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Long-term client requesting a substantial discount
Thread poster: Sylvie A. Martlew
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 07:39
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Tell the PMs Jun 14, 2017

Sylvie A. Martlew, M.Phil. (Oxon.) wrote:
I have a very good relationship with their project managers.
Yesterday, their Vendor Management Department e-mailed me...


The "vendor management department" doesn't care about special favours that translators do for project managers, but project managers do care about that. So my suggestion is that you politely refuse when you write to the vendor manager (and tell him about some of the favours you're already doing him), but that you also write to the project managers to confirm that you're happy to continue to work with them in future. They may not be in charge of vendor management, but they do have some sort of say. Do not be offended by the vendor manager's e-mail -- to him you're just a number out of thousands.


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:39
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Play hard to get Jun 14, 2017

Write to them politely to say that with regret, you will be unable to reduce your tariff any further and that you were in fact thinking of increasing it due to the increased cost of living.

Then say nothing. Just wait for a month or two.

They'll be back.


 
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:39
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Good thinking Jun 14, 2017

Samuel Murray wrote:
but that you also write to the project managers to confirm that you're happy to continue to work with them in future. They may not be in charge of vendor management, but they do have some sort of say. Do not be offended by the vendor manager's e-mail -- to him you're just a number out of thousands.

Excellent idea. The PMs know your value, the vendor manager may well not be aware of it.

Dan


 
Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Germany
Local time: 07:39
English to German
In memoriam
How to put it Jun 14, 2017

It seems that you have made your decision already, i. e. not to accept the discount, and you just wonder how to express this in your response to them.

In your posting you have described the relation to the agency and how you work for them. In fact, you stated a lot of reasons why you should actually raise your rates. So why not reply like "Actually, I was just about to ask you for better rates because frankly, you have been my lowest-paying client for a long time now while at the sa
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It seems that you have made your decision already, i. e. not to accept the discount, and you just wonder how to express this in your response to them.

In your posting you have described the relation to the agency and how you work for them. In fact, you stated a lot of reasons why you should actually raise your rates. So why not reply like "Actually, I was just about to ask you for better rates because frankly, you have been my lowest-paying client for a long time now while at the same time my work for you is one of the most demanding in many respects. Your proposal to lower my rates even further, caught me off guard. I have turned down better paying clients because I was committed to our business relationship and to keeping you and your clients satisfied. The logical decision for me would be to give your assignments lowest priority at all times because you are the lowest payer. Any further rate cut would force me to decline most of your assignments in favor of more profitable work. I would regret that, but I am running a business and I have to consider the economic side of things."

Use everything that applies
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David Hayes
David Hayes  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 07:39
French to English
Everything depends Jun 14, 2017

Everything depends, in fact, on how much the agency really needs you. I am sorry to say that you are very likely to be replaceable in their eyes (whatever they have led you to believe). If so, you have no hope at all of the agency changing its mind.

I too have been through this - so-called "long-term relationships" with trusted agencies that used to send me large amounts of work and that now no longer do so. Why? Because they have found cheaper suppliers elsewhere (I know this for
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Everything depends, in fact, on how much the agency really needs you. I am sorry to say that you are very likely to be replaceable in their eyes (whatever they have led you to believe). If so, you have no hope at all of the agency changing its mind.

I too have been through this - so-called "long-term relationships" with trusted agencies that used to send me large amounts of work and that now no longer do so. Why? Because they have found cheaper suppliers elsewhere (I know this for a fact, but there is no point relaying my evidence on this forum). Chasing new clients and knowing how to manage without old ones is part of running any business.

[Edited at 2017-06-14 09:38 GMT]
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Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 06:39
Member (2007)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Tell the PMs Jun 14, 2017

I wonder if the vendor hasn’t sent exactly the same email to all translators this agency works with… It happened to me some time ago. Over the years I have built an excellent relationship with an agency and I was extremely surprised when I received a similar email to yours. When I contacted the PM, she was surprised they had also written to me and the air cleared almost immediately. Later that year I raised my rates (a little) and we are still working together. So, what can a translator do w... See more
I wonder if the vendor hasn’t sent exactly the same email to all translators this agency works with… It happened to me some time ago. Over the years I have built an excellent relationship with an agency and I was extremely surprised when I received a similar email to yours. When I contacted the PM, she was surprised they had also written to me and the air cleared almost immediately. Later that year I raised my rates (a little) and we are still working together. So, what can a translator do when faced with unreasonable demands? First of all, don’t panic and stay calm! Then, there are in essence three ways to handle those: 1) accept them without discussion; 2) state your own terms and refuse to make any discounts; and 3) negotiate. Negotiation is my preferred method but, of course, its success depends on the strength of one’s position vis-à-vis the client. Your relationship with the client will largely determine your negotiating power.Collapse


 
Robert Forstag
Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:39
Spanish to English
+ ...
My two cents Jun 14, 2017

Some very good advice and insight has been offered here, especially by Michael and Dan.

