| Pages sur ce sujet: < [1 2 3] > | | Utilisateur | Auteur du fil: sognatrice No payment received from outsourcer - feedback needed |
|---|
Barbara Carrara 
Italie
Local time: 23:26
  Membre (2008)
anglais vers italien
+ ...
|
sognatrice wrote:
Signed on as the sole Italian > English translator* for a huge Italian project on fashion/lifestyle articles. While I really like the articles and the lady I’m working with who is heading the project is very nice and accommodating, I’m finding it extremely hard to continue working.
|
|
[...]
She owes me more than 2,000 euros at this point. I’ve also just realized she has never signed the contract I drew up for her (I know, I know). I just e-mailed her telling her “it’s a new quarter. New quarter, new rates" to keep up with the rising cost of living in NYC where I am based. This is fair on my part.
*I am honestly sick and tired of Italian business practices. I’ve lived, worked and studied in Italy and come from an Italian family so am all too familiar with this. I don’t know, but in the U.S. we don’t start a project without a) having funds available to pay subcontractors and b) don’t take months to pay. I give this woman a break when promised the guarantee of steady paid work and it bit me in the ass.
[Edited at 2012-07-10 15:58 GMT] [/quote]
Hi
I feel I am missing something here.
You wrote that YOU drew up the contract for her? (That's unusual, isn't it?)
She did not sign it, but you signed hers. Correct?
So, what about HER business proposition to you? What were the terms ― including payment terms ― you agreed to?
When have you started working on this assignment? And you did in spite of the lady in question not agreeing in writing to your terms?
Why agree to a flat rate for a five-month period and a per-word rate afterwards? Is it just because she "is very nice and accommodating", or because she promised "steady paid (!?) work"?
Also, I am fairly sure that, having agreed to a rate (flat or per-word) in a signed contract, you cannot ask to be paid more after a three-month period, having realized that the cost of living is rising in NYC*.
I would never work with any potential client ― Italian or non-Italian ― claiming to be short of funds from the outset. Not even if he/she promises steady amounts of work.
Also, why are you mentioning 'subcontractors'? Isn't the agreement between you and this lady? Is there a third party you haven't mentioned?
I am afraid, I feel this has nothing to do with your client being Italian.
Good luck!
An (ugh) Italian colleague
* Why are you stating on your profile page that you are living in Italy, when in fact you do not? If you were living in Reggio Emilia, surely you could pay the lady a visit and discuss the issues at hand face to face.
PS Sorry about the messy quotes...
[Edited at 2012-07-11 08:16 GMT]
|  |  |
| | | | sognatrice
États-Unis
Local time: 17:26
italien vers anglais
+ ...
AUTEUR DU FIL |
Thank you for pointing out the oversight in my profile. I used to live in Reggio Emilia and never changed my location back. I will do so as soon as I finish this post.
In any case, this is most certainly an issue of her being Italian. Without getting into polemics (this is not what this thread is about), non-payment and late payment terms are endemic to Italy.
Let me clarify a few points:
- This woman is not an agency. She is a former model who is now a journalist and is writing a lifestyle and fashion website including articles about Chanel, Gucci, Armani, etc.
- At the beginning of this project, she told me she herself was short on funds but within a very short amount of time would be receiving funds from the above mentioned companies.
- *I* sent her my payment terms and my conditions which *she* accepted (this is perfectly reasonable as she is asking me for my help, not vice-versa).
- The 'pagamento a forfait' was also because for the first five months or so (being that the project was just starting), the number of words would be variable. After that period of time, I was guaranteed 36,000 words a month.
- Now that she is farming out the work to me and to another translator (without informing me of this until I demanded payment, no less), I am absolutely within my right to raise my rate. Contracts change all the time if both parties agree. It looks like she will agree to my raised rate from her most recent e-mail response to me.
- As of yesterday, she said she would make payment at 10 am Italy time and inform me ASAP. That's 4 am New York time. I haven't received any response and it's almost 2 hours later.
- If by the end of the day I receive nothing from her, I will most definitely be contacting a lawyer.
| | |
| | | | Diana Coada, BA ACIL
Royaume-Uni
Local time: 22:26
portugais vers anglais
+ ...
|
sognatrice wrote:
- Now that she is farming out the work to me and to another translator (without informing me of this until I demanded payment, no less), I am absolutely within my right to raise my rate. |
|
Sorry, no. You do not change your rates in the middle of a project.
| | | | sognatrice
États-Unis
Local time: 17:26
italien vers anglais
+ ...
AUTEUR DU FIL |
... you don't split the work between two service providers without previously informing one of the translators, thereby effectively reducing the workload by half.
