Typing figures
Thread poster: Ramunas Kontrimas
Ramunas Kontrimas
Ramunas Kontrimas  Identity Verified
Lithuania
Local time: 08:32
English to Lithuanian
+ ...
Nov 3, 2016

Sometimes I get projects with plenty of numbers - bank accounts, transaction amounts, dates, long document numbers... Sometimes these go on for a few pages. Usually such projects come as PDFs which I'm explicitly told not to OCR in order not miss any details... And then the client says he won't pay for these figures. Then I refuse.

However, in general, how do you go about such situations? Even if the client offers me my regular translation rate for these numbers, they take much long
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Sometimes I get projects with plenty of numbers - bank accounts, transaction amounts, dates, long document numbers... Sometimes these go on for a few pages. Usually such projects come as PDFs which I'm explicitly told not to OCR in order not miss any details... And then the client says he won't pay for these figures. Then I refuse.

However, in general, how do you go about such situations? Even if the client offers me my regular translation rate for these numbers, they take much longer to retype in the translation (and then more time to carefully review them) because they usually count as one word but are not words I know by heart which I could type in a split second. It is not a problem if these are just a few lines in a bigger document but when it's a page or even half a page in a 3-page document... it does become a problem. Honestly, I would charge 2-3 times my translation rate for these.

Your opinion?
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Elif Baykara Narbay
Elif Baykara Narbay  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Local time: 09:32
German to Turkish
+ ...
Nicer clients as every freelancer's dream :) Nov 3, 2016

Pricing based on the character count

and

Taking a screenshot of the figure-rich sections and pasting it into the translated document

are the two solutions that come to my mind.

Depending on the type of documents and the agreement with your client, character-based pricing + an extra fee for review is a good solution.

Best,
Elif


 
Germaine
Germaine  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 02:32
English to French
+ ...
This is a "word processing" job. Nov 3, 2016

So, I usually charge my word processing rate (I actually offer word processing and transcription services, so this isn't a problem). Besides, I can't resolve to charge a "translation" rate to move spaces and commas around, especially since I do it using search/replace. Which brings me to the surprising part of your post:

"such projects come as PDFs which I'm explicitly told not to OCR in order not miss any details..."

Since you're going to "carefully review the
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So, I usually charge my word processing rate (I actually offer word processing and transcription services, so this isn't a problem). Besides, I can't resolve to charge a "translation" rate to move spaces and commas around, especially since I do it using search/replace. Which brings me to the surprising part of your post:

"such projects come as PDFs which I'm explicitly told not to OCR in order not miss any details..."

Since you're going to "carefully review them" anyway, there is no reason whatsoever not to OCR. First of all, your client should not dictate how you will do the work - especially when he doesn't intend to pay for the result. Second, it's easier to miss a number and even a whole line working with a paper copy than it is working in the Word/Excel file. In fact, if the PDF is not an image, you can even copy-paste the table (which is error free!) in Word and then simply do the formatting (you add 1 tab in front of each number (don't mind the alignment) and convert into a table).

Should you receive a lot of PDF, do not hesitate to invest in Adobe Acrobat. When the pdf is an image, you right-click "Recognize text using OCR" and save the file. Then, you can "Save as" the document in MS-Word, Excel, etc. - which also applies for a regular PDF.

[Edited at 2016-11-04 15:37 GMT]
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Maxi Schwarz
Maxi Schwarz  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:32
German to English
+ ...
about the ocr part Nov 4, 2016

ramunas26 wrote:

Usually such projects come as PDFs which I'm explicitly told not to OCR in order not miss any details..

Your client is paying for a translation, not for the method you use for producing that translation. I don't OCR PDFs. I pay a fee for a conversion service by Adobe Reader, so that I end up having a PDF file (from which I translate) as well as a Word file. You can at least cut and paste numbers and proper names, which you must check carefully because it is not perfect. 5's can turn into S's, 0 can become o, but along with checking everything carefully it is still potentially more accurate than typing in rows and rows of numbers by hand.
I do charge a fee for numbers. On occasion, such as when the end client is a student getting a transcript done, I will sometimes set up everything and give a substantial discount if the client wants to write in the numbers, which I then check. It was an end client who came up with the idea.


