| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Agency seeking translators working to and from source and target languages Thread poster: Nikki Scott-Despaigne
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| I preach it but don't practice it | Mar 30, 2017 |
It depends what you want from a translation.
If your idea of a mortal sin is to get a preposition wrong or use unusual, but strictly correct syntax, then non-natives may be more prone to sin than natives.
If you want a translation of a working document, say a contract, and you need both the law and the technical terminology to be absolutely correct, then in some language pairs there just are not enough native speakers of the target language to meet the demand. It is not... See more It depends what you want from a translation.
If your idea of a mortal sin is to get a preposition wrong or use unusual, but strictly correct syntax, then non-natives may be more prone to sin than natives.
If you want a translation of a working document, say a contract, and you need both the law and the technical terminology to be absolutely correct, then in some language pairs there just are not enough native speakers of the target language to meet the demand. It is not always a serious problem if it shows that it is a translation when everybody knows it is a translation anyway.
There are far more English native speakers in the world than Danes, but there are simply not enough English natives with a sufficient command of Danish. At least one of my agency clients is desperately searching for English technical translators. There just are not enough qualified people.
The problem is the same in hundreds of language pairs. An agency looking for translators who can work both ways is simply facing up to the fact that demand is greater than the supply if they only work with target language natives. Of course, I cannot blame members of this site, but as long as British schools and universities do not make a far greater effort to teach languages and train linguists, the British are in no position to complain if translators from other countries fill in the gaps and translate into English. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Liviu-Lee Roth
United States
Local time: 04:55
Romanian to English
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| Christine and jyuan-us are right. | Mar 30, 2017 |
Christine Andersen wrote:
It depends what you want from a translation.
If your idea of a mortal sin is to get a preposition wrong or use unusual, but strictly correct syntax, then non-natives may be more prone to sin than natives.
If you want a translation of a working document, say a contract, and you need both the law and the technical terminology to be absolutely correct, then in some language pairs there just are not enough native speakers of the target language to meet the demand. It is not always a serious problem if it shows that it is a translation when everybody knows it is a translation anyway.
There are far more English native speakers in the world than Danes, but there are simply not enough English natives with a sufficient command of Danish. At least one of my agency clients is desperately searching for English technical translators. There just are not enough qualified people.
The problem is the same in hundreds of language pairs. An agency looking for translators who can work both ways is simply facing up to the fact that demand is greater than the supply if they only work with target language natives. Of course, I cannot blame members of this site, but as long as British schools and universities do not make a far greater effort to teach languages and train linguists, the British are in no position to complain if translators from other countries fill in the gaps and translate into English.
I disagree with the "elitist" approach to all translations. Obviously, there are certain fields where it is preferable to have the translation done in your native language. jyuan-us wrote about Chinese doctors, and he is right! I work in the governmental legal field and there are zero American translators available to translate in my language pair. How would you solve this problem, Nikki?
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:55
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Thankfully, you don't have to be British | Mar 30, 2017 |
Christine Andersen wrote:
..... as long as British schools and universities do not make a far greater effort to teach languages and train linguists, the British are in no position to complain if translators from other countries fill in the gaps and translate into English.
Thankfully, you don't have to be British. Perfectly good and correct English is the official language in Australia, Canada, the United States, my native Ireland, and many other countries. We don't particularly only need the British for translations into English; but we DO need the translators to be native in English.
[Edited at 2017-03-30 07:04 GMT]
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X) 
Spain
Local time: 10:55
Spanish to English
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| Brits are going to have to get busy learning Danish, Polish, Estonian and all the other EU languages | Mar 30, 2017 |
Tom in London wrote: Christine Andersen wrote:
..... as long as British schools and universities do not make a far greater effort to teach languages and train linguists, the British are in no position to complain if translators from other countries fill in the gaps and translate into English. Thankfully, you don't have to be British. Perfectly good and correct English is the official language in Australia, Canada, the United States, my native Ireland, and many other countries. We don't particularly only need the British for translations into English; but we DO need the translators to be native in English. [Edited at 2017-03-30 07:04 GMT]
Of course there are SOME.