It is common practice to make changes, add addendums, etc. to contracts when both parties agree to it. Changed contracts (because really, that's all this is--breach of contract) are admissable in any court of law as long as both parties agree to the change.
Therefore, if she accepts my new rates, it is absolutely lawful for me to do so. I gave her a SPECIFIC rate based on a SPECIFIC wordcount which she changed without my knowledge. It is abolutely 100% ethically, morally and legally correct for my rates to change accordingly. She is the one who brought about the change prompting my rate to increase, not me.
| | | | Tomás Cano Binder, CT
Espagne
Local time: 23:26
Membre (2005)
anglais vers espagnol
+ ...
| | Not really... perhaps | Jul 11, 2012 |
sognatrice wrote:
Therefore, if she accepts my new rates, it is absolutely lawful for me to do so. I gave her a SPECIFIC rate based on a SPECIFIC wordcount which she changed without my knowledge. It is abolutely 100% ethically, morally and legally correct for my rates to change accordingly. She is the one who brought about the change prompting my rate to increase, not me. |
|
Hm... In my opinion, it would be lawful to change the conditions if such an increase was stipulated in the contract as well, and I mean with a clear wording, something like "If the total wordcount commissioned by the Client in the so-and-so period, the per-word rate will be automatically increased to this-or-this amount, etc. etc."
All in all, I really think you should drop this customer, hope to be paid, and count your blessings if you recover your money.
| | | | sognatrice
États-Unis
Local time: 17:26
italien vers anglais
+ ...
AUTEUR DU FIL |
Exactly. I specifically stipulated, "for the first five months, a flat-rate of ___ will be charged, after which the per-word rate of ___ will be charged for a total of 36,000 words per month. If the word count per month after the flat-rate period ends should change for any reason, the per-word rate may be adjusted accordingly."
I am completely within my rights here. I know this for a fact.
| | | | Ty Kendall
Royaume-Uni
Local time: 22:26
Membre (2011)
hébreu vers anglais
| | I'm on your side but......... | Jul 11, 2012 |
sognatrice wrote:
Exactly. I specifically stipulated, "for the first five months, a flat-rate of ___ will be charged, after which the per-word rate of ___ will be charged for a total of 36,000 words per month. If the word count per month after the flat-rate period ends should change for any reason, the per-word rate may be adjusted accordingly."
I am completely within my rights here. I know this for a fact. |
|
Is this wording from the contract she didn't sign?
Do you have any emails in which she expressly agreed to the terms of this contract? If yes, it might be construed as a verbal agreement. Otherwise.... hmmmm.
| | | | Anne and Paolo Boidi
Pays-Bas
Local time: 23:26
Membre (2011)
italien vers anglais
+ ...
| | No more work, (try to) get payment, walk away. | Jul 11, 2012 |
This person's business ethics are not going to change anytime soon, and it's just going to stress you out.
Do not take any more work, period. She doesn't have the money to pay you, this is clear - if she did you would have already been paid. You know the same old story, we work in the same language pair so I'm sure we're on the same page here.
I know it's not easy with the promise of many thousands of Euros on the line but... you're probably not going to see all of that money unless you wait a long time or at worst lawyer up (and even then it's questionable, but I would certainly hook up with a lawyer ASAP to at least have them send a formal notice). I truly hope I'm wrong on this one, for your sake.
Okay, she didn't sign your contract, but has she admitted (in writing) to owing you the money? If so, this is to your advantage and will legally make her liable for paying those funds (or you seizing that amount from her in goods or otherwise... I don't really know what that entails but apparently I'm about to find out in 27 days due to being in a similar situation to yours a while back).
If by the grace of god she comes through with the entire payment now, don't take any more work unless it is paid up front.
Anyway, you're welcome to contact me via PM or email, I think we'd probably have a lot to talk about.
| | |
| | | | Diana Coada, BA ACIL
Royaume-Uni
Local time: 22:26
portugais vers anglais
+ ...
| | Sorry, Ty may be on your side, but I'm not | Jul 11, 2012 |
1. She said from the beginning she didn't have enough funds (run away clue no.1)
2. She ''promised 36000 words a month'' (clue no.2)
3. She made no payments to you to date (clue no.3)
4. She did not sign the contract you sent her (clue no.4)
5. You changed the rates according to a contract that has never been signed (???)
6. She agreed to the new rates (of course she agreed, she also promised 36000 words a month, remember?)
Why would you deliberately do this to yourself?
| | | | urbom
Royaume-Uni
Local time: 22:26
allemand vers anglais
+ ...
| | Still wondering (from previous page) | Jul 11, 2012 |
Even with the OP's additional information on this page, I'm still wondering:
urbom wrote:
Have you actually sent any invoices to the client? Or have you just been waiting for her to send payment? |
|
| | | | sognatrice
États-Unis
Local time: 17:26
italien vers anglais
+ ...