My comments:

1.
As regards "freebies," I would limit these to tasks that take no more than 15 minutes or so, and that you are available and willing to do without undue hardship. If you don't set such limitations, the agency will think that it can impose on you at will, and this will end up being a major hassle for you (if it isn't already).

And I think you can only
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Some very good advice and insight has been offered here, especially by Michael and Dan.

My comments:

1.
As regards "freebies," I would limit these to tasks that take no more than 15 minutes or so, and that you are available and willing to do without undue hardship. If you don't set such limitations, the agency will think that it can impose on you at will, and this will end up being a major hassle for you (if it isn't already).

And I think you can only contemplate doing freebies in this limited sense because of the revenue you have been earning from this agency. To the extent that this revenue subsides, so should your willingness to do free work.

2.
This may sound terrible to say, but I would not necessarily take at face value the declaration of the VM that the request for a discount results from the grim necessity of the agency accepting lower rates from its end clients. Lies and misrepresentations are not exactly unknown in the world of big translation agencies. I've witnessed this personally on many occasions. (I note in passing that the general behavior described in the original post sounds very familiar to me indeed.)

3.
In line with what Michael has written, I cannot understand why you would *not* charge a premium for evening, weekend or research-intensive work. Given the high volume of work you are assigned by this outfit, maybe you could reasonably offer a "reduced premium*. But no surcharge at all for working late into the night, giving up all or part of your weekend, or taking 5 hours to translate 2000 words because you had to take the time to research a bunch of terms and evaluate different translation options for them? Lunacy!

4.
While Samuel's idea is certainly worth trying, I truly don't think that PMs have a lot of say in what goes on at big agencies. Accordingly, I would not assume that, because you seem to be on very friendly terms with a given PM, this will somehow redound to your benefit in preferential treatment. Keep in mind that friendliness and creating the impression of a personal relationship is part of the schtick of PMs at certain agencies (and probably the one under discussion in particular).

5.
How sad that, instead of appreciating highly productive translators willing to work at reduced rates and go out of their way to be accommodating, agencies like the one described press for still lower rates and still more accommodation, while ever on the lookout for cheaper and more pliant providers.

So much for "valued vendors"....

[Edited at 2017-06-14 14:55 GMT]
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Peter Shortall
Peter Shortall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Romanian to English
+ ...
Strange that they didn't consult you in advance Jun 14, 2017

Jenny Forbes wrote:

My response to such requests for rate reductions etc. is along the lines of "I'm sure you'll understand that it would not make good business sense for me to work for you at a reduced rate while having to turn down offers from other clients at my normal rate".


This is what I normally say to requests for reductions - I tell clients that it would be uneconomical for me to work at a lower rate because turning down higher-paid work could mean that I lose higher-paying customers for good. That's a very good reason that you could give, Sylvie.

Like Robert, I would be a bit sceptical about the agency's claim that it has signed agreements with its clients which impose a significant discount. I find it difficult to believe an agency would voluntarily cut its own income in that way with more than one long-term client (you mention that it's more than one). And even if it's true, why should you pay for that? You didn't ask them to do that, and they didn't consult you beforehand. Why didn't they consult their translators first to see if their suppliers would be willing to take a cut? That isn't guaranteed, and if their translators say no, they'll be stuck. I think that shows a serious lack of regard for their suppliers, and that alone suggests to me that the agency is not being well run - which gives you all the more reason to look for other clients. Surely one of the first rules of business must be that you have to find out what your suppliers will charge before setting the price of your product, not the other way round.

There may also be an element of what I call "moral manipulation" going on here, in that by presenting you with a fait accompli (the agency has committed itself to charging its clients less), the agency may be trying to make you feel that you will be making life difficult for it by continuing to charge your normal rate. From their point of view, they've accepted a cut, so why shouldn't you too? But as I said above, you weren't consulted and they seem to have taken it for granted that their translators will roll over, fearing that the agency may dump them if they don't.

A great deal of this "trying it on" behaviour goes on in business nowadays, but in my experience, the implied threat (accept our terms or we'll drop you) rarely if ever materialises. If it does, then it will be a chance for you to find better clients.

[Edited at 2017-06-14 15:57 GMT]


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:39
Member (2008)
Italian to English
They are gambling that you will say yes, so...... Jun 14, 2017

.... call their bluff and say no.

 
Thayenga
Thayenga  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 07:39
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
You are also a business Jun 14, 2017

Based on what you wrote here, I believe that your business plate is usually more than full. So if need be, you could afford to lose this agency as a client. The question is, can they afford to lose those clients who always ask for you to translate their projects?

Even if you might consider to accept such a rate cut - you definitely don't sound like you would - what will be their next request? Reduce your rate by 50%? This agency runs a business, so they should know about the costs
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Based on what you wrote here, I believe that your business plate is usually more than full. So if need be, you could afford to lose this agency as a client. The question is, can they afford to lose those clients who always ask for you to translate their projects?