 
Jennifer Forbes
Jennifer Forbes  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:32
French to English
+ ...
In memoriam
Figures should be included in the word count Nov 4, 2016

I translate a lot of financial documents, annual reports and accounts, statistical reports, etc. which include lots of figures, often in tables.
In my opinion, the figures in such documents, which obviously are crucial to them, should be counted as words. The documents wouldn't be much use without them. My clients wouldn't ask me either not to retype them or not to include them in the word count.
In the case of translation from French and Spanish to English, which is what I do, the c
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I translate a lot of financial documents, annual reports and accounts, statistical reports, etc. which include lots of figures, often in tables.
In my opinion, the figures in such documents, which obviously are crucial to them, should be counted as words. The documents wouldn't be much use without them. My clients wouldn't ask me either not to retype them or not to include them in the word count.
In the case of translation from French and Spanish to English, which is what I do, the commas in the figures have to be changed to full stops and the full stops to commas. Therefore, even copying and pasting the tables of figures doesn't help much, because the figures all have to be converted from the continental to the UK/American format. It's a tedious and time-consuming task, but it's part of the job. Our time is what we sell, in the end, and our time is what we should be paid for.
So I think that, in future, before accepting work which requires re-typing a great many figures, you should explain to the client that you will be charging for the figures as being included in the word count.
Bonne chance!
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FarkasAndras
FarkasAndras  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:32
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Not how it works, obviously Nov 4, 2016

ramunas26 wrote:

Sometimes I get projects with plenty of numbers - bank accounts, transaction amounts, dates, long document numbers... Sometimes these go on for a few pages. Usually such projects come as PDFs which I'm explicitly told not to OCR in order not miss any details... And then the client says he won't pay for these figures. Then I refuse.


I would ask the client to prepare a word doc with all the figures in it themselves. Tables etc. If they do it so I don't have to touch them, fine, I will copy-paste them or skip them at no charge. If they expect me to work with the numbers, they will have to pay me for it. If they think I will hand-type several pages of numbers from a scanned pdf at no charge, they are delusional.


 
Inga Petkelyte
Inga Petkelyte  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 06:32
Lithuanian to Portuguese
+ ...
Account numbers are longer than words Nov 4, 2016

Jenny Forbes wrote:

I translate a lot of financial documents, annual reports and accounts, statistical reports, etc. which include lots of figures, often in tables.
In my opinion, the figures in such documents, which obviously are crucial to them, should be counted as words. The documents wouldn't be much use without them. My clients wouldn't ask me either not to retype them or not to include them in the word count.
In the case of translation from French and Spanish to English, which is what I do, the commas in the figures have to be changed to full stops and the full stops to commas. Therefore, even copying and pasting the tables of figures doesn't help much, because the figures all have to be converted from the continental to the UK/American format. It's a tedious and time-consuming task, but it's part of the job. Our time is what we sell, in the end, and our time is what we should be paid for.
So I think that, in future, before accepting work which requires re-typing a great many figures, you should explain to the client that you will be charging for the figures as being included in the word count.
Bonne chance!


I fully understand the asker's problem and here's what I do in such cases:
1) either apply a surcharge - as, exactly like mentioned, it take a longer time than translation if there were words,
or
2) charge per my time,
or
3) ask the client to reproduce the numerical part by themselves.

The big problem here is the client attitude. Typically, the attitude in those regions is "What?? Do you actually translate numbers? If you don't, why do you charge as for translation? Why do you charge for transcribing them at all, no special knowledge is needed for that!"

The major part of numbers that I encounter in my documents are way longer than an average word. On the other hand, it takes higher concentration to transcribe a number than to write down a word. This is why I don't charge for numbers as per word. Everyone's time has a value, ours included.


 
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 06:32
Member (2007)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
I bill by the hour Nov 4, 2016

I translate a lot of medical devices certifications which usually have pages and pages with catalog numbers (the longest had 60 pages!). I have agreed with my customer to bill by the hour.

 


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