ProZ.com Translation Forums

Could I define english as my mother tongue? | Listen between the lines

Bin Tiede — Mon, 22 Apr 2013 10:59:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: Could I define english as my mother tongue?
Poster: Bin Tiede
Post title: Listen between the lines

Some people tend to tell you "Your English is perfect" if you are fluent in this language. For me it just means the opposite. Do you ever tell a Brit/Scot his or her English is perfect?

Could I define english as my mother tongue? | agree with Samuel, Tom, Charlie and Jane, Ty that a native speaker would not make these mistakes

gallagy2 — Mon, 22 Apr 2013 10:10:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: Could I define english as my mother tongue?
Poster: gallagy2
Post title: agree with Samuel, Tom, Charlie and Jane, Ty that a native speaker would not make these mistakes

too many errors in this paragraph to claim you are a native speaker.

[quote]Ty Kendall wrote:

[quote]Samuel Murray wrote:

[quote]Tom in London wrote:
From the awkward syntax in the text above, a general lack of fluency, and numerous spelling mistakes, I'd say that English is not even close to being your mother tongue. [/quote]

I agree. Even if we don't look at spelling mistakes, and we don't look at punctuation and capitalisation tidiness, the fact is that the word order of your sentences is un-English. For English to qualify as your first or your second language, the correct word order must come natural to you.

Samuel
[/quote]

Agree with Samuel, Tom, Charlie and Jane. There are times when you have to eschew all political correctness and sensitivity and just call a spade a spade (or a non-native speaker a non-native speaker - whilst remembering that there's nothing wrong with being a non-native speaker - I think non-native speakers should have more pride, they learnt the language the hard way - through study, not from lazily sitting on their butts for 3/4 years listening to their parents jabber away).

The trouble with self-definition/identification is that it tends to drift quite far from reality (humans have a great capacity for self-delusion). [/quote]

Could I define english as my mother tongue? | Being bilingual

Lisa Simpson, MCIL — Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:34:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: Could I define english as my mother tongue?
Poster: Lisa Simpson, MCIL
Post title: Being bilingual

Being bilingual does not necessarily mean that you have two mother tongues. Fluency in a language does not automatically make one bilingual either.

I'd say Spanish is probably your mother tongue (unless you think otherwise) and English is your second language.

Could I define english as my mother tongue? | True, true...

Samuel Murray — Mon, 22 Apr 2013 06:07:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: Could I define english as my mother tongue?
Poster: Samuel Murray
Post title: True, true...

[quote]Texte Style wrote:
[quote]Jane Proctor wrote:
My youngest has now spent more time here than in the UK and I suspect her French is better than her English.. French constantly interferes with her spoken English, faux amis abound and she is forever muddling up her syntax... And yet, technically, English is and will always be her first language/mother tongue or whatever you want to call it. [/quote]
My children could fit in the same category as yours, Jane, with an English mother but living in France. They have a perfect accent but get simple things wrong in English. ... They could perhaps have produced text along the lines of the original post. [/quote]

What you're saying is true also of my 11-year old son, who lived in South Africa until he was about six years old. His Afrikaans accent is perfect, and he can comfortably switch between Dutch and Afrikaans vocabulary, but he uses Dutchisms in his Afrikaans that would have triggered any non-nativeness test for Afrikaans.

[quote]Whatever, the question here is whether Giulipalla's English is good enough to claim native English status, and I am categorically in with Charlie, Samuel and Ty on that. The writing in the original post is not what I would expect from a native speaker ... As a teacher of English as a foreign language I would have marked that piece of writing pretty severely. [/quote]

Yes, in this thread the OP clearly stated that English was not her "first" language or the language that she grew up with before she went to school, so this is not a case of a child losing his ability to speak perfectly, like a native speaker, but rather a case of a good foreign-language speaker who is no longer in an environment that fosters that language or protects it.