AUTEUR DU FIL |
Yes, I have sent invoices but have received the same response of "I'm waiting for my backers to pay me until I can pay you."
| | | | Maaike van Vlijmen
Royaume-Uni
Local time: 22:26
Membre (2009)
italien vers néerlandais
+ ...
| | Stop working with her | Jul 11, 2012 |
Hi Sognatrice,
Your post made me think back to the beginning of my freelancer career. Almost all my clients were and still are Italians. I agree their payment policies are often annoying. However, I managed to find reliable clients who always pay on time (even if, for some, it is after 90 days - why do Italians do that??). You have to get rid of this lady, as she will prove (has proved!) to be a waste of your time and effort. I have worked for unreliable people like that and I soon found out it's best to move on as quickly as possible and try to find trustworthy, friendly and honest clients. Really, just give up on her. See it as a lesson learnt and move on. You're your own boss, nobody's forcing you. Be smart.
All the best!
| | | | Bernhard Sulzer
États-Unis
Local time: 17:26
 Partial member (2006)
anglais vers allemand
+ ...
|
Diana Coada wrote:
1. She said from the beginning she didn't have enough funds (run away clue no.1)
2. She ''promised 36000 words a month'' (clue no.2)
3. She made no payments to you to date (clue no.3)
4. She did not sign the contract you sent her (clue no.4)
5. You changed the rates according to a contract that has never been signed (???)
6. She agreed to the new rates (of course she agreed, she also promised 36000 words a month, remember?)
Why would you deliberately do this to yourself?
|
|
I agree wit Diana. I understand if you are making mistakes because you are inexperienced. But after all this advice, I hope you don't consider continuing this work.
Also, you did not address the "invoice" or "contract/payment terms" question posed by Barbara earlier. What does the valid contract say about when and how much you are supposed to get paid?
And thirdly, it's easy to say "I am contacting a lawyer". That will certainly be expensive, difficult, and will not result in any quick and full payments, especially if your client doesn't have the money. Did you consider any of my advice I posted earlier?
B
| | |
| | | | neilmac
Espagne
Local time: 23:26
Membre (2007)
espagnol vers anglais
+ ...
|
Diana Coada wrote:
1. She said from the beginning she didn't have enough funds (run away clue no.1)
2. She ''promised 36000 words a month'' (clue no.2)
3. She made no payments to you to date (clue no.3)
4. She did not sign the contract you sent her (clue no.4)
5. You changed the rates according to a contract that has never been signed (???)
6. She agreed to the new rates (of course she agreed, she also promised 36000 words a month, remember?)
Why would you deliberately do this to yourself?
|
|
Nothing further to add here really . Once bitten, twice shy. It's just unfortunate that the outstanding bill has been left to run up to such a considerable amount. I'd take Alex's advice and send her nothing until she pays at least a large part of what's due. And walk away ASAP thereafter.
| | | | sognatrice
États-Unis
Local time: 17:26
italien vers anglais
+ ...
AUTEUR DU FIL | | Surprise surprise.. | Jul 12, 2012 |
Surprise surprise!
Waited two mornings after being promised I would hear back from her yesterday morning Italian time. Nothing. Not a word.
Just sent a rather firm e-mail stating, "I need you to pay me all that is owed and as soon as possible. I do not accept payment split up into the next three months--pay me what is owed right now. In the meantime, I am contacting my lawyer as to remove my translations from your website. Since you have not paid me yet, they're my property and I will take them down.
I have waited for two days to hear from you (as promised yesterday), and as usual, have not heard a word regarding payment. After you pay me, I would like to walk away from this project.
I cannot finance your project. Would you yourself like to work for three months without any form of payment? I think not. You're a nice person, but I need to stop my professional relationship with you as of right now.
Expect to be hearing from my lawyer soon."
| | | | | Pages sur ce sujet: < [1 2 3] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » | | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | |
| No payment received from outsourcer - feedback needed | SDL MultiTerm Extract 2011 | Save time by automatically extracting terms. 15% off!
SDL MultiTerm Extract 2011 allows you to automatically create candidate term lists from your existing documentation. This removes the manual effort involved with traditional terminology creation, allowing you to rapidly add terms to SDL MultiTerm.
More info » |
| | memoQ translator pro 5.0 | Save 20% with memoQ today!
memoQ translator pro is the premium product for professionals. It is Kilgray's best-selling tool among freelance translators: you get all the functionality available in memoQ in your local environment plus the ability to work on remote servers.
More info » |
|
 |
The translation workplace 
Software comparison tool