As soon as you go beyond FIGS languages, there are just not enough native speakers of English who can REALLY do it. Besides translators in England and Denmark, I know of Irish and Australian colleagues whom I can warmly recommend to translate from Danish. But as often as not, when I have done so, they have also been busy, and the client has come back to me even more desperate, or with an extended deadline.
I don't know about Australia, and many Canadians are bilingual, but the British simply do not grow up multilingual as children do in countries where 'small' languages are spoken. As soon as they go outside the national border, they can't use their own language, as English speakers can. Many of the world's languages are not even thought of in schools, and the numbers trained at British universities each year only dent the surface. I agree, it's not ideal, but that is just the way the situation is.
Anyone in Scandinavia with a higher education has read a large proportion of the literature in English, and some of their lectures may be conducted in English, in Danish universities at least. Imagine Engineering students at a university in the UK being told to read the German engineering literature and being expected to attend lectures held in German, because the international expert on the subject happens to be a German! But that is how things are done in other countries. In some cases, the lecturer giving the lecture in English may not be a native speaker of English either... but English is the new Latin, and Danes can't cope with ALL the languages their lecturers may speak.
Many Danes would prefer to have everything in Danish, too, but you can't do that AND maintain international relations in a small country with its own language. (Population about 5.5 million.)
The situation is more or less similar in lots of EU countries, not to mention the Commonwealth and the rest of the world.
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Another possibility is that the agency is in fact looking for teams who can work together to solve the problem. With technical translations in unusual language pairs, using relay translations and intermediate languages, you simply can't be fussy about native languages, and it may not be necessary.
There are probably very few suitable translators of any kind - I know about Danish to Greek, Danish to Portuguese ... they are often relayed through English, and here you don't strictly need an English native to do the English version, if it is not also to be used on English-speaking markets. I have translated the English versions in some cases myself, so I know it goes on.
Instructions for a piece of machinery, made in Denmark, tailored for use in ... China for instance. They need a technical translator who gets the terminology right - that is crucial. Whether the middle translation reads as if a native speaker of English has written it is irrelevant - no English speaker is ever going to read it anyway.
My husband, who is not a translator, but knew the technology in Danish, worked on a project to translate from Danish to Latvian, and they were writing the dictionary as they went along. They used English as the intermediate language, because there was plenty of reference material, but very little text was actually written in English.
In that case, a native Latvian produced the final version, but she could not manage the technical terminology in Danish without help.
Mutatis mutandi, I can imagine lots of situations where translators have to know the subject matter really thoroughly, and both languages, but which is their native language is far less important. Once the text has been drafted, maybe a native speaker can polish the final version.
That is how parts of the translation world actually work. Greetings to all the impressively clever colleagues who find the solutions to situations like that - I know I live a cushy life with English as my target language!
[Edited at 2017-03-30 09:59 GMT]
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:55
Member (2008)
Italian to English
liviu roth wrote:
I disagree with the "elitist" approach to all translations.
There is nothing elitist about getting things right.
| | | | | There is nothing exclusively British or English about getting things right either | Mar 30, 2017 |
Tom in London wrote: liviu roth wrote:
I disagree with the "elitist" approach to all translations. There is nothing elitist about getting things right.
There is nothing exclusive to English natives about getting things right either. For one thing we don't agree among ourselves.
You should see the number of texts by English natives I have proofread, when they simply have not understood the source. It is absolutely vital to get that kind of thing right, and then you can live with the odd not-quite-idiomatic formulation. Especially if it happens to be the correct usage among subject experts...
OK, I withdraw from this discussion for at least a week.
| | | | | Google Brain | Mar 30, 2017 |
Oh, hasn’t Google Brain, or whatever the name is, already solved the problem? As of now, “native” is considered to have lost its “t”. Compared to Google Brain, we now all are “naïve” translators.
Now seriously, I never offer translation into English, but in a couple of occasions I had to accept some projects when pushed to the limit buy a couple of clients of mine, and that strictly in the legal field. Not many native English lawyers can actually understand what a ... See more Oh, hasn’t Google Brain, or whatever the name is, already solved the problem? As of now, “native” is considered to have lost its “t”. Compared to Google Brain, we now all are “naïve” translators.
Now seriously, I never offer translation into English, but in a couple of occasions I had to accept some projects when pushed to the limit buy a couple of clients of mine, and that strictly in the legal field. Not many native English lawyers can actually understand what a Spanish judge writes. In fact, and that is not to exaggerate, not even many native Spanish non-lawyers understand what a Spanish judge writes. There is a gap between what Spanish jusges do and how the rest of the world functions..., and sometimes we are called to bridge that gap. ▲ Collapse
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| For information purposes | Mar 30, 2017 |
In my daily work as a lawyer working for the EU institutions I am using lots of translations into English done by non-native speakers. The most recent case was a procurement procedure for outsourcing translation services from English into Croatian. I needed to check Croatian VAT numbers and Croatian VAT legislation. Fortunately, the Croatian ministry of finance had published this legislation on its website in English. I noticed that the translation from Croatian into English had been done by Cr... See more In my daily work as a lawyer working for the EU institutions I am using lots of translations into English done by non-native speakers. The most recent case was a procurement procedure for outsourcing translation services from English into Croatian. I needed to check Croatian VAT numbers and Croatian VAT legislation. Fortunately, the Croatian ministry of finance had published this legislation on its website in English. I noticed that the translation from Croatian into English had been done by Croatians and not by native speakers of English because sometimes articles were used incorrectly. But all the terminology was correct and all the sentences made sense. So honestly, I didn't care about the fact that the translation was done by non-natives. I was so glad to find something in English because I can't read Croatian. Otherwise I could not have completed my job. So in my opinion, if legal translations are done for information purposes, it's ok to use non-natives as long as the terminology used is correct and the message is conveyed correctly. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Totally agree! | Mar 31, 2017 |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:
The job ad in question is the absolute first time I have ever seen a professional agency seeking translators who work both ways in a language pair. In my view, this sets this agency apart as one that is to be avoided. It sets them apart as unprofessional and one that may not be up to standard in other areas, such as rates, payment terms and so on.
I have lived on the francophone side of Belgium for 30 years (I moved back to Portugal last year), I speak French fluently and I know I could do a more than passable translation into French, but for ethical reasons I choose not to...
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:55
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Teresa Borges wrote:
I have lived on the francophone side of Belgium for 30 years (I moved back to Portugal last year), I speak French fluently and I know I could do a more than passable translation into French, but for ethical reasons I choose not to...
Same for me - but in Italian.
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:55
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| The enemy of the good | Mar 31, 2017 |
Maria S. Loose, LL.M. wrote:
So honestly, I didn't care about the fact that the translation was done by non-natives. I was so glad to find something in English because I can't read Croatian. Otherwise I could not have completed my job.
Hark the voice of the client. Translation is diverse not only in terms of subject matter but also in terms of quality levels. It is clients, not freelancers, who decide how much quality they need.
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Heinrich Pesch
Finland
Local time: 11:55
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
I once did a translation from my second language Finnish into English for an Israelian agency. A native English colleague corrected a couple of mistakes and the customer was happy. But usually I turn down offers to translate into English.
Only yesterday I was offered a job from Swedish into Finnish. I believe I can deliver an acceptable job, if I understand the subject and make sure, a native will control my output. I use native proofreaders also for translations into my native German, if ... See more I once did a translation from my second language Finnish into English for an Israelian agency. A native English colleague corrected a couple of mistakes and the customer was happy. But usually I turn down offers to translate into English.
Only yesterday I was offered a job from Swedish into Finnish. I believe I can deliver an acceptable job, if I understand the subject and make sure, a native will control my output. I use native proofreaders also for translations into my native German, if the customers are not German natives themselves.
The most negative feedback I received from a job into my native German, because I insisted on using German terms instead of fashionable Denglisch. ▲ Collapse
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