, 2017 |
Professional translations are not affordable for everyone. The chinese "rubber heat water bag" producer is one example. Let's be honest - we all know how to use a hottie, don't we? So if the "direction" is legally required, albeit unnecessary, and additionally provides for a good laugh, all the better. Another example for people that might not be able to afford a professional translation are self-published authors - something that came up in another thread today. Now if it makes sense to have a ... See more Professional translations are not affordable for everyone. The chinese "rubber heat water bag" producer is one example. Let's be honest - we all know how to use a hottie, don't we? So if the "direction" is legally required, albeit unnecessary, and additionally provides for a good laugh, all the better. Another example for people that might not be able to afford a professional translation are self-published authors - something that came up in another thread today. Now if it makes sense to have a self-published novel translated by a beginner translator is another topic. I might want to read neither the original nor the translation, but to each its own. I like to read translations of user instructions and product descriptions in the local Chinese shops though, when I get bored. ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 19:55
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Two separate issues | Jan 13, 2017 |
Tom in London wrote:
I often see "beginner translators" mentioned in these forums. ... In that sense there is no such thing as a "beginner" translator. You're either 100% or you're 0%.
This is one issue. The fact is that many translators are not trained extensively in the way that doctors are, so by the time these translators become earners, they still have much to learn.
A translation that contains mistakes, poor command of the source and target languages, or demonstrates a low literacy level, inadequate terminology research, spelling or typographical errors, etc., or that is delivered late, incomplete, etc. is **a translation that cannot be used**.
Not only beginner translators deliver such work, though.
| | | | | work of an experienced translator (but not native speaker of the target language) | Jan 13, 2017 |
Tom in London wrote:
I would say it's the work of an experienced translator (but not native speaker of the target language)
I'm sure this translator has already translated milllions of Chinese characters.
[Modifié le 2017-01-13 15:28 GMT]
| | | | | Doing simple things well | Jan 13, 2017 |
Beginners CAN do excellent work if they have been trained well before actually starting to translate professionally. Nobody is going to pay for their first attempts in school, or wherever they learn the first steps.
I started translating in fact for an archaeologist brother-in-law. He provided the terminology and said his English sounded like German and his usual English colleague was ill, so could I please do my best? I don't know who proofread it, but I have translated a fair amou... See more Beginners CAN do excellent work if they have been trained well before actually starting to translate professionally. Nobody is going to pay for their first attempts in school, or wherever they learn the first steps.
I started translating in fact for an archaeologist brother-in-law. He provided the terminology and said his English sounded like German and his usual English colleague was ill, so could I please do my best? I don't know who proofread it, but I have translated a fair amount of archaeology since, and with a little feedback and adjustment I get it to sound satisfactory.
I went on to translating recipes for family members. I discovered that Danish uses a form of passive - or used to 30 years ago - which sounds silly translated directly into English:
'The eggs are beaten and added to the mixture', no, beat the eggs and add them ...
-- The oven is set at 180 degrees Centigrade (Er, what's that in Fahrenheit or Gas Mark?)
That sort of thing got me thinking.
There are large volumes of work that is not difficult, although it calls for a good language ear and knowledge of idioms. The translator must be able to resist source language interference, turn sentences around and change the syntax and structure as needed, not to mention understanding the source text. Beginners worth their salt can start there, and produce highly professional translations. They can give themselves time to do it properly and arrange deadlines accordingly, and there is absolutely no excuse for errors, late delivery or whatever.
If you can't deliver a professional translation, find another job! You can always advance to the more complicated issues later. The challenges make it fun, but a professional should take them systematically and learn to solve them competently. The fun soon palls if you are always struggling and then have to cope with dissatisfied clients! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Black or white | Jan 13, 2017 |
Texts of all writers, even those of the greatest ones, are edited. Come on, even Cervantes had a slip here and there "la primavera sigue al verano", which is not true and got edited in the "modern" version of the text.
Can we sustain that great writers do not have good command of their own language?
If all translators produced implacable texts, why should then editors exist at all?
It's not black or white. But I do agree, it has to be almost white.
| | |
|
|
|
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:55
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
To clarify: of course anyone can translate anything.
But to become a *professional* translator for *payment* you have to hit the ground running. You can't "start bad" and somehow evolve into "good".
I spent years translating non-professionally, as part of my other career (architect) until one day I realised I had become good at it. Then I went professional.
| | | | | Why this perfectionism? | Jan 13, 2017 |
Tom in London wrote:
To clarify: of course anyone can translate anything.
But to become a *professional* translator for *payment* you have to hit the ground running. You can't "start bad" and somehow evolve into "good".
I spent years translating non-professionally, as part of my other career (architect) until one day I realised I had become good at it. Then I went professional.
If one isn't good at it, they shouldn't go "professional", no question about that.
However, you original post implies [to me] that one must be perfect. Sorry, nobody is. Not even you.
For example, in your "samples" section, the very first text, the fifth bullet point contains a capitalization typo and a spacing one (for "m"). Does that mean you are not a translator?
Sorry, Tom. Nothing against you. And obviously, you are very respected and professional translator, but why bragging on perfectionism? This is like sustaining that if an opera singer cracked a note even once during a performance, they aren't singers anymore and must go back to conservatory for 10 years or so. By the same token, Pavarotti wasn't a singer, Domingo wasn't a singer, even Kraus wasn't a singer (well, the latter at least apologised and said he couldn't continue singing during that night; the former would go down an octave and keep singing).
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:55
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Let's try not to personalise this. I haven't made any critical personal remarks about anyone and I would recommend that others do likewise.
| | | | | Pages in topic: [1 2 3] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » The work of a "beginner" translator must be 100% up to standard | CafeTran Espresso | You've never met a CAT tool this clever!
Translate faster & easier, using a sophisticated CAT tool built by a translator / developer.
Accept jobs from clients who use Trados, MemoQ, Wordfast & major CAT tools.
Download and start using CafeTran Espresso -- for free
Buy now! » |
| | Wordfast Pro | Translation Memory Software for Any Platform
Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users!
Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value
Buy now! » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