Even if you might consider to accept such a rate cut - you definitely don't sound like you would - what will be their next request? Reduce your rate by 50%? This agency runs a business, so they should know about the costs such a business includes. Why would they think that you, as a freelancer, don't have bills to pay?

This "long-term relationship" line is old, very old. Just like in any life situation, sometimes it might be best to part. And the partnership is between you and the agency, and not between you and their clients. So why should you have to pay for their agreement with their clients to charge lower rates?

As our colleagues have already advised, I would suggest that you refuse their request in a polite manner (I'm sure you will be polite). If you don't stand your ground, then you just might end up losing that ground under your feet.

[Edited at 2017-06-14 18:29 GMT]
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Arianne Farah
Arianne Farah  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 02:39
Member (2008)
English to French
Also my go to on the rare occasions I'm asked for a rate reduction (usually prospective clients) Jun 14, 2017

Peter Shortall wrote:

Jenny Forbes wrote:

My response to such requests for rate reductions etc. is along the lines of "I'm sure you'll understand that it would not make good business sense for me to work for you at a reduced rate while having to turn down offers from other clients at my normal rate".


This is what I normally say to requests for reductions - I tell clients that it would be uneconomical for me to work at a lower rate because turning down higher-paid work could mean that I lose higher-paying customers for good. That's a very good reason that you could give, Sylvie.


Ditto, that's basically what I say : "My practice is well established and I book up all my available time week in, week out; going forward I don't foresee having any availability at a lower rate as my rates tend to increase rather than decrease over time. Please either maintain my current rates in your system or remove me from your database."


 
Ricki Farn
Ricki Farn
Germany
Local time: 07:39
English to German
Cuts from agencies' end clients Jun 14, 2017

I know that some agencies who work for huge clients (such as Microsoft or HP) are in fact forced to lower their rates towards those end clients or lose their business, e.g. through something called a "reverse auction" between potential translation vendors.

The same holds for groceries and big cleaning companies around here - there are so many that to keep existing business, they have to lower prices on a regular basis. Another industry that faces this "deflation" is phone companies.
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I know that some agencies who work for huge clients (such as Microsoft or HP) are in fact forced to lower their rates towards those end clients or lose their business, e.g. through something called a "reverse auction" between potential translation vendors.

The same holds for groceries and big cleaning companies around here - there are so many that to keep existing business, they have to lower prices on a regular basis. Another industry that faces this "deflation" is phone companies.

But: It is not my problem that some agencies prefer to work for huge monopolists rather than find themselves a new niche or a new set of clients. They can do that, I will not. Just as I will not accept a job selling zucchini or phone plans, or mopping the university buildings. They have their limits, I have mine, and those limits happen to diverge over time.

If a market segment's prices are in decline, nobody is forcing me, or you, to be in that market segment.
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Sylvie A. Martlew
Sylvie A. Martlew
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:39
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you! Jun 14, 2017

Many thanks to everyone for your advice, you've been very helpful.

I'm certainly not going to accept their arbitrary discount request, and as I am actually currently in the process of setting up a larger business working with direct clients, I could do with some breathing space in case the workflow from them dries up. I do have agency clients paying considerably more (smaller agencies, of course) and I'll by no means be struggling without the client in question, so I'll follow your
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Many thanks to everyone for your advice, you've been very helpful.

I'm certainly not going to accept their arbitrary discount request, and as I am actually currently in the process of setting up a larger business working with direct clients, I could do with some breathing space in case the workflow from them dries up. I do have agency clients paying considerably more (smaller agencies, of course) and I'll by no means be struggling without the client in question, so I'll follow your advice. I actually currently happen to be on holiday, which they know, so I have another couple of weeks to phrase my response.

And I realise that I've indeed been giving them too many freebies as is. I don't think I'll continue doing that.

Thanks again, I will let you know how this goes!
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Sylvie A. Martlew
Sylvie A. Martlew
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:39
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Sorted. Jul 4, 2017

So I've followed your advice and politely, yet firmly replied that I cannot agree to any arbitrary discounts. I also laid out the excellent value for money they've been getting from me in detail; their reply boiled down to "Oh well, we can't force you to do this, but we'll probably ask you again sometime."

The amount of work I'm getting from them hasn't slowed down in the slightest; in fact, I'm completely swamped with work. Guess I've called their bluff.

I think I'll b
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So I've followed your advice and politely, yet firmly replied that I cannot agree to any arbitrary discounts. I also laid out the excellent value for money they've been getting from me in detail; their reply boiled down to "Oh well, we can't force you to do this, but we'll probably ask you again sometime."

The amount of work I'm getting from them hasn't slowed down in the slightest; in fact, I'm completely swamped with work. Guess I've called their bluff.

I think I'll be raising my rates soon.

Thank you again for your opinions!
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Long-term client requesting a substantial discount







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