[quote]I was fascinated by that thread, yet found myself not bothering to read certain posts quite simply because they were hard to follow, and when I looked a bit closer I realised that it was the non-natives I was skipping, simply because the prose didn't flow as well... [/quote]

Well I hope you read this post at least, since it quotes you.

Could I define english as my mother tongue? | Is the OP fit to translate into English?

Texte Style — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 20:39:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: Could I define english as my mother tongue?
Poster: Texte Style
Post title: Is the OP fit to translate into English?

[quote]Jane Proctor wrote:

Giulipalla, we shouldn't come down too hard on your English, since your question concerns a genuine dilemma for people brought up in a multi-lingual environment.

Take my children for example, who moved with me from London to France eight years ago. My youngest has now spent more time here than in the UK and I suspect her French is better than her English.. French constantly interferes with her spoken English, faux amis abound and she is forever muddling up her syntax... funnily enough sentences starting with "since..." being a classic one!

And yet, technically, English is and will always be her first language/mother tongue or whatever you want to call it.

[Edited at 2013-04-21 19:09 GMT]

[Edited at 2013-04-21 19:24 GMT] [/quote]

My children could fit in the same category as yours, Jane, with an English mother but living in France. They have a perfect accent but get simple things wrong in English. Having been schooled in France they speak French as well as anyone. They could perhaps have produced text along the lines of the original post. Rather than pointing to this as proof that the mistakes made can be made by native speakers, I would posit that "native speaker" is more a matter of where you grow up than the language your mother speaks. Talking about your "mother tongue" is simply misleading in multi-cultural environments.

Whatever, the question here is whether Giulipalla's English is good enough to claim native English status, and I am categorically in with Charlie, Samuel and Ty on that. The writing in the original post is not what I would expect from a native speaker (and even less from a translator claiming to be a native speaker). Mistakes have been highlighted and they're pretty basic errors. As a teacher of English as a foreign language I would have marked that piece of writing pretty severely.

And quite frankly, it's hard to even understand because of the syntax errors. As in the epic Charlie dusted off, my personal litmus test is quite simply readability. I was fascinated by that thread, yet found myself not bothering to read certain posts quite simply because they were hard to follow, and when I looked a bit closer I realised that it was the non-natives I was skipping, simply because the prose didn't flow as well, even if they made very few actual mark-costing mistakes.

Could I define english as my mother tongue? | interference

Jane Proctor — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 19:06:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: Could I define english as my mother tongue?
Poster: Jane Proctor
Post title: interference

Giulipalla, we shouldn't come down too hard on your English, since your question concerns a genuine dilemma for people brought up in a multi-lingual environment.

Take my children for example, who moved with me from London to France eight years ago. My youngest has now spent more time here than in the UK and I suspect her French is better than her English.. French constantly interferes with her spoken English, faux amis abound and she is forever muddling up her syntax... funnily enough sentences starting with "since..." being a classic one!

And yet, technically, English is and will always be her first language/mother tongue or whatever you want to call it.

[Edited at 2013-04-21 19:09 GMT]

[Edited at 2013-04-21 19:24 GMT]

Could I define english as my mother tongue? | Mother tongue...

George Hopkins — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 14:31:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: Could I define english as my mother tongue?
Poster: George Hopkins
Post title: Mother tongue...

...obviously the language spoken to you by your mother when you were a baby, which apparently was not English. Go from there.

The mother tongue of my two youngest grandchildren is Swedish -- although they were both born in France and now speak better French than Swedish.
The mother tongue of my son is Swedish although he is British. We always spoke, and speak, Swedish in our family -- although my mother tongue is English.
An interesting mixture.

An interesting thing regarding my young grandchildren is that when they don't know a particular Swedish word or expression they borrow from the French language, give it a Swedish twist, and carry on. But they don't mix the languages.

There's no exact definition of native language. We are not talking about mathematics.

Could I define english as my mother tongue? | Thirded (Fourthed?)

Ty Kendall — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 14:27:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: Could I define english as my mother tongue?
Poster: Ty Kendall
Post title: Thirded (Fourthed?)

[quote]Samuel Murray wrote:

[quote]Tom in London wrote:
From the awkward syntax in the text above, a general lack of fluency, and numerous spelling mistakes, I'd say that English is not even close to being your mother tongue. [/quote]

I agree. Even if we don't look at spelling mistakes, and we don't look at punctuation and capitalisation tidiness, the fact is that the word order of your sentences is un-English. For English to qualify as your first or your second language, the correct word order must come natural to you.

Samuel
[/quote]

Agree with Samuel, Tom, Charlie and Jane. There are times when you have to eschew all political correctness and sensitivity and just call a spade a spade (or a non-native speaker a non-native speaker - whilst remembering that there's nothing wrong with being a non-native speaker - I think non-native speakers should have more pride, they learnt the language the hard way - through study, not from lazily sitting on their butts for 3/4 years listening to their parents jabber away).

The trouble with self-definition/identification is that it tends to drift quite far from reality (humans have a great capacity for self-delusion).

Could I define english as my mother tongue? | Second... or third language

Samuel Murray — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 14:02:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: Could I define english as my mother tongue?
Poster: Samuel Murray
Post title: Second... or third language

[quote]Tom in London wrote:
From the awkward syntax in the text above, a general lack of fluency, and numerous spelling mistakes, I'd say that English is not even close to being your mother tongue. [/quote]

I agree. Even if we don't look at spelling mistakes, and we don't look at punctuation and capitalisation tidiness, the fact is that the word order of your sentences is un-English. For English to qualify as your first or your second language, the correct word order must come natural to you.

Samuel

Could I define english as my mother tongue? | Second

Tom in London — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 13:25:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: Could I define english as my mother tongue?
Poster: Tom in London
Post title: Second

[quote]giulipalla wrote:

Hello everyone!

So I have a problem here, I seariously don´t know if english is just my second lenguage or mother tongue??? I´m paraguayan and my parents are paraguayans as well, they only speak spanish but they sent me to billingual schools since I´m 2 years old... I can express myself in english in the exact same level as I can in Spanish plus I´ve got no accent when i speak english. So whats english for me? also my doughter is growing in a 3 language environment, english-spanish-german, my husband is german, we live in Germany we speak to her spanish, my husband german and me and my husband we speak english and sometimes to her too and in august she will be going to an english-german kindergarden. So what will be her mother tongue?

[Edited at 2013-04-20 19:23 GMT] [/quote]

From the awkward syntax in the text above, a general lack of fluency, and numerous spelling mistakes, I'd say that English is not even close to being your mother tongue. Examples: "since I´m 2 years old"; "whats english for me?"; "my doughter"; "we speak to her spanish"; "me and my husband we speak english"; "what will be her mother tongue?" etc.

[Edited at 2013-04-21 13:26 GMT]

Could I define english as my mother tongue? | No

Charlie Bavington — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 13:18:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: Could I define english as my mother tongue?
Poster: Charlie Bavington
Post title: No

[quote]giulipalla wrote:

.... since I´m 2 years old... [/quote]

I would say this mistake alone means you cannot ethically offer to provide mother-tongue level translations into English (note the capital letter, while we're at it).

As this epic thread [url removed] explains, while everyone makes mistakes, there are some mistakes that native speakers just don't make. Getting the tense wrong with "since" is a dead giveaway. Sorry.

Could I define english as my mother tongue? | Tiny clues give it away

Jane Proctor — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:57:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: Could I define english as my mother tongue?
Poster: Jane Proctor
Post title: Tiny clues give it away

[quote]Michele Fauble wrote:

A better question might be, "Are there things in my speech or writing that would cause a native speaker of English to think I am a non-native speaker?"

[/quote]

You are clearly extremely proficient in English, but judging by the way you have written your post, it appears to me that whilst you may be fluent at a spoken level, you are not 100% fluent at a written level.

I would say you are definitely bi-lingual, but that English is not your first language. As for your daughter... time will tell!

Could I define english as my mother tongue? | You can have more than one native language

Christine Andersen — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 11:43:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: Could I define english as my mother tongue?
Poster: Christine Andersen
Post title: You can have more than one native language

No one is disputing that. But it is also a question of the level at which you speak and write the language. Simply 'native level' is not always enough for professional use as a translator. Many people do not write their native languages (whatever they may be) well enough to work as professional linguists, even though their language is fine for other professions and industries.
_______________

For some of us, our native lanugage is also a 'language of the heart'. The language we live in, not just a language used in school or at work or when travelling. There are different definitions of native language, depending on how and where you use it.

Which language do you scream or swear in, when you drop something heavy on your foot?
I have lived more than half my life in Denmark and brought my son up in Danish. It takes Danes some time to discover that I have an accent, unless they know I am a foreigner and are listening for it. I regard Danish for many practical purposes as my second mother tongue, because when in Denmark I dream and react in Danish as much as I dream and react in any language at all. However, I did not start learning Danish until my late twenties.

For professional purposes, my native language is UK English, and Danish is a second language.
______________

There are lots of different types of 'native English' - and even within England where it all started, there are different dialects and accents, so you are sure to have some kind of accent to native speakers from different corners of the globe.
______________

There is no single central authority that lays down what is correct or incorrect in English.

However, there are several accepted standards - the most widespread are UK English and US English, closely followed by the different Commonwealth countries and those where for one reason or another English is a common second language where many other languages are also spoken. There ARE sets of rules, not total anarchy, and clients do expect translators to write correctly and consistently according to one or another of these sets of rules, depending on the text and who you are writing for.

Many people justifiably regard English as a native language, because, like you, they have learnt it from early childhood and received their education in English.
__________________

On the other hand, there have been endless discussions on this site on what a native language is, and although efforts are made to try and draw in other languages - Portuguese, and the different variants in the Francophone world just to mention a couple... the discussion is always fiercest about English.

I fear that some people might accuse you of lying if you claimed English as your native language, if your opening post is the way you normally write English. Sorry, but there is no diplomatic way of putting it.

I hesitate to claim that my UK English is 'better' than yours, but there are a lot of points that would be regarded as spelling mistakes in practically any kind of English.

That short paragraph would not pass as native UK English, and does not look like any of the varieties I regularly see.
_________________

Back to my own case:
I was not educated in Danish, and although I have studied the language at many levels, there are typical expressions that I dislike and do not use. If I get my husband or another 'real' Dane to check through anything I write, they can usually get it to sound more polished and more native, even if it is strictly correct.

_________________

So call English one of your native languages if you like. Your spoken English may be better, but I am afraid that small written sample is not correct enough to be marketed as professional standard native English in many parts of the world.

Could I define english as my mother tongue? | Different question

Michele Fauble — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 09:37:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: Could I define english as my mother tongue?
Poster: Michele Fauble
Post title: Different question

A better question might be, "Are there things in my speech or writing that would cause a native speaker of English to think I am a non-native speaker?"

Could I define english as my mother tongue? | Yes, I absolutely agree with Phil

LilianBoland — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 08:18:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: Could I define english as my mother tongue?
Poster: LilianBoland
Post title: Yes, I absolutely agree with Phil

If you speak the languages almost the same, not only you could, but you should.

Could I define english as my mother tongue? | You can define it yourself

Phil Hand — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 06:43:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: Could I define english as my mother tongue?
Poster: Phil Hand
Post title: You can define it yourself

I disagree with Nicole. You must make the decision what your native/mother language is, and you can have more than one. If your English is at the same level of fluency as your Spanish, then you can certainly say that both languages are native for you. The same will go for your daughter.

In translation, if you say that English is your native language, clients will expect you to be able to translate into English perfectly (as close to perfect as anyone can). If in all good faith, you can do that, then it's correct to say your English is native.

Could I define english as my mother tongue? | Inclined to agree

Sarai Pahla — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 06:22:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: Could I define english as my mother tongue?
Poster: Sarai Pahla
Post title: Inclined to agree

[quote]Nicole Coesel wrote:

In your case it is quite obvious. You were born and raised in Paraguay from Paraguayan parents and you only spoke Spanish at home, Spanish and Engish at school. So what you heard most is your mothertongue.
That makes Engsligh your second language.
[/quote]

This mirrors my view. The definition of your first language is tricky, and many people take it up on themselves to tell the world what that is (I literally only spoke English until I started learning University in English, but still jealous of those who grew up in bilingual or multilingual households because playing catch-up is a pain as an adult!!)

Having said that, and on to a potentially offensive question (brace yourself!): How do you know that you don't have an accent when you speak English? I genuinely want to know - I'm not trying to suggest that you have one - have people told you that you sound like you are from England? Just curious.

Could I define english as my mother tongue? | Second language

Nicole Coesel — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 05:52:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: Could I define english as my mother tongue?
Poster: Nicole Coesel
Post title: Second language

Dear Guilopalla,

In your case it is quite obvious. You were born and raised in Paraguay from Paraguayan parents and you only spoke Spanish at home, Spanish and English at school. So what you heard most is your mother tongue.
That makes English your second language.

I hope that helps.

Just a little tip for you: mind your spelling and use of capital letters.

Good luck,
Nicole.

[Edited at 2013-04-21 10:47 GMT]

[Edited at 2013-04-21 10:50 GMT]

[Edited at 2013-04-21 17:41 GMT]

Could I define english as my mother tongue? | a bit more to think about

Fernando Guimaraes — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 05:51:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: Could I define english as my mother tongue?
Poster: Fernando Guimaraes
Post title: a bit more to think about

a bit more to think about:

[url removed]

Could I define english as my mother tongue?

giulipalla — Sat, 20 Apr 2013 10:33:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: Could I define english as my mother tongue?
Poster: giulipalla

Hello everyone!

So I have a problem here, I seariously don´t know if english is just my second lenguage or mother tongue??? I´m paraguayan and my parents are paraguayans as well, they only speak spanish but they sent me to billingual schools since I´m 2 years old... I can express myself in english in the exact same level as I can in Spanish plus I´ve got no accent when i speak english. So whats english for me? also my doughter is growing in a 3 language environment, english-spanish-german, my husband is german, we live in Germany we speak to her spanish, my husband german and me and my husband we speak english and sometimes to her too and in august she will be going to an english-german kindergarden. So what will be her mother tongue?

[Edited at 2013-04-20 19:23 GMT]

How do native English-speaking parents teach their children letters of the alphabet? | exposure

Jessie Linardi — Fri, 18 Jan 2013 14:01:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: How do native English-speaking parents teach their children letters of the alphabet?
Poster: Jessie Linardi
Post title: exposure

I don't remember whether or not I did phonics at school. I moved schools a few times in the early years, between two very different educational systems (US & UK). I do remember being taught about the "magic letter E" though e.g. mat + e = mate, changing the vowel sound to a "long" one.

I know that children in primary school in the UK learn the name of each letter of the alphabet as well as a corresponding sound, e.g. A = "ah", B="buh", C="kuh", etc. (sorry, my knowledge of the IPA is not amazing, so I've used the English-speakers' way of conveying proununciation!) This helps them to sound out words as they're reading and also to spell them.

English spelling and pronunciation is variable and nonsensical in a lot of cases, as we all know (why don't "height" and "weight" rhyme?!). I believe the only way to really ingrain English spelling and the corresponding pronunciation is through exposure. Kids who love to read are normally more adept spellers, grammarians and they'll have a better understanding of how to correctly use punctuation (our poor, poor misused apostrophe...). This has to go hand-in-hand with aural exposure and speaking as well, of course.

Often, it's far too difficult to try and learn the sound that a particular combination of letters makes, simply because there are way too many exceptions. It can sometimes make more sense just to learn entire words on their own.

Encourage my daughter to speak in Hindi... | Make her be proud/happy of knowing the language

Helena Diaz del Real — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:05:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: Encourage my daughter to speak in Hindi...
Poster: Helena Diaz del Real
Post title: Make her be proud/happy of knowing the language

Hi,
My son is bilingual german and spanish. He speaks fluently both.

I think the most important is to make her be proud or happy to know this language. I.e. explain her stories in which she sees how helpful is to know hindi. Or tell her great things about the history of your folk. Whenever you read fairy tales, do it in hindi. And if possible, let the action happen in India, with hindi speaking persons. Make her eager to learn, listen or read (whenever she is able to) this language. And of course, speak hindi to her. English is the language she will hear all around. So your husband and yourself are those who had to add hindi in your daily life. You are the "inteface" between the place you happen to live now and her/your roots.

I also spent hughe quantities of money buying books, CD, DVD in Spanish, and I do not regret one single cent of it. Anything related to language should be in hindi. Of course, few exceptions are OK, but they must remain an exception.

As somebody said, try to go to India as often as possible. And try to remain there as long as you can.

Well this is what I do with my son and it works very well. Lately he came home, very proud, because an elderly boy who has spanish at school, asked him for help with homework. And for my son it was very easy and with 10 years, he was able to help a 13 or 14 years old boy! He was soooooooooo happy! And soooooooooo proud!!! I think such experiences are extremely helpful to make a child become bilingual, as in my opinion, the most important think is NOT to obligate the child to speak a language, but to make him proud or to make him love to speak it. If you get it, the rest will come almost alone.

I hope it helps!

Kind regards,
Helena

Encourage my daughter to speak in Hindi... | learn with fun

SinghSunita — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 06:03:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: Encourage my daughter to speak in Hindi...
Poster: SinghSunita
Post title: learn with fun

I would like to share a Fun way to learn Hindi for Kids - [url removed]

It offers structured Hindi learning curriculum via interactive online worksheets, which come with a lot of pictures, Roman text, Hindi text and professionally recorded sounds. its curriculum has been developed by multiple experienced professionals based on recent researches in Pedagogy, i.e., Science of Teaching.

Thank You!

To all those with bilingual sprogs | I would like to tell this mother

Texte Style — Sun, 16 Sep 2012 14:52:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: To all those with bilingual sprogs
Poster: Texte Style
Post title: I would like to tell this mother

that things can get better.

I definitely had that "been there done that" feeling as I read the article although I refrained from ever giving them jelly!

And non, my son, aged 20, is just off to do an Erasmus year in England, and my daughter in her last year of school is looking at only English schools for next year...

The other night she put "The Jungle Book" on, and we shared it yet again, and I explained things that I had never bothered to explain when they were young, like the vultures spoofing the "modern trash" of the day, we had a great time. They are now heavily into TV series from Britain, preferring them over any US stuff.

They both have enjoyed considerable prestige as the ones who could best decipher and explain the words of songs (asking mum for help of course). They have also embraced their father's culture and family.

I definitely think that three halves sums it up best.

To all those with bilingual sprogs | How true!!

phoeberuth — Sun, 16 Sep 2012 14:29:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: To all those with bilingual sprogs
Poster: phoeberuth
Post title: How true!!

"With my British friends and family they make an effort, but don't sound native..."

How true!!!

I've got five sons (aged 17, 15, 10, 8 & 4) and one daughter (aged 13). All were born in Germany, and my husband speaks German to them, but I have ALWAYS talked English and nothing but English to them. My daughter is the only one who ever makes an effort to reply to me in English - maybe she thinks it's the girly thing to do....

When the children try and talk English, they have a pointedly German accent, often use German grammar, and don't have a massively wide vocabulary. On the plus side, they do understand virtually everything I or my British friends and family say to them - though that often doesn't extend to understanding jokes. I remember Johnny, when he was nine or ten, reading aloud to me from a joke book Grandma had sent him.

"What's the coldest country in the world? Chile! (which he pronounced to rhyme with "while"). Never has an attempted joke fallen so flat.

Ah yes...one other thing: my daughter is also my only child to like marmite. And only one son ever supports England with me when it comes to the clash in football matches...

Thanks for the link, Phil!

To all those with bilingual sprogs | Sprogs?

Henry Hinds — Sun, 16 Sep 2012 14:23:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: To all those with bilingual sprogs
Poster: Henry Hinds
Post title: Sprogs?

What are sprogs?

To all those with bilingual sprogs | Nice article

Mailand — Sun, 16 Sep 2012 08:45:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: To all those with bilingual sprogs
Poster: Mailand
Post title: Nice article

Phil, thanks for the link!
I think I´ve been quite lucky. I had already been living in Italy for 10 years when my first kid came along, so was already "steeped" in Italian culture (absorbing most but not all of it, some of the more recent "cultural" developments here are better left where they belong: in the gutter ....). Apart from books and very frequent visits to my home town and visits here from family and friends, I had one important ally: tv - it would be quite hard to make worse children´s shows than the Italian ones and my children (now 15 and 13) watch almost exclusively German shows (I am NOT saying that German television is THE thing, but: anybody out there voting for Italian tv??).
I do understand the author´s fear of loss, though, but it´s inevitable: you gain something, you lose a little elsewhere. I believe that a parent of bilingual/bicultural children has to accept that nothing will be 100%. And: As fond as each of us is (usually) of dear childhood memories - we also have to remember that a childhood e.g. in Germany in my case, today, is different from the one I had 45 years ago. Fortunately nothing ever stays the same!
We can only try to instill in our children an openmindedness for cultural differences. And looking at today´s newspaper headlines, I believe that that is an invaluable gain which balances a lot of losses.

To all those with bilingual sprogs | Great article,

Petitavoine — Sun, 16 Sep 2012 08:16:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: To all those with bilingual sprogs
Poster: Petitavoine
Post title: Great article,

thanks for the link!
Very funny: Worse still, when I sent them to school with lime jelly cubes for a special treat one day, they came home mortified, telling me that their friends had called it "Martian food".

[Edited at 2012-09-16 08:17 GMT]

To all those with bilingual sprogs | Why ...

xxxrjlChile — Sat, 15 Sep 2012 23:49:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: To all those with bilingual sprogs
Poster: xxxrjlChile
Post title: Why ...

[quote]Michele Fauble wrote:
To maintain the English of English speaking children in a non-English speaking environment, (...)
[/quote]

... would anyone want to do that?

To all those with bilingual sprogs | Grapefruit

José Henrique Lamensdorf — Sat, 15 Sep 2012 22:56:00 +0000

Forum: Multilingual families
Topic: To all those with bilingual sprogs
Poster: José Henrique Lamensdorf
Post title: Grapefruit

[quote]Phil Hand wrote:
Huh. I once forgot the word "fluorescent light" for an alarming two weeks. [/quote]

While musing in a traffic jam, nothing better to do, I suddenly realized that I had forgotten how to say [i]grapefruit[/i] in English!

Everybody in Brazil calls it [i]grapefruit[/i], we say [i]gray-pee-froo-tee[/i]. It does indeed have a name in Portuguese, "toranja", but I've never seen or heard anyone using it here. For instance, [url removed]

Only when I finally got home and relaxed, it dawned upon me that "grapefruit" IS already in English. Duh